Mauser55 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Hi, guys at first I'm sorry for my english. I'm not native speaker. I tried recently bomb runs with CBU-97 and I found out that it "recognizes" targets. Simply when I'm attacking heavily armored convoy (6x T-80). CBU-97 bomblets attacks only one max two tanks in convoy. But when I'm attacking light armored convoy (6x BVP) CBU-97 bomblets attacking all BVP and destroys them. Drop was done pricesly in both cases at same conditions. I didn't know CBU-97 can rocognize targets.
Tholozor Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Yep, that's how the CBU-97 works. REAPER 51 | Tholozor VFA-136 (c.2007): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3305981/ Arleigh Burke Destroyer Pack (2020): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313752/
GGTharos Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 It knows what is a probable target and what is not. It cannot recognize a target in the sense that it can distinguish between a T-80 and an M-1 for example. Hi, guys at first I'm sorry for my english. I'm not native speaker. I tried recently bomb runs with CBU-97 and I found out that it "recognizes" targets. Simply when I'm attacking heavily armored convoy (6x T-80). CBU-97 bomblets attacks only one max two tanks in convoy. But when I'm attacking light armored convoy (6x BVP) CBU-97 bomblets attacking all BVP and destroys them. Drop was done pricesly in both cases at same conditions. I didn't know CBU-97 can rocognize targets. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Mauser55 Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 It knows what is a probable target and what is not. It cannot recognize a target in the sense that it can distinguish between a T-80 and an M-1 for example. I get it. But another weird thing happens to me. When T-80 convoy stops (disperse) sometimes CBU-97 drop directly to them is not reacting - not attacking. So I have theory :-D. What if all of this is not about armor on targets but heat signature of targets. Because T-80 is most modern russian tank so it is prevented from making significant heat signature so it is very hard to detect them and when they stops, engines are turn off so they dont make any heat signature and CBU-97 cant detect them? On the other hand light armored vehicles dont bother that much with heat signature so they can be easily detected.
GGTharos Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 It makes quite a big heat signature. Don't confuse things in a sim not working quite as they should with reality. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Speed Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) It makes quite a big heat signature. Don't confuse things in a sim not working quite as they should with reality. I just wanted to take the time to say, again, even if they are not quite working 100% correctly yet, the BLU-108 in DCS is FREAKING AWESOME. I love using them. DCS is the first sim to really model them, right? Anyway, I justed wanted to get that off my back... there's a lot of bitching going around on the forums, because things that are freaking awesome usually aren't worth discussing- why discuss something if there isn't much to fix with it? Anyway, the BLU-108 has got to be among the more impressive things that the ED team has put out recently... if they are reading this, I figured they could use an extra pat on the back :) Edited February 14, 2012 by Speed Intelligent discourse can only begin with the honest admission of your own fallibility. Member of the Virtual Tactical Air Group: http://vtacticalairgroup.com/ Lua scripts and mods: MIssion Scripting Tools (Mist): http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=98616 Slmod version 7.0 for DCS: World: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80979 Now includes remote server administration tools for kicking, banning, loading missions, etc.
GGTharos Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 I do believe you're correct :) I just wanted to take the time to say, again, even if they are not quite working 100% correctly yet, the BLU-108 in DCS is FREAKING AWESOME. I love using them. DCS is the first sim to really model them, right? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
PhoenixBvo Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 I totally agree with Speed about the awesomeness of the weapon and its modeling. I just had a problem with the aiming in CCRP mode: HOF set to 2600 lined up with an armored column and SPI set in the middle of it the column was stationary approach flown level at about 9000 ft AGL the bomb pickled ok as the release cue crossed the pipper I watched it with F6 view going nicely at the SPI, but... as the BLU-108s deployed their parachutes they fell far short of the target and failed to find the vehicles there was no wind Questions: Doesn't the CCRP computation take into account the submunition trajectories? It seems to have released the CBU-97 for a low drag trajectory. Have I missed something in the profile settings or HUD? Or should the pilot manually correct using the SPI? That seems a little inaccurate and missing the point of CCRP bombing... Sorry, I didn't save the track. I'll see if I can reproduce this next flight. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator
PhoenixBvo Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Oh sorry, I missed the other thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=85414 which notes exactly this point. Ok, never mind, it appears to be a known issue, so it's being worked on I hope... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator
Mustang Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Another good explaination of the BLU-108 system by the makers themselves
ShouldntBeInAPlane Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Another good explaination of the BLU-108 system by the makers themselves that's awesome, I remember seeing that on future weapons
KLR Rico Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Holy crap. I'm glad to be on the delivery side of the BLU-108, I'll tell you that much. i5-4670K@4.5GHz / 16 GB RAM / SSD / GTX1080 Rift CV1 / G-seat / modded FFB HOTAS
wess24m Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Did I miss a update? I looked for the BLU-108 in the loadout and couldn't find it.
