DCS World - An Overview Video

[Eddie]

Well the AGM-88E AARGM is entering service for the Hornet this year. MUCH more capable than the HARM, with some fantastic capabilities. No more SAMs hiding by switching off their RADARs.

[NRG-Vampire]

Well the AGM-88E AARGM is entering service for the Hornet this year. MUCH more capable than the HARM, with some fantastic capabilities. No more SAMs hiding by switching off their RADARs.

 

IMHO most important specification of an anti radar missiles is the range ...from pilots perspective

if you must fly close to a SAM site, then you will suck

[Eddie]

It doesn't matter how far away you can launch a weapon from if it can't hit the target anyway.

[sobek]

It doesn't matter how far away you can launch a weapon from if it can't hit the target anyway.

 

Well, the point of SEAD is to keep the radars turned off, not hitting them. Of course it's a nice bonus if the missile will hit the radar anyway. :)

[NRG-Vampire]

It doesn't matter how far away you can launch a weapon from if it can't hit the target anyway.

 

thats a conjecture and depends of many aspects

but max range is a physical fact

Edited January 18, 2013 by NRG-Vampire

[falcon_120]

It is very difficult to say, as Eddie says non of us know how capable is. It means nothing

a 200 km+ range if it has the precision of a scud launcher. What it really matter are the electronics that hides below and how capable they are of reaching the target with precission.

 

Although it is true that this doesn't matter in DCS as all ARM hit with pinpoint accuracy.

[Kaktus29]

the biggest news is of course the Su-27SM .. i mean we are talking about 4+ generation fighter... and if this plays out right this will be a game changer as it should be..

 

people talk about what will be the difference, R-77 is used in some servers already. ..yeah on Su-27.. there is a huge difference in Su-27 and Su-27SM .. its like comparing F-15A( the basic model from the 70's with the F-15D) .. there is no chance for the F-15C in BVR in my view.. F-15C is from the 90's.. so the tables will be changed indeed.. i hope that doesn't scare the western fans of using F-15 and doing "easy kills" ..but if simulated properly the Su-27SM should be able to "see and lock and maintain lock much easier than F-15C) .. the missiles never were the most important aspect of BVR and other fights.. its all about electronics, detection, ECM suite etc.. and Su-27SM is at least half a generation ahead of the F-15C model if not 1 generation ..

 

This will be sweet for the russian fans.. and i can already hear the grumbling of the western fans)) lol.. hei not fair.. how come he locks me before i can.. oh man, the Irbis radar here we come )) ..

 

What i would rather like to see is much more controlled servers with independent people who will "manage" the conflict.. like, you have points, and you can spend this point on hardware, (buying planes, missiles, rockets, choppers, AWACS, ships etc..) then you spend them and position them as you as the commander thinks this is wise.. so, no knowledge of the enemy composition whatsoever .. one team is RED another BLUE (Red needs to take a strategic point of the BLUE, BLUE needs to defend it) ..there is time limit to achieve this (4-6 hours ) and off you go..

 

Than you can do all kind of tactics like buying lots of SAMs and thus rendering the Air superiority missions of the enemy void and null (since the enemy will have many fighters with valuable points spent on air-to-air missiles instead of SEAD) .. thus making the mission less efficient, ..)

 

And some sort of system where your peers grade you on your commander ability..if you managed to do good, you get good reviews and become more "visible" on the MP server where you can be picked by other teams etc..

 

what do you think? ..

[sobek]

F-15C is from the 90's..

 

Nope. It received continuous upgrades. The FC version doesn't do it justice.

Edited January 18, 2013 by sobek

[Kaktus29]

of course it continued with the upgrades, just as the Su-27 did.. but we are talking about the original F-15 C-version C as in C.. not D, or C+, or C+++ ..etc

 

Su-27 in Lomac etc.. is actually the original Su-27 that barely had a functioning radar.. yet was pitted against a C version of F-15 that is much greatly improved in electronic warfare and detection than the original Su-27 .. so, finally we get some balance re-adjustment..

 

There is a reason why the USAF made the F-22, the Sukhois and Eurofighters improved to the point that F-15 is no more superior to them, but at best equal and at worst inferior ..

 

USAF always follows the doctrine of superiority which means having at least half a generation better equipment than the opponent.. so they stopped with improving the F-15 and went with the F-22 .. since F-22 will not be simulated in DCS (it can't be by a large margin because of the top secret technologies involved) we are going to have an environment where Russian jets finally show their prowess and rightfully so..

