Aircraft Visibility

[leapingrodent]

I had this problem, too. I started using the labels as small dots as Cobra suggested until I got used to spotting aircraft then disabled them altogether. I find that it's best to look for movement rather than a specific shape. That being said, DCS itself could use some improvement in this matter, perhaps by making light reflect from aircraft or something. Yo-yo is probably right about higher resolution helping a lot, but higher resolution means a bigger impact on frame rate, so keep that in mind.

 

Edit: Also, be sure to keep your monitor screen clean... I've lost count of how many times I've been chasing a spec of dirt... :D

Edited September 25, 2014 by leapingrodent

[Vintovka]

I had this problem, too. I started using the labels as small dots as Cobra suggested until I got used to spotting aircraft then disabled them altogether. I find that it's best to look for movement rather than a specific shape. That being said, DCS itself could use some improvement in this matter, perhaps by making light reflect from aircraft or something. Yo-yo is probably right about higher resolution helping a lot, but higher resolution means a bigger impact on frame rate, so keep that in mind.

 

Ah I thought perhaps he meant lowering my resolution. I misunderstood. Yeah sadly my monitor is only 1080p. I have capability to run higher but do not wish to purchase a new monitor.

[leapingrodent]

I have capability to run higher but do not wish to purchase a new monitor.

 

Same here, best advice I can give is to just keep at it. Eventually you'll get used to it and be able to spot well. It's frustrating at times but worth it :)

[BuddhaOnP]

Falcon BMS seems to have a good solution to this called "smart scaling". It draws distant aircraft slightly larger to better match the resolution of a human eye IRL. Not so much that you notice though.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

I imagine that if we had good multiplayer we all would all be in the same boat so it wouldn't matter so much. But playing against the AI is unfair. The AI has no trouble seeing dots as long as they are in his field of view.

[Vintovka]

I imagine that if we had good multiplayer we all would all be in the same boat so it wouldn't matter so much. But playing against the AI is unfair. The AI has no trouble seeing dots as long as they are in his field of view.

 

Yeah this is very true. I will look into this dot mod tonight. I am converting to labels for the first time in years of DCS:pilotfly:

 

As far as MP I will keep in mind we are all in the same boat and try to get better.

[DayGlow]

Labels aren't a cheat, but a crutch to help with the fact that a flat 2D monitor of limited Rez in no way matches real life

[grifo]

same problem here.. I hope EDGE Will be a solution for that! Anyway sims like the old il2 or falcon were able yo manage this flawlessly with bigger "dots" at bigger distances.. That' all! I don't know why ED never fixed this issue.. It seems easy to give us a "big distant dots" option. Sometimes i have difficulties to spotting my tanker at 8-10 Nm.. Then fighters become in good visibility below 4-5 Nm

[SDsc0rch]

even "dots" aren't the answer - i know people are reaching for SOMEthing to help out - but if all we get is a "dot" that's not realistic either ---- you hear an aircraft, and you look up and find it - you can tell what color it is, see its wings and tell which direction its going

 

more information than just a mere "dot"

 

i agree that we need to do SOMEthing - and a "dot" is better than nothing - but.. just sayin

[audax]

Maybe it will be better with 27" 4k displays, we just need to upgrade our setups.

[ralgha]

Well I am glad I am not the only one. Would a bigger screen such as using Occulus Rift fix this issue? I don't have one yet but hopefully the consumer version will release soon with decent resolution.

I've done a decent amount of flying in DCS with the DK2 version (1080p screen). This problem is much worse in the Rift. The resolution is spread out over a wider FOV, the view has to be distorted to match the optics, and the DK2 screen's pentile subpixel arrangement means that the effective resolution is even less than 1080p. The end result is that things are very pixelated. You can't even read most of the cockpit instruments without leaning your head in close to them. Reading most of the numbers on HUDs is impossible without special tweaks to increase font size. The difference between a 2560x1440 monitor and the 1080p DK2 is absolutely vast. Oh, and forget about zooming in the Rift! You can't.

 

Even when the consumer version is released with a 1440p screen and better subpixel layout, I would definitely expect unaided visual target acquisition to be a much greater challenge in the Rift compared to a nice 2D monitor. I think it will be a while before HMDs catch up to monitors when it comes to this task.

 

Having said all that, flying in the Rift is still pretty awesome, and the natural 1:1 headtracking is a vast improvement over TrackIR - even if it is a bit more work to check your six without the amplification of head movement. The next couple of years should be very interesting!

[MBot]

I have the impression that visual acquisition/tracking is also highly depending on the target aircraft and how its LODs are set up. Some aircraft are harder to see than other and it does not depend on aircraft size but rather 3d modeling.

 

Another factor in the MiG-21 is the canopy texture. It is quite dark and dirty and therfore greatly reduces the visible contrast of a contact. While the canopy quiality of the MiG might be a realistic feature by itselfe, in the context of the challanges of visibility on a computer screen in general and DCS in particular, it is not exactly helpful.

Edited September 26, 2014 by MBot

[audax]

Let's start a petition for a clean canopy. Until then I need to use the white dot label mod...

[roob]

Let's start a petition for a clean canopy. Until then I need to use the white dot label mod...

