CBU-97 recognizes targets?

[Mauser55]

Hi, guys at first I'm sorry for my english. I'm not native speaker.

 

I tried recently bomb runs with CBU-97 and I found out that it "recognizes" targets. Simply when I'm attacking heavily armored convoy (6x T-80). CBU-97 bomblets attacks only one max two tanks in convoy. But when I'm attacking light armored convoy (6x BVP) CBU-97 bomblets attacking all BVP and destroys them. Drop was done pricesly in both cases at same conditions.

 

I didn't know CBU-97 can rocognize targets.

[Tholozor]

Yep, that's how the CBU-97 works.

 

[GGTharos]

It knows what is a probable target and what is not. It cannot recognize a target in the sense that it can distinguish between a T-80 and an M-1 for example.

 

Hi, guys at first I'm sorry for my english. I'm not native speaker.

 

I tried recently bomb runs with CBU-97 and I found out that it "recognizes" targets. Simply when I'm attacking heavily armored convoy (6x T-80). CBU-97 bomblets attacks only one max two tanks in convoy. But when I'm attacking light armored convoy (6x BVP) CBU-97 bomblets attacking all BVP and destroys them. Drop was done pricesly in both cases at same conditions.

 

I didn't know CBU-97 can rocognize targets.

[Mauser55]

It knows what is a probable target and what is not. It cannot recognize a target in the sense that it can distinguish between a T-80 and an M-1 for example.

 

I get it. But another weird thing happens to me. When T-80 convoy stops (disperse) sometimes CBU-97 drop directly to them is not reacting - not attacking. So I have theory :-D. What if all of this is not about armor on targets but heat signature of targets. Because T-80 is most modern russian tank so it is prevented from making significant heat signature so it is very hard to detect them and when they stops, engines are turn off so they dont make any heat signature and CBU-97 cant detect them? On the other hand light armored vehicles dont bother that much with heat signature so they can be easily detected.

[GGTharos]

It makes quite a big heat signature. Don't confuse things in a sim not working quite as they should with reality.

[Speed]

It makes quite a big heat signature. Don't confuse things in a sim not working quite as they should with reality.

 

I just wanted to take the time to say, again, even if they are not quite working 100% correctly yet, the BLU-108 in DCS is FREAKING AWESOME. I love using them. DCS is the first sim to really model them, right?

 

Anyway, I justed wanted to get that off my back... there's a lot of bitching going around on the forums, because things that are freaking awesome usually aren't worth discussing- why discuss something if there isn't much to fix with it? Anyway, the BLU-108 has got to be among the more impressive things that the ED team has put out recently... if they are reading this, I figured they could use an extra pat on the back :)

Edited February 14, 2012 by Speed

[GGTharos]

I do believe you're correct :)

 

I just wanted to take the time to say, again, even if they are not quite working 100% correctly yet, the BLU-108 in DCS is FREAKING AWESOME. I love using them. DCS is the first sim to really model them, right?

[PhoenixBvo]

I totally agree with Speed about the awesomeness of the weapon and its modeling.

 

I just had a problem with the aiming in CCRP mode:

• HOF set to 2600
  
• lined up with an armored column and SPI set in the middle of it
  
• the column was stationary
  
• approach flown level at about 9000 ft AGL
  
• the bomb pickled ok as the release cue crossed the pipper
  
• I watched it with F6 view going nicely at the SPI, but...
  
• as the BLU-108s deployed their parachutes they fell far short of the target and failed to find the vehicles
  
• there was no wind
  

Questions: Doesn't the CCRP computation take into account the submunition trajectories? It seems to have released the CBU-97 for a low drag trajectory. Have I missed something in the profile settings or HUD? Or should the pilot manually correct using the SPI? That seems a little inaccurate and missing the point of CCRP bombing...

 

Sorry, I didn't save the track. I'll see if I can reproduce this next flight.

[PhoenixBvo]

Oh sorry, I missed the other thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=85414 which notes exactly this point. Ok, never mind, it appears to be a known issue, so it's being worked on I hope...

[Mustang]

Another good explaination of the BLU-108 system by the makers themselves

 

[ShouldntBeInAPlane]

Another good explaination of the BLU-108 system by the makers themselves

 

 

that's awesome, I remember seeing that on future weapons

[Mauser55]

Nice THX

[KLR Rico]

Holy crap. I'm glad to be on the delivery side of the BLU-108, I'll tell you that much.