[falcon_120]

the biggest news is of course the Su-27SM .. i mean we are talking about 4+ generation fighter... and if this plays out right this will be a game changer as it should be..

 

people talk about what will be the difference, R-77 is used in some servers already. ..yeah on Su-27.. there is a huge difference in Su-27 and Su-27SM .. its like comparing F-15A( the basic model from the 70's with the F-15D) .. there is no chance for the F-15C in BVR in my view.. F-15C is from the 90's.. so the tables will be changed indeed.. i hope that doesn't scare the western fans of using F-15 and doing "easy kills" ..but if simulated properly the Su-27SM should be able to "see and lock and maintain lock much easier than F-15C) .. the missiles never were the most important aspect of BVR and other fights.. its all about electronics, detection, ECM suite etc.. and Su-27SM is at least half a generation ahead of the F-15C model if not 1 generation ..

 

This will be sweet for the russian fans.. and i can already hear the grumbling of the western fans)) lol.. hei not fair.. how come he locks me before i can.. oh man, the Irbis radar here we come )) ..

 

What i would rather like to see is much more controlled servers with independent people who will "manage" the conflict.. like, you have points, and you can spend this point on hardware, (buying planes, missiles, rockets, choppers, AWACS, ships etc..) then you spend them and position them as you as the commander thinks this is wise.. so, no knowledge of the enemy composition whatsoever .. one team is RED another BLUE (Red needs to take a strategic point of the BLUE, BLUE needs to defend it) ..there is time limit to achieve this (4-6 hours ) and off you go..

 

Than you can do all kind of tactics like buying lots of SAMs and thus rendering the Air superiority missions of the enemy void and null (since the enemy will have many fighters with valuable points spent on air-to-air missiles instead of SEAD) .. thus making the mission less efficient, ..)

 

And some sort of system where your peers grade you on your commander ability..if you managed to do good, you get good reviews and become more "visible" on the MP server where you can be picked by other teams etc..

 

what do you think? ..

 

Sorry but a modern F15C has many many things to compete with the su27SM.In the end, a fighter is as good as the weapon it is using(well,at least if they are of similar class,like the flanker and the eagle), and I can see a clear advantage between the Aim120C7/D over the r77,a missile is not even in active serive in important quantites. But anyway you're right that is going to be a new plane compared with the basic su27. And remeber that VEAO is doing the Eurofighter and someone else is doing the F22. Those two will be the king of the skies with the F22 being the clear best.

Edited January 18, 2013 by falcon_120

[Teknetinium]

of course it continued with the upgrades, just as the Su-27 did.. but we are talking about the original F-15 C-version C as in C.. not D, or C+, or C+++ ..etc

 

Su-27 in Lomac etc.. is actually the original Su-27 that barely had a functioning radar.. yet was pitted against a C version of F-15 that is much greatly improved in electronic warfare and detection than the original Su-27 .. so, finally we get some balance re-adjustment..

 

There is a reason why the USAF made the F-22, the Sukhois and Eurofighters improved to the point that F-15 is no more superior to them, but at best equal and at worst inferior ..

 

USAF always follows the doctrine of superiority which means having at least half a generation better equipment than the opponent.. so they stopped with improving the F-15 and went with the F-22 .. since F-22 will not be simulated in DCS (it can't be by a large margin because of the top secret technologies involved) we are going to have an environment where Russian jets finally show their prowess and rightfully so..

 

 

Just because Su-27SM has new MFDS will not make it better aircraft then F-15C in BVR. It will get equal to F-15C. Su-27SM has A2G capability , But I guise F-18 will fill that gap just fine. From what I can find Su-27SM has N001V or N001VP Radar not Irbis.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

the biggest news is of course the Su-27SM .. i mean we are talking about 4+ generation fighter...

 

By western standards Its a solid 4th gen fighter minus the+. This is a Mid life update to the existing flankers.

 

The plane your referring to is probbly the S-27SM3. Wich is equiped with a new radar (IRBIS). It exists as a retrofit for previous SM machines or built new.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Pilotasso

[Cali]

Cali: based on your location and posta you are heavily bisased towards american tech... nothing wrong being a patriot...but you just as almost all on this forum have very little real practical knowlage whats better..... even if you have/had been in the military

the kh31 is 4 years latter system compare to the agm88

 

yes the F18 is going to be fun as well...

