Does anyone else agree?

[Severum]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and to me it makes sense. DCS continues to release single module aircraft, than release a new Flaming Cliffs to allow those aircraft to be used in conjunction with the rest of the Lock On aircraft.

 

Now, lets look at it this way. What if, DCS built a bunch of aircraft, for example, fully clickable cockpits with amazing models, like KA-50, A-10C, and P-51. Now, if they included, say the rest of the aircraft from the original game with the same amount of detail and included other aircraft and so on. Like release a package like these.

 

KA-50

A-10C

P-51

SU-27

SU-33

Mig-29

F-15C

SU-25

SU-25T

F-16/F-18/F-22 or whatever

 

and sell the whole package for say $120. Maybe $150.

 

I would be a lot more tempted to buy it if they did it that way. Releasing a different plane for $60 and then releasing a FC update for another $30 or whatever kind of makes me mad.

 

Am I the only one who thinks this? If they were to release all these as separate modules it would cost well over $500 for them all. Not including FC updates and what not.

 

Bad enough FC3 has a much better amazing looking F-15C model of which I am tempted to buy.

 

I dont know... Just my thoughts on it.

[SkateZilla]

the FC3 F-15C model is already part of DCSWorld. Same with teh F-15E

[-Mop-]

to make the cockpits fully clickable and and so on would absolutey exceed their manpower, money resources and so on... i think its ok to pay the current price for a module i really like... the problem is that you wouldn´t have the time and energy to learn everything about every planes´ specialty... normally we all have to go to work or school, have kids and familiy - a real life, i mean... so in my opinion its ok to choose the plane(s) you like to fly perfectly and forget about the rest...

 

The only fear i have is that if they throw plane by plane on the market, they will forget about patching and bugg-elimination...:smartass:

[Wichid]

So basically you're asking for a discount?

 

If I were ED I would think that bundling study sims together would be bad for adoption. It takes a fairly serious amount of effort to learn a single airframe properly.

[ishtmail]

Severum, visit Sim market and check prices for individual aircraft. Better modeled airplanes cost 30, 40 USD. For instance, MILVIZ F15E for FSX costs well over 50 USD.

 

What I'm trying to say is that this is perfectly normal pricing for higher quality stuff.

 

 

Another aspect to think about that was elsewhere discussed: a DCS plane (like A10C) takes well over one year to develop, and if the price is set at 40 USD, over 10.000 copies of this airplane need to be sold for the developer to brake even (and this number is probably very underestimated).

 

Your pricing idea is of course nicer for you, the buyer, but a company like ED just can't afford it - they would go bankrupt in a few months with that approach.

 

I doubt that 5x more people would buy DCS products if the price was reduced to 1/5 per airplane, as you suggest.

 

Personally, I prefer having ED around and doing the highest quality stuff possible, and I'm more than happy giving them 50-100 USD each year for new airplanes, new modules and whatnot.

 

 

And finally: as the development of each DCS airplane (A10C fidelity, not FC3) is so long, your expenses to ED really aren't that much, are they? FirstPersonShooter players pay more than that to Treyarch, the developer of the CallOfDuty franchise (where one CoD game comes out each year, and it always costs 60USD).

 

And to make things even more in favor for ED: just to really get the hang of a DCS quality airplane, such as A10C, over a hundred hours of gaming time is needed. And then the real fun begins when you go online. Compare this to 6 hours of game time for each CoD game, and then remember that A10C cost you 40 bucks while CoD cost you 60. 200 hours for 40$, 6 hours for 60$. I think DCS planes are maybe even too cheap, considering how much time you can spend on them, compared to a CoD game.

[Eight Ball]

it would cost well over $500 for them all.

Honestly, to have all these aircraft at DCS level I'd pay that price without flinching. Totally worth it.

 

Also, with all due respect, I'm not sure you realise the amount of work needed to achieve a module like the Blackshark or the Hog.

 

If you count an average of 2 years per module (which is shorter than the present time frame) it would take roughly 12 years to ED to complete that list. Spending 12 years on a product to only charge $150 doesn't make any sense.

 

IMHO, the price tag is fair right now. If you compare the numbers of hours an average simmers will spend on these module to their price, DCS is probably one of the cheapest game on the market.

 

I'd be ready to pay €80 for each module but that would mean no more BS2-payware patch-like joke then.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Eight Ball

[outlawal2]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and to me it makes sense. DCS continues to release single module aircraft, than release a new Flaming Cliffs to allow those aircraft to be used in conjunction with the rest of the Lock On aircraft.

 

Now, lets look at it this way. What if, DCS built a bunch of aircraft, for example, fully clickable cockpits with amazing models, like KA-50, A-10C, and P-51. Now, if they included, say the rest of the aircraft from the original game with the same amount of detail and included other aircraft and so on. Like release a package like these.