joey45 Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Try CBU 87/97 The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
MagnumHB Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 More like 97/105. 87/103 have standard dumb bomblets.
mjolner Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) How they pack so much punch into a hockey puck is amazing. Just a side thought because I am by no means a weapons expert, how effective are these against moving columns? From an armchair general perspective, I am keeping my tanks on the move. We saw how effective stationary or hull down armor was in the first gulf war. Doesnt seem like modern commanders would let their armor fall prey to this weapon. If there is/was an existing thread on this please point me in the right direction. Wow nevermind, I sadly missed the discussion only a few threads down. Edited February 16, 2012 by mjolner
Agiel7 Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Are the bomblets able to differentiate between a T-80 and a Lada Riva with a family inside? That's been on of the reasons I'm quite hesitant to use them in a built up area.
Eddie Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Are the bomblets able to differentiate between a T-80 and a Lada Riva with a family inside? That's been on of the reasons I'm quite hesitant to use them in a built up area. No. You shouldn't be using any CBU in a built up area, or anywhere in close proximity to friendlies or civillians for that matter. If you are engagine targets in the vicinity of friendlies or civillians 30mm, AGM-65, or PGM (GBU-38/12) are the way to go. And even the 500lb PGMs have a ~250m safety distance. Spoiler Intel 13900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 6400Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL
159th_Viper Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 ....That's been on of the reasons I'm quite hesitant to use them in a built up area. Guide to Multiservice procedures for Aviation operations in an Urban environment. [ATTACH]53461[/ATTACH] Generally, cluster munitions are appropriate for use in the urban environment only in very limited circumstances. The area effects of the weapon and relatively high dud rate of the submunitions often make them inappropriate for use in densely populated areas because of their great potential for immediate and persistent civilian collateral damage. If specific circumstances suggest the use of cluster munitions, very careful consideration should be given to the collateral damage likely to result. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Tucano_uy Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 No. You shouldn't be using any CBU in a built up area, or anywhere in close proximity to friendlies or civillians for that matter. If you are engagine targets in the vicinity of friendlies or civillians 30mm, AGM-65, or PGM (GBU-38/12) are the way to go. And even the 500lb PGMs have a ~250m safety distance. DCS JTAC unfortunately seems to differ. Open one of the easy missionss in the ME and add some CBUs to the loadout. I was tasked to use them against the armored column
Eddie Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 DCS JTAC unfortunately seems to differ. Open one of the easy missionss in the ME and add some CBUs to the loadout. I was tasked to use them against the armored column Yeah, it's a limitation of the sim, sadly (depending on how serious you are) RoE and the law of armed conflict isn't modelled. Of course, as a pilot you don't have to do everything the JTAC tells you to do, you can say no you know. ;) But again sadly you can't tell the AI JTAC that a certain weapon is not appropriate for the target etc. Multiplayer and human AFAC/JTAC is the only way to go in this regard. Spoiler Intel 13900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 6400Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL
MagnumHB Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Luckily, the series of 0s and 1s that form civilian traffic that blindly strays into a virtual combat area cannot try you for war crimes.
Wolfie Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I get it. But another weird thing happens to me. When T-80 convoy stops (disperse) sometimes CBU-97 drop directly to them is not reacting - not attacking. So I have theory :-D. What if all of this is not about armor on targets but heat signature of targets. Because T-80 is most modern russian tank so it is prevented from making significant heat signature so it is very hard to detect them and when they stops, engines are turn off so they dont make any heat signature and CBU-97 cant detect them? On the other hand light armored vehicles dont bother that much with heat signature so they can be easily detected. When I was in JROTC ( many years ago! ), my unit was connected to a National Guard Armor Company. We had one M60 Tank ( Vietnam Era ). We were warned never to step behind the tank when the engine was on, or we would be roasted. Engines on tanks are HOT! I doubt if turning the engine off for a minute or two would do much to mask its heat signature. Were talking red hot metal. "Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards "I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.
Wolfie Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Yeah, it's a limitation of the sim, sadly (depending on how serious you are) RoE and the law of armed conflict isn't modelled. Of course, as a pilot you don't have to do everything the JTAC tells you to do, you can say no you know. ;) But again sadly you can't tell the AI JTAC that a certain weapon is not appropriate for the target etc. Multiplayer and human AFAC/JTAC is the only way to go in this regard. Were AMERICA! We don't follow no stin'kin rules. :thumbup: "Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards "I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.
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