I hope we will see servers with complex missions with only DCS aircraft... not that FC3 isnt fun but its a bit arcadey....

 

Based on your post you think one jet is going to change the hole game. Yes, I may be bias, but that's because I work on them and see what they can do. Me and most of this forum have little real practical knowledge and I guess you have more then most of us huh? You get your info from the same place most of the people get there stuff from, reading....books and internet?

 

of course it continued with the upgrades, just as the Su-27 did.. but we are talking about the original F-15 C-version C as in C.. not D, or C+, or C+++ ..etc

 

Su-27 in Lomac etc.. is actually the original Su-27 that barely had a functioning radar.. yet was pitted against a C version of F-15 that is much greatly improved in electronic warfare and detection than the original Su-27 .. so, finally we get some balance re-adjustment..

 

There is a reason why the USAF made the F-22, the Sukhois and Eurofighters improved to the point that F-15 is no more superior to them, but at best equal and at worst inferior ..

 

USAF always follows the doctrine of superiority which means having at least half a generation better equipment than the opponent.. so they stopped with improving the F-15 and went with the F-22 .. since F-22 will not be simulated in DCS (it can't be by a large margin because of the top secret technologies involved) we are going to have an environment where Russian jets finally show their prowess and rightfully so..

 

The F-22 was also made cause the F-15 is/was getting old. New technology was out so why not use it? Why not have something better then anyone else? Come on, the stuff you posted is nonsense. Why wouldn't you want that stuff? It's been said hundreds of time, the F-15 is missing a lot of features. I'm tired of hearing all this "balance" from people that fly a select few aircraft against a aircraft that is still missing a lot of stuff. Maybe you should read a book on the F-15, from the early stages of development and you'll see some features have been missing that even the F-15A had, but we still don't have them on this F-15C.

 

Read what Tek said and he is a hardcore Su-27 driver. A lot of this is gonna have to do with pilot skill.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Cali

[Kaktus29]

again, F-22, eurofighter all that is non-sense since most of the data is top secret.. i think it shouldn't belong to the DCS but to FC or other projects..

 

About F-15C, ..again, we are talking about C model, which is OLD model and cannot compare with 4++ generation fighters .. AT ALL..

 

You mistaken the F-15C with D or other improved and UP-TO-DATE versions.. of course the up-to-date version of F-15 can be more than an equal to even Eurofighter.. but it cannot be SUPERIOR anymore. .there is no such thing as superiority with fighting jets that are your peers.. that is why nations such as China, Russia are developing the 5th generation to be at least a peer (even if not totally equal to F-22) because if you are fighting a plane 1 generation ahead of you its no competition anymore..

 

So, to compare F-15C from the 90's with a plane from the 2007 is absurd ..

Again, the missile matters not, because the platform is old.. its like firing Amraam from Mig-21 against F-15C )) who do you think would win? ..F-15C without a doubt.. cuz F-15C would find out the Mig-21 sooner, launch his missile sooner cuz it would lock on him sooner and destroy him sooner.. who cares about the missile.. of course missile is important.. but the platform is even more..

 

What i'm saying is there is no superiority for the F-15C model at all compared to the Su-27SM, or god forbid the Eurofighter.. and this is what USAF wants when engaging an enemy-SUPERIORITY..

 

this is simulation here, which means we are stuck with what can be reasonably guess and simulated-and 5th generation do not apply..

 

This actually gives you the picture of why USAF started developing the 5th generation fighter in the first place..to make distance from the Sukhois 3-4 gen. fighters.. since if this is not made, you are fighting a battle that can SWING anyway.. and this is not good if your strategy is based on superiority and dominance of the skies..

 

about the missiles again, look Su-27SM armed with SARH missiles is more than able to destroy 8 targets at the same time, target them, launch, and track them and destroy them.. all without ACTIVE seeker head of the R77 or Amraam equivalent .. why?cuz of the much more advanced radar than what F-15C model uses.. put that with ECM suite, burn through range, and you have yourself a big problem flying the F-15 vs. Su27SM.. and rightfully so, anything less would be unbelievably stupid to do in a simulation which would not reflect reality..

Edited January 18, 2013 by Kaktus29

[Cali]

Do you know what the F-15C and D are?

