DCS F-35A

[TZeer]

Feedback from who/what? F-35 pilots? Data?

 

 

Who knows.

 

Heck, even up to this date the A-10C are getting small adjustments in it's flightmodel. It's not that long ago it got a small adjustment in a patch.

 

I guess it's the same for the F-35. The more get known, the closer it will get. I'm not to much concerned to this actually. Even if the model was 100% accurate, no one on this forum could tell. It would probably still be people saying it's not realistic.

 

 

Regarding the avionics:

 

In addition the Kinney Interactive design team will be making trips to fly in and document capabilities of the F-35 demonstrator simulator, including the HMD.

[159th_Viper]

Who knows....

 

I would sure as eggs hope that the folks at Kinney Interactive know. Question is why they have not told us? We have asked nicely at the announcement and not heard anything and was hoping for an answer in the Kickstarter. Nothing yet. Would help people like me make up our minds.

 

 

Even if the model was 100% accurate, no one on this forum could tell

 

That's scary, yes, even more so when the 'DCS' brand finds applicability in this instance.

[TZeer]

I would sure as eggs hope that the folks at Kinney Interactive know. Question is why they have not told us? We have asked nicely at the announcement and not heard anything and was hoping for an answer in the Kickstarter. Nothing yet. Would help people like me make up our minds.

 

 

 

 

That's scary, yes, even more so when the 'DCS' brand finds applicability in this instance.

 

An example on this is the Huey. Remember when there was an adjustment to the flightmodel that actually made it easier to fly? And people started crying on the forums that they should not make the Huey "easy mode" and didn't stop until some devs and testpilots posted that the changes actually made it closer to the real thing?

 

I think the most important thing is to make the plane behave within the known limits. Sustained G-turns, AOA, sustained turn rate, instantaneous turn rates etc. Make an AFM within those limits, and add calculated aerodynamics from computer models. And you have come a far way.

After that it's about tuning the FM the more data becomes available.

[SkateZilla]

Pretty sure some of the Real F-35A pilots are involved :p

[Vivoune]

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

 

I completely understand some people are not happy with this module for various reasons - fine. I understand people have concerns on whether authenticity or accuracy will be achieved - fine.

 

Can those of us interested in this module be left alone of the naysayers and let us discuss this module in peace?

 

Well then do! ^^ Let people not being too happy about it voice their concerns and keep on communicating your optimism.

 

No need to complain about people complaining or try and change people's mind. I backed that project even if I kinda agree it's not the best module to come to DCS considering how little intel is available to properly simulate it, there's pros and cons, don't just go tagging everywhere hater, naysayer and whiner when someone expose some concerns. :)

[npole]

And nobody claim that this gonna be 100% accurate.

 

Ah ok.. got it.. I tought it were going to be at A10C level at least.

I'll wait for the module to be finished and released then, then i'll decide.

Thank you!

[159th_Viper]

An example on this is the Huey....

 

No it's not, not even close. With the Huey there is/was concrete data/documentation/Huey pilot input.

 

With the F-35?

 

Who knows. That's the irritation, the itch I cannot seem to scratch.

[*Rage*]

Pretty sure some of the Real F-35A pilots are involved :p

 

Would you, as an F35 pilot, risk losing everything you've achieved and trained for, in order to provide consultation for a game? In a plane which is still not operational and whose systems are still classified?

[NineLine]

Its will be licensed through Lockheed, I am sure there will be a clear understanding what any (if any) real F-35 pilots are allowed to comment on...

 

We have already had a real ground crew member (sorry if thats the wrong term) commenting on the model...

 

Would you, as an F35 pilot, risk losing everything you've achieved and trained for, in order to provide consultation for a game? In a plane which is still not operational and whose systems are still classified?

[Maxzouz]

They are far from 75k ... 15 days to go. "This project will only be funded if at least $75,000 is pledged by Saturday Jul 13, 3:19pm EDT."