 

KA-50

A-10C

P-51

SU-27

SU-33

Mig-29

F-15C

SU-25

SU-25T

F-16/F-18/F-22 or whatever

 

and sell the whole package for say $120. Maybe $150.

 

I would be a lot more tempted to buy it if they did it that way. Releasing a different plane for $60 and then releasing a FC update for another $30 or whatever kind of makes me mad.

 

Am I the only one who thinks this? If they were to release all these as separate modules it would cost well over $500 for them all. Not including FC updates and what not.

 

Bad enough FC3 has a much better amazing looking F-15C model of which I am tempted to buy.

 

I dont know... Just my thoughts on it.

 

Actually, no I don't agree with this simply because our demographic does not support it. There are not enough flight simmers to make that kind of busines model work. Remember that this is a niche market so not as many people buying in the first place.. Couple that with the fact that these kinds of sims are time and resource intensive... IE it costs a lot of money to employ enough good programmers to keep us in planes/helicopters etc. These folks need to make enough money to be self sustaining...

 

Keep in mind that FC3 includes many more planes and such because they are not as detailed as the full fidelity aircraft such as BS and A-10 so not nearly as much time / effort to complete.

 

Personally I am amazed that they provide the level of detail that they do (BS2 and A-10 especially) at such a reasonable price... If it wasn't for ED we would be without real sims today... Without the cash they would go the way of Microprose and others like them so I am more than willing to pay for modules based on their current pricing strategy...

[sobek]

Releasing a different plane for $60 and then releasing a FC update for another $30 or whatever kind of makes me mad.

 

You can't be serious. Do you have any idea how many man-hours go into a DCS plane? These are highly qualified people at work here, it's actually a wonder that modules cost as little as they do.

[NineLine]

You can't be serious. Do you have any idea how many man-hours go into a DCS plane? These are highly qualified people at work here, it's actually a wonder that modules cost as little as they do.

 

Excatly!

 

[robert123456]

Even if you look at it at a software/game perspective i get a lot more hours, fun, challenge from the dcs a10c than with lets say x favorite game. Both are great things but the a10 is still my choice and will be for a lot more time, besides it took me to learn the a10 the same ammount of hours that it would take to complete most more expensive games and i still get to enjoy as long as i wont and is always different.

 

So i agree with most that the price is just right for what you get.

[Flia]

40-60 dollars price range is very fair price for quality modeled aircraft like A-10 i think.

[Witchking]

.......it was 60$ when it got released. I bought it at release. Not 40$ but 60$ is fair when console games cost the same.

[Dusty Rhodes]

For the amount of stimulation from a simulation (rhyme on purpose LOL) I would pay twice the price they charge now. But I am a Fanatic. Doubling the price would cut sales tremendously. I think we are fortunate to pay what we pay for each release. To understand the amount of man hours it takes and the resoureces it takes and the availability of public information for one of these sims in mind boggling. Count your blessings and rethink your opinion if you take into consideration that last sentence I just wrote.

[jaroslas]

I strongly disagree and as wichid said you just want a discount which is okay, but it also means you want from ED to do more work for less money. The sim market is already small to allow this. :doh:

 

These days you just cant work (pay people) on big project (X dcs level planes) on small market with big question about revenue in future... it would be suicide.

 

I have better idea:

 

ED will continue in their current works and simultaneously they could allocate one man to prepare rough plan for kickstarter-like projects. In other words for example first side project would be flanker on kickstarter consists of some kind of stages:

 

1. AFM+6DOF for xxx$ funds

2. DCS level systems simulated for another xxx$ funds

 

Or kickstarter Maps:

 

1.Korea (for example)

2.Put your favorite place

 

Or kickstarter for technology advancment:

 

1.Dynamic campaign

2.Whatever

 

This way we can have opportunity to get modules we want. To put long story short, let our wallets decide... :)

Edited November 28, 2012 by jaroslas
Just typos.

[ApoNOOB]

Let's say we live in fantasy land where rainbows shine and everyone is rich and happy.

 

Now EA, Activision/Blizzard or any other big publisher decides to get into flight sims. How long do you think they would need to get that list done on a DCS-like level?

 

Back to reality: I think it is just unreasonable for a small company like ED to get this much work done and still be able to pay the employees. (I am not sure HOW small they are to be honest but that's what I hear often around here)

 

Just how long would you want to wait for that product? And also would that mean that ED finishes products that they can't release till they have "the whole package" done?

 

Not to say that I wouldn't buy one day a full package of everything that ED has released so far. Would be a good gift to get someone who is somehow interested but not dedicated into sims. :)

 

But overall this doesn't look well thought out to me and I dont even have any knowledge about the enonomic side of things. I will leave that to others. :)

[ilikepie]

disagree.