[Hellfire257]

I detect bias.

[sobek]

About F-15C, ..again, we are talking about C model, which is OLD model and cannot compare with 4++ generation fighters .. AT ALL..

 

Again, you are wrong. The D model is a 2 seat variant. The C model has received continuous upgrades since its introduction. Same goes for the A-10C. The version modelled in DCS is suite 3. something. The one actually being used right now is suite 7 IIRC. The letter not changing does not imply that upgrades have halted.

[Hellfire257]

Indeed. The F-16 is a pretty good example of that with all the blocks. The latest block is a very different bird to the "F-16C".

[falcon_120]

 

 

about the missiles again, look Su-27SM armed with SARH missiles is more than able to destroy 8 targets at the same time, target them, launch, and track them and destroy them.. all without ACTIVE seeker head of the R77 or Amraam equivalent ..

 

I think you should rethink where you get this information from. I haven't ever read anything anywhere that backup those claims. I don't think that even the latest AESA radar can engage so many targets for SARH engament.

A tws engagement with active missile is another story.

[Kaktus29]

i know about the upgrades.. you do realise that ED can't upgrade the F-15 like the USAF does... they make a simulation of a certain model in this case the original C model from the 90's .. why are people so upset to hear that technology from the 90's is not the same as technology from the 2005? ...

 

again, i'm not claiming todays up to date f-15 which would be silent eagle with stealth characteristics is not able to stand on its own..i'm talking about the model that is simulated and that is one hell of an old plane compared to SM standard flanker..

 

i have no problem admiting when airplane is old and technologically obsolete.. like saying mig-21 can compare with f-16.. but when somebody criticizes the western planes in the same field vice-versa you go up in air )) lol..

 

whats next.. you will say f-4 phantom can fight su-27sm ?) will that make you happy..

 

jesus.. people are really jumpy today..

[sobek]

The point is that we don't know yet what suite of the F-15 will be modelled.

[Kaktus29]

that is a good point sobak.. we don't know what version of f-15c will be modelled.. i guess that depends on the good USA of F .. if they could give some info that could at least make some semblance of sense about the newer version of F-15 (at least 2000's onward versions) it would be great.. but i doubt it..

 

On the other hand, modelling the F-15C from the 90's would mean much higher fidelity simulation of the plane.. hmm..

[Eddie]

The things that were classified, or otherwise protected, on a Eagle from the 1990's will still be protected today.

 

Age alone is not a factor that will influence what can and can't be modelled.

[Teapot]

i know about the upgrades.. you do realise that ED can't upgrade the F-15 like the USAF does... they make a simulation of a certain model in this case the original C model from the 90's .. why are people so upset to hear that technology from the 90's is not the same as technology from the 2005? ...

 

whats next.. you will say f-4 phantom can fight su-27sm ?) will that make you happy..

 

jesus.. people are really jumpy today..

 

I'm sure no one's upset about anything old chap ... however you do appear to be spouting a lot of opinion disguised as fact. That's just steam roller tactics old boy, and not at all conducive to a civilized discussion.

 

Now, had you begun this rather rambling dissertation of yours by presenting verifiable numbers instead of making assumptions based on your subjective interpretation and extrapolation of some dubious reality, I'm sure most of us on the 'west' of the DCS divide would happily have acquiesced.

 

However, you should admit that your attempt at impartiality has been seriously eroded by an all too readily apparent "tone", as of one who has little expectation that there can be anything like a sporting attitude from the other once the balance (so you say) is turned.

 

Off course, that assumes that you're right in your extrapolation of available facts. I think on the other hand, that while the SU-27SM will be a magnificent jet, it won't be entirely as you surmise. But that is my opinion ...

 

Maybe that is your plan? Maybe if the SU-27SM performs on par with the F-15C you may wail and gnash your teeth and cry 'Oh Eagle Dynamics' most foul, stench of the virtual skies .. (wail, wail gnash, gnash) ... but didn't that which I foretold come to pass? This is not a realistic sim ... etc, etc ... :D

 

For me I enjoy both east and west and look forward to flying the both ... not because I wish to perpetuate any misguided sense of virtual patriotism, but because I like playing these fine simulations! Good day sir!

Edited January 18, 2013 by Teapot

[kam]

Good job on the video - it's just the sort of marketing and promotion of the DCS series that's been sorely lacking.