 

[npole]

People that are critic against this module are scared that if we keep this route of "approximation" we will end with more "gaming" and less "simulation".

Many of us have known DCS because of the BS and the A10C, the passion behind the product, the level of hi fidelity simulation.

After a while we started to see those "less simulative" things flying around (I mean Flaming Cliffs).

Now we see third parties starting to invest time into new planes without specifying exactly how they will end, we will then eventually have this "flying things" into the servers.

That's why ppl are critic: everyone is entitled to work at the USS Enterprise if he wants to do, and if he find enough ppl to give him money, but DCS should be a brand name that means: QUALITY .. not approximation or guessing.

 

Do you want do develop a new DCS module? Great, do it, prove it to be at the standards required, and ONLY THEN apply to be a "official DCS module"; while here we're experiencing the opposite: they announced a new DCS module of a aircraft that isn't even finished in the real world, BEFORE they even collected the money to work at it? No, thanks.

[TZeer]

Ah ok.. got it.. I tought it were going to be at A10C level at least.

I'll wait for the module to be finished and released then, then i'll decide.

Thank you!

 

You know that the A-10C is not 100% either right?

 

But their goal is to be at the level of the A-10C.

[SkateZilla]

Would you, as an F35 pilot, risk losing everything you've achieved and trained for, in order to provide consultation for a game? In a plane which is still not operational and whose systems are still classified?

 

Im not saying they are handing over Pilot's manuals, they are simply gonna give feedback during the Eval-Testing and stuff. (That's My assumption, as I'm not part of K.I.)

 

 

As for Losing everything, You can lose everything by tweeting the wrong word by accident.

 

Pretty Sure KI has access to some info the normal everyday joe schmoe doesnt have.

[SkateZilla]

Sittin' at 10.3K out of 75K.

[sorcer3r]

I am also not yet convinced. I was hoping to get a bit more information where KI gets intel about avionics/flight model etc... (I had more faith in KI if they had previously developed a hi-fi F16 or something like that. ;) )

[SkateZilla]

Next we will end up with the Starship Enterprise as a DCS module with the way this is going.

 

Basically, why model aircraft that are so highly classified that it's likely that the info regarding its systems and performance will never be released in our lifetime.

 

Personally, I see no need for the F35 as a dcs module or any other aircraft similar to it until the vast majority of the info is available to the public so that it can be modelled correctly, as I foresee dcs airquake part deux in the near future due to new dcs modules that have the performance of ufo's.

 

I'd prefer the Delta Flyer.

[pyromaniac4002]

Chipped in my buck o' five (not actually $1.05, mind you). Really hope to see this become a reality.

 

For those of you sitting on the fence because of realism or what have you, I'd just say maybe throw in $5 or something minor that you won't miss because there's still a lot of ground to cover to reach their goal. From what I understand this kickstarter thing is all or nothing, so they either need to get the combined $75,000 or they don't get anything at all, and I could only assume getting nothing would be pretty obviously detrimental to the project, if it doesn't kill it outright.

 

While you're still making up your mind on whether to invest, the whole thing could be canned. (The deadline is July 13th, by the way.)

 

And for all those concerns about realism, this developer has what appears to be a very strong background in military aviation (real-life F-22 and B-2 avionics work makes me think they can pull off an F-35 for some strange reason :P), besides I'm sure being thoroughly vetted by ED to join the DCS product line, so you can rest assured that you're going to get the best F-35 sim available and when they find out something new or changes to be made, they'll incorporate it. There's no real downside to it other than the F-35 never getting off the ground in the first place.

[Exorcet]

Next we will end up with the Starship Enterprise as a DCS module with the way this is going.

The Enterprise isn't real. How could you model it like you could the F-35?

 

Basically, why model aircraft that are so highly classified that it's likely that the info regarding its systems and performance will never be released in our lifetime.