[wess24m]

Did I miss a update? I looked for the BLU-108 in the loadout and couldn't find it.

[joey45]

Try CBU 87/97

[MagnumHB]

More like 97/105. 87/103 have standard dumb bomblets.

[mjolner]

How they pack so much punch into a hockey puck is amazing.

 

Just a side thought because I am by no means a weapons expert, how effective are these against moving columns? From an armchair general perspective, I am keeping my tanks on the move. We saw how effective stationary or hull down armor was in the first gulf war. Doesnt seem like modern commanders would let their armor fall prey to this weapon. If there is/was an existing thread on this please point me in the right direction.

 

Wow nevermind, I sadly missed the discussion only a few threads down.

Edited February 16, 2012 by mjolner

[Agiel7]

Are the bomblets able to differentiate between a T-80 and a Lada Riva with a family inside? That's been on of the reasons I'm quite hesitant to use them in a built up area.

[Eddie]

Are the bomblets able to differentiate between a T-80 and a Lada Riva with a family inside? That's been on of the reasons I'm quite hesitant to use them in a built up area.

 

No. You shouldn't be using any CBU in a built up area, or anywhere in close proximity to friendlies or civillians for that matter. If you are engagine targets in the vicinity of friendlies or civillians 30mm, AGM-65, or PGM (GBU-38/12) are the way to go. And even the 500lb PGMs have a ~250m safety distance.

[159th_Viper]

....That's been on of the reasons I'm quite hesitant to use them in a built up area.

 

Guide to Multiservice procedures for Aviation operations in an Urban environment.

 

[ATTACH]53461[/ATTACH]

 

Generally, cluster munitions are appropriate for use in the urban

environment only in very limited circumstances. The area effects of the weapon

and relatively high dud rate of the submunitions often make them inappropriate

for use in densely populated areas because of their great potential for immediate

and persistent civilian collateral damage. If specific circumstances suggest the

use of cluster munitions, very careful consideration should be given to the

collateral damage likely to result.

[Tucano_uy]

No. You shouldn't be using any CBU in a built up area, or anywhere in close proximity to friendlies or civillians for that matter. If you are engagine targets in the vicinity of friendlies or civillians 30mm, AGM-65, or PGM (GBU-38/12) are the way to go. And even the 500lb PGMs have a ~250m safety distance.

 

DCS JTAC unfortunately seems to differ. Open one of the easy missionss in the ME and add some CBUs to the loadout. I was tasked to use them against the armored column

[Eddie]

DCS JTAC unfortunately seems to differ. Open one of the easy missionss in the ME and add some CBUs to the loadout. I was tasked to use them against the armored column

 

Yeah, it's a limitation of the sim, sadly (depending on how serious you are) RoE and the law of armed conflict isn't modelled.

 

Of course, as a pilot you don't have to do everything the JTAC tells you to do, you can say no you know. ;) But again sadly you can't tell the AI JTAC that a certain weapon is not appropriate for the target etc. Multiplayer and human AFAC/JTAC is the only way to go in this regard.

[MagnumHB]

Luckily, the series of 0s and 1s that form civilian traffic that blindly strays into a virtual combat area cannot try you for war crimes.

[Wolfie]

I get it. But another weird thing happens to me. When T-80 convoy stops (disperse) sometimes CBU-97 drop directly to them is not reacting - not attacking. So I have theory :-D. What if all of this is not about armor on targets but heat signature of targets. Because T-80 is most modern russian tank so it is prevented from making significant heat signature so it is very hard to detect them and when they stops, engines are turn off so they dont make any heat signature and CBU-97 cant detect them? On the other hand light armored vehicles dont bother that much with heat signature so they can be easily detected.

 

When I was in JROTC ( many years ago! ), my unit was connected to a National Guard Armor Company. We had one M60 Tank ( Vietnam Era ). We were warned never to step behind the tank when the engine was on, or we would be roasted. Engines on tanks are HOT! I doubt if turning the engine off for a minute or two would do much to mask its heat signature. Were talking red hot metal.

[Wolfie]

Yeah, it's a limitation of the sim, sadly (depending on how serious you are) RoE and the law of armed conflict isn't modelled.

 

Of course, as a pilot you don't have to do everything the JTAC tells you to do, you can say no you know. ;) But again sadly you can't tell the AI JTAC that a certain weapon is not appropriate for the target etc. Multiplayer and human AFAC/JTAC is the only way to go in this regard.

 

Were AMERICA! We don't follow no stin'kin rules. :thumbup: