Whats up with this? More Bugs?

[SkateZilla]

did you notice your FPS is higher when there is no Horizon in view. view distance is shorter..

 

 

but those objects, not only are they rendered, but they are shadowed :), what happens if you turn off shadows.?

Edited February 15, 2013 by SkateZilla

[Vlerkies]

Indeed, i found in my homebrew gamingmachines that informationspeedcapability is far more important than the fastest CPU or GFX card.

A double SSD with the OS and software seperated, instant request and writing together with at least 8Gb DDR3 1600Mhz or 4Gb DDR2 800Mhz RAM seems to eat any game on the market today regardless having the latest CPU or GFX card.

This is why pre-build machines and laptops usualy lack speed on high settings. Boycot DDR3 1333Mhz!!!

Another SSD inbound. No increase send address so I can pass on the invoice :lol:

[Kuky]

Very weird that 20km view distance and looking at Tbilisi shows only 231 objects?! Really, WTH? I don't know how to decypher this one... with more object cound and trigonometry in the scene, and your FPS is actually higher?

 

I don't know names for all the objects located in docks, beside cranes, there are these small boats which are animated now to rock on water, and lot of container objects... that's about the difference between towns inland and on coast that have docks.

 

if you really want to solve this, good luck to you :D you'll have to be very methodic and have scientific aproach... which takes lot of time

[71st_Mastiff]

its the container objects, I have the same issue when those are placed into the scene.

[Eldur]

I'm just getting a little bit OT here...

 

TZeer, do I see it right, your rig's specs are:

 

Intel® Core i7-3820 CPU @ 3.60GHz (8 CPUs), ~4.5GHz

16384MB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580

 

Mine are:

 

AMD Phenom II X4 965 @ 3.2GHz (4 cores)

8GB RAM

Radeon 6950 (2GB)

 

Now you graphics card is a tad better than mine, and your CPU is faster ("8 CPUs" = 4 cores + Hyperthreading; default turbo mode is 3.9GHz).

 

But your fps is like 10x of mine... really strange. My settings are relatively low and I don't get good fps.

 

textures low

scenes med

cif traffic med

water med

visib range med

heat blr on (tested without - absolutely no difference)

shadows low

res 1280x960 (good old CRT :D)

aspect 4:3

monitors 1 screen (although a 2nd is connected, but I don't use it in DCS)

res of cockpit displays 512

MSAA off

HDR off

 

clutter/brushes 0

trees 6000

preload 150k

 

all checkboxes not checked

 

I usually had some 50-70fps, going down to like 20-30 with some objects, especially online - but since I patched to 1.2.2, it's far worse - seems like a bug, I heard of others with exactly the same happening, one of them has exactly the same mainboard, CPU and RAM amount, but just a Radeon 4870 - interestingly he's got roughly the same performance as I got, so the graphics card doesn't really seem to matter. It's like 20-30 without action dropping down to under 10fps now... I hope the patch will bring my performance back :D

 

But your fps drops down to 66... :D I'd like to have these fps. I'd say I should go for an i7 CPU this year - I suspect, DCS doesn't run well on AMDs at all. But back in Sep 2009 when I bought it, it was 150 €, just one better model for 190 € and the worst Intel was like 250-300 € :D

[Lange_666]

Number of CPU cores don't matter, DCS uses only 2 (one for sound and one for "all" the rest).

Also, if comparing FPS numbers, PLEASE make sure that ALL the settings are the same (including screen resolution),and then use exactly the same mission and measure at the same viewpoints. Otherwise comparison between 2 different setups is totally useless.

 

Just a few examples:

TZeer says he has water on low, you have it on medium, he has Civ Traffic turned off, you have it on medium (Civ traffic is a killer).

[71st_Mastiff]

hey Tizer did you turn on XMP in your bios setting for ram?

[Vlerkies]

Eldur, I think Tzeer is running 2 x 580's SLI'ed

[TZeer]

hey Tizer did you turn on XMP in your bios setting for ram?

 

I'm not sure. Don't think so. I tried getting it to run at 1600MHz XMP profile, but it reverted back to something else every time I tried overclocking.

 

I can't use multiplier that much for overclocking. I'm doing it with my FSB and CPU strapping.

 

125x37 = 4625MHz

 

 

Eldur, I think Tzeer is running 2 x 580's SLI'ed

 

Correct. 2x580 SLI with 1,5GB VRAM @ stock speed.

[TZeer]

I think I found something. It's related to numbers of objects.

 

Look at this:

 

First one is a small crane that is a static object in the harbor. That little bastard contains over 100 Objects. There are 6 of those in the harbor. That's over 600 objects just from the cranes.

 

 

Look at this tank, it contains of 6 objects.....

 

 

I can put down 100 tanks, and still have less objects for the CPU/GPU to stress with then those 6 cranes in the harbor.

 

 

Now this little sailboat. 45 Objects. A quick view toward the harbor from the direction of airfield quickly gives me 12 small sailboats. And that's without the smaller boats. Over 500 objects just there. That's roughly double the amount of objects needed to do Tbilisi with Kuky's high.lua mod.

 

 

And there is a bunch of this all over the harbor. Models with an insane amount of objects compared to the quality of the actual 3D model.

[NRG-Vampire]

I think I found something. It's related to numbers of objects.

 

Look at this:

 

First one is a small crane that is a static object in the harbor. That little bastard contains over 100 Objects. There are 6 of those in the harbor. That's over 600 objects just from the cranes.

 

 

thats why we need new objects everywhere

oldest objects like that crane and sailboat remained in game from Flanker2 and LOMAC times as converted to EDM model from CMD model

newer Abrams tank model was a converted to EDM model from LOM model (probably much more LOD optimalized)

Edited February 16, 2013 by NRG-Vampire

[71st_Mastiff]

Wow this perplexes me, why hasn't this been cleaned up? :joystick:

[NRG-Vampire]

Wow this perplexes me, why hasn't this been cleaned up? :joystick:

 

what do you mean when you write cleaning up ?

deleting ? or optimizing ?

optimizig need hell lot of time for all models

so i guess it usually means better to make a new model from scratch (if ED wont find a better conversion method/program for old CMD models)

 

unfortunately high Object numbers not always means its a complex high-det model

i think it shows how badly went the CMD-to-EDM conversion so that's why we get low FPS

 

high Triangles numbers means how high-det is the model but as we see with a high-det model we get more FPS than a low-det-high-obj badly converted/optimized model :(

[71st_Mastiff]

what do you mean when you write cleaning up ?

deleting ? or optimizing ?

optimizig need hell lot of time for all models

so i guess it usually means better to make a new model from scratch (if ED wont find a better conversion method/program for old CMD models)

 

unfortunately high Object numbers not always means its a complex high-det model

i think it shows how badly went the CMD-to-EDM conversion so that's why we get low FPS

 

high Triangles numbers means how high-det is the model but as we see with a high-det model we get more FPS than a low-det-high-obj badly converted/optimized model :(

 

precisely why hasn't the LOD Models been cleaned up from the conversion...:joystick:

[Kevlon]

I think I found something. It's related to numbers of objects.

 

Look at this:

 

First one is a small crane that is a static object in the harbor. That little bastard contains over 100 Objects. There are 6 of those in the harbor. That's over 600 objects just from the cranes.

 

 

Look at this tank, it contains of 6 objects.....

 

 

I can put down 100 tanks, and still have less objects for the CPU/GPU to stress with then those 6 cranes in the harbor.

 

 

Now this little sailboat. 45 Objects. A quick view toward the harbor from the direction of airfield quickly gives me 12 small sailboats. And that's without the smaller boats. Over 500 objects just there. That's roughly double the amount of objects needed to do Tbilisi with Kuky's high.lua mod.

 

 

And there is a bunch of this all over the harbor. Models with an insane amount of objects compared to the quality of the actual 3D model.

 

Very nice find! +1 rep.

 

I hope they fix this, this should be highlighted.

[cichlidfan]

Very nice find! +1 rep.

 

I hope they fix this, this should be highlighted.

 

Agreed, though a mod to remove some or all of the bad objects would be useful.

[bn880]

It's not really about just the number of objects though, what's more important usually is the complexity of the LOD's/models. But at the same time it's possible some of those objects are rendering in too high of a detail at a distance, and should have different LOD's to decrease face count as you get far away.

 

1700 boxes of 9 faces would let your FPS still max out at 170+ (in most engines)

[TZeer]

Did a small test with a ton of tanks :smilewink:

 

 

There are over 300 tanks there.

 

It had the same behavior as the harbor the more objects came into view. Of course, it's not 100% identical. But here you can look at my GPU usage as well. Those drops on the GPU, are when the number of objects go up. Of course there are a lot of more triangulation is this scene.

But the mayor player on the FPS is the amount of objects.

 

[Vlerkies]

Hmm, need a list of these 'older not so fps friendly' objects.

[ENO]

Would the unequal optimization also explain the shelters in Sochi airbase as opposed to other bases with equal numbers of aircraft shelters? I know around sochi as I pan my view around I go from 40 (I have it limited by config) down to 20 when the edge of my screen hits the first shelter. Perhaps those haven't been revamped the way described above that makes them process more efficiently?

[Krebs20]

Did a small test with a ton of tanks :smilewink:

 

 

There are over 300 tanks there.

 

 

I want to drop a CBU soo bad right now.

 

Keep up the good work.

[Kuky]

That's good way to test this TZeer, if you find more such objects post them, I think one of us testers need to create report about this in ED bug reporting system as each little crane eat too much fps :)

[Vlerkies]

Thanks Kuky, that would be awesome!

[TZeer]

First batch ;)

 

Now, I don't know what amount of objects would be normal or what an artist would need to still make a good model. But here are some of the stuff that really struck out.

 

Trains, and it's load. Looking around in a city I could average around 300-400, then suddenly it would double. Turned out it was the trains causing it.

 

 

And the boats. Damn boats ;)

Looking at those single boats, they contain around 30-40 objects. In one of the pictures here you can see 21 boats. If that had been tanks, it would have been 126 objects. With boats it's somewhere between 600-800 objects.

 

 

And of course the cranes.

 

 

In some cities I could find construction sites with 2-3 of these on it. And sometimes 2-3 construction sites within a close proximity to each other. Then add a train station with a train on top of it in the background, and suddenly your are getting 600+ objects, before you even start thinking about the city.

 

 

 

 

Btw, is the engine supposed to count objects even if you don't see them? Cause I was down in some valley or at a foot of a mountain with my camera. But when looking straight into the slope of the mountain, I had a object count up in the hundreds. Turned out there was a city/village on the backside.

[Lange_666]

One thing that still bugs me is why the A-10C standalone version had a much higher FPS rate then DCS World even though all the objects mentioned above already existed in the stand alone version.