 

Yeah the cockpit dirt and scratches are really overkill with the DCS-1-pixel-aircraft. Gun training was ridiculously hard. Meanwhile our aircraft exhaust is seen from miles and miles away. It's a nice effect but I think all these things combined puts the aircraft at a really unfair disadvantage in multiplayer.

[grifo]

I have the impression that visual acquisition/tracking is also highly depending on the target aircraft and how its LODs are set up. Some aircraft are harder to see than other and it does not depend on aircraft size but rather 3d modeling.

 

+1!

It seems allmost true... but don't know if it depens by the shape of the aircraft itself...

for sure sometimes an f-15 seems to be visible better than a tanker.

Question for modders: could be too hard to do some tweacking to patch this issue? Dot Labels couldn't be a solution, since they are not depending by visibility factors as clouds, sun position etc..:helpsmilie:

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

can anyone point me to the dots mod?

I hate icons really but I should try the dots mod and see ...

[swe_badger]

Yeah the cockpit dirt and scratches are really overkill with the DCS-1-pixel-aircraft. Gun training was ridiculously hard. Meanwhile our aircraft exhaust is seen from miles and miles away. It's a nice effect but I think all these things combined puts the aircraft at a really unfair disadvantage in multiplayer.

 

Although you are correct that the jet exhaust is a handicap in multiplayer, it still is realistic. A lot of old turbojet engines had similar exhaust trails back in the day, civilian and military alike DC-8/9 and many more. I prefer realism over balancing, especially when it comes to studysim-modules like the DCS series of modules. It can never be balanced when you pitch a cold-war dinosaur like the MiG-21 versus newer planes like the F-15/MiG-29/Su-27 etc. If you don't want disadvantage, pitch aircraft from the same era against each other or something.

[Roger Ramjet]

Citation from Steel Beasts Pro manual:

 

 

"If you don`t need glasses it is quite possible to spot a moving tank at distanses up to 300m with the naked eye.(...) At 3000 meters, a typical tank would subtend an angleof about 0,057degrees(about 1mil).To Make that tank appear as just a single pixel on your monitor at a resolution of 1600x1200 means that the field of view must be reduced to about 90degrees, far short of a human`s 170 degree FOV, and still the tank would appear as a single dot. Concersely, if you want a natural field of view of 180 degrees, the tank would be smaller than a single pixel at distances above just 1590 meters "

 

Anyone against smart scaling? (till we have 80 000 x 80 000 pixels gpu/monitors) ?

Edited September 26, 2014 by Roger Ramjet

[leapingrodent]

can anyone point me to the dots mod?

I hate icons really but I should try the dots mod and see ...

 

Here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/270020/

[grifo]

well.. I think till we'll have some improved 3d vision system (as a proper evolved oculus rift), artifacts are needed. I live 15 Km far from my city airport and I can see without difficulty civilian aircrafts taking-off or landing. I can't recognize type, but spotting is very easy also for smaller aircrafts. Proper scaling could be more realistic, but the way we perceive objects in space on a 2d monitor is not as in RL. Yes.. Smart scaling is the way.

Edited September 26, 2014 by grifo

[roob]

Although you are correct that the jet exhaust is a handicap in multiplayer, it still is realistic. A lot of old turbojet engines had similar exhaust trails back in the day, civilian and military alike DC-8/9 and many more. I prefer realism over balancing, especially when it comes to studysim-modules like the DCS series of modules. It can never be balanced when you pitch a cold-war dinosaur like the MiG-21 versus newer planes like the F-15/MiG-29/Su-27 etc. If you don't want disadvantage, pitch aircraft from the same era against each other or something.

 

I didn't mention any specific aircraft because it's a moot point. If an E-3 or KC-10 tanker was playable it would be able to see a mig-21 from anywhere (exaggeration) because of exhaustsmoke (which compared to reality is way too visible at distance) while it's still very hard [for the mig] to make out that huge aircraft (because of the dcs corrupt lod-modelling at distance).

[Eldur]

Citation from Steel Beasts Pro manual:

 

 

"If you don`t need glasses it is quite possible to spot a moving tank at distanses up to 300m with the naked eye.(...) At 3000 meters, a typical tank would subtend an angleof about 0,057degrees(about 1mil).To Make that tank appear as just a single pixel on your monitor at a resolution of 1600x1200 means that the field of view must be reduced to about 90degrees, far short of a human`s 170 degree FOV, and still the tank would appear as a single dot. Concersely, if you want a natural field of view of 180 degrees, the tank would be smaller than a single pixel at distances above just 1590 meters "

 

Anyone against smart scaling? (till we have 80 000 x 80 000 pixels gpu/monitors) ?

 

Now reduce the FOV to a more realistic 30° and have a plane which is bigger instead. In Il-2 BoS I can tell planes apart at 3-4km distance. It's all about the rendering. And there's absolutely no scaling in there. Probably EDGE will be the solution.

[Tango]

I already reported this to ED - it is going to be a major problem with air-to-air combat. It needs fixing.

 

Best regards,

Tango.

[grifo]

I already reported this to ED - it is going to be a major problem with air-to-air combat. It needs fixing.

 

Best regards,

Tango.

 

Tango For president!:thumbup:

[ff4life4]

I feel this issue really hits home with the WWII aircraft, as well as now the Mig-21. These aircraft really need good visibility of other aircraft, in order to fight well in. I have faith it will be fixed at some point.