 

ED are running a sustainable business in a fluctuating economic environment

with out having to resort to gimmicky add-ons.

 

it's a fine balance to get it right and you can't please everyone all the time. Keep an eye out for sales and buy whatever modules you want then. That way you get what you feel is good value for money and the Devs can pay the bills and feed the kids with the pricing as is, the rest of the time.

 

win-win:thumbup:

 

my 2c worth :smilewink:

[Darkwolf187]

Let's say we live in fantasy land where rainbows shine and everyone is rich and happy.

 

Now EA, Activision/Blizzard or any other big publisher decides to get into flight sims.:)

 

Why do you wreck my happy fantasy land with such a mental image? :)

 

EA or Activision could do nothing but wreck the flight sim niche. The depth sims that ED does just can't be replicated on a console, and to be frank, those giants care nothing for a franchise that can't be shoehorned onto a console.

 

Gods, considering what Blizzard did to Diablo 3, I likely won't buy another Blizzard game again.

[robert123456]

Yes i think we are very lucky big publishers dont care about this market, or else the most realistic we would get is tom clancys hawx or battlefield 3. Many game genres died in the hands of publishers and many other live in the hands of independent studios.

[roob]

I would be a lot more tempted to buy it if they did it that way. Releasing a different plane for $60 and then releasing a FC update for another $30 or whatever kind of makes me mad.

 

Am I the only one who thinks this? If they were to release all these as separate modules it would cost well over $500 for them all. Not including FC updates and what not.

 

Like sobek wrote... Do you have any idea how much work is put into a single aircraft?

 

I wouldn't say you're alone... But I'd say it's a greedy thought.

[Hawk_5]

Am I the only one who thinks this?

 

Sure looks that way.

 

I agree with the responses above. The current pricing is very reasonable when you consider the amount of work involved.

[Ripcord]

You can't be serious. Do you have any idea how many man-hours go into a DCS plane? These are highly qualified people at work here, it's actually a wonder that modules cost as little as they do.

 

What you say is surely true, but cost is cost; it has no bearing on market demand. If you can build these for $2 per aircraft and charge $60, then do it -- if that what the market is willing to pay. If it costs $100 per product, that doesn't mean you can charge that much -- it means you cannot efficiently (cost-effectively) produce the goods. Mananging these costs is critical in their business, clearly, and I suspect ED is very good at leveraing gov't contracts, etc., to absorb much of the initial development expenses. Many here suspect that is a major factor in deciding which aircraft to produce next.

 

Remember the 4 P's of marketing: Marketing is coming up with the right product at the right price, and placing it in the right distribution channels and then promoting it. Choosing what to make/build/sell and how to go to market with it is probably more important than the pricing policy, but we can debate that. Not everybody is going to have the same demand curve for the product, which means even at the optimum price point, you won't reach everybody who might want the product. Just the way it goes.

 

Let's also remember that we all frequent this forum because we are all fans of the product, and we are generally happy to pay the market price -- but it doesn't mean that applies to literally EVERYBODY out there.

 

EDIT: On the subject of cost, I will add this short comment. ED was very wise to open the sim up to third party developers, and in time, we will see which of them turn out to be cost-effective in bringing a quality product to market. I suspect we might see several promising projects drop off because of cost-overruns.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Ripcord

[lokitexas]

I can probably count on one hand that amount of games I purchased for sub $60 that I have played and enjoyed as much as a DCS module.

 

Looking at money spent + time spent enjoying the purchase = DCS modules are more than a bargain. Honestly, I would spend $60+ for a DCS module, because I know I will get my monies worth 100 times over.

 

Also, the bundle idea wont fly. Aside from the fact that it would take take time and money to make, bundle and release, it would also give people things they are not wanting. Someone who only wants a few aircraft on a list would shy away from a $120 purchase if they couldnt care less for most of them. That same person might pay $40 for the one aircraft they really like.

 

I like the fact you can buy them seperatly. Buy what you want, leave what you dont.

[Leysard]

When I think at the amount of money that some of us invested for Hardware to plainly enjoy the sim (HOTAS, TrackIr, Screens, helmet/Mic) and I don't know what else, I think that the price of the Sim could be higher.

 

I would of been ready to pay little more and have less crashes for example:pilotfly:

[Wolf Rider]

when people who do their art/ hobby/ work, for the workmanship the joy the passion of doing so, forget that and go chasing the buck... they usually end up hating their own works

Edited December 1, 2012 by Wolf Rider

[Kuky]

erm... you propose $150 for so many DCS STANDARD modules? You are crazy :D