Why not? The option is there to use or not. F-35's are real, and they're going to be in service. It would be a bit strange if a simulator didn't include them wouldn't it?

 

Personally, I see no need for the F35 as a dcs module or any other aircraft similar to it until the vast majority of the info is available to the public so that it can be modelled correctly, as I foresee dcs airquake part deux in the near future due to new dcs modules that have the performance of ufo's.

 

There is as much need for the F-35 as there is for any other aircraft. And how is modeling it incorrectly going to make it a UFO? Does the fact that the avionics are classified suddenly make the drag coefficient zero in the code? Why couldn't the plane be under modeled and weaker than the real one? It seems like everyone against it thinks that automatically lack of info makes the plane reality breaking. That's clearly not true, because then everything would be reality breaking, including A-10.

 

People that are critic against this module are scared that if we keep this route of "approximation" we will end with more "gaming" and less "simulation".

Simulation is simulation, and it's not limited to 100% realism only. I see zero reason to look at the F-35 as arcade so far.

 

Many of us have known DCS because of the BS and the A10C, the passion behind the product, the level of hi fidelity simulation.

After a while we started to see those "less simulative" things flying around (I mean Flaming Cliffs).

And you probably couldn't tell the difference unless you knew what was what before hand. There is basically no difference between a A-10A and A-10C when I'm in a Su-27.

 

Also look at CA. The least realistic module in DCS, but at the same time one of the most important. The vehicles in CA are basically AI level fidelity (which is something no one seems to complain about). However with human operators, they can become much more convincing. It's because switchology and all that has less and less importance as you zoom out to see the big picture. As a matter of fact, the distinction between FC and DCS is basically only visible if you're flying the plane. If you're flying against it, FC and DCS become nearly the same.

 

DCS should be a brand name that means: QUALITY .. not approximation or guessing.

They're in the sim business. Approximation is all they do. It's all we're ever going to get.

[outlawal2]

Chipped in my buck o' five (not actually $1.05, mind you). Really hope to see this become a reality.

 

For those of you sitting on the fence because of realism or what have you, I'd just say maybe throw in $5 or something minor that you won't miss because there's still a lot of ground to cover to reach their goal. From what I understand this kickstarter thing is all or nothing, so they either need to get the combined $75,000 or they don't get anything at all, and I could only assume getting nothing would be pretty obviously detrimental to the project, if it doesn't kill it outright.

 

While you're still making up your mind on whether to invest, the whole thing could be canned. (The deadline is July 13th, by the way.)

 

And for all those concerns about realism, this developer has what appears to be a very strong background in military aviation (real-life F-22 and B-2 avionics work makes me think they can pull off an F-35 for some strange reason :P), besides I'm sure being thoroughly vetted by ED to join the DCS product line, so you can rest assured that you're going to get the best F-35 sim available and when they find out something new or changes to be made, they'll incorporate it. There's no real downside to it other than the F-35 never getting off the ground in the first place.

 

And I would mention that a typical module would cost $40 or $50 dollars so if you DO intend to purchase this module once it is available, please kick $50 in NOW... This will ensure that a final product is completed and you are not out anything if it fails. You are not charged anything until the goal is reached so please kick in $50 and you get the finished module plus the opportunity to play it before anyone else.

 

We really have nothing to lose by contributing now and everything to lose (as far as this sim goes) if we don't...

 

(For the record I have contributed my $100 already..)

[Esac_mirmidon]

This thread is for kickstarter, i think so.....

[tobaschi]

tbh. i dont think Kinney Interactive will manage it to get the 75,000$ alone with the help of this Forum community.

 

He should make quick as possible some advertisement in other community pages like simhq ,benchmarksims (haters gonna hate) and so on if he didnt already have.

[outlawal2]

I am also not yet convinced. I was hoping to get a bit more information where KI gets intel about avionics/flight model etc... (I had more faith in KI if they had previously developed a hi-fi F16 or something like that. ;) )

 

Did you actually look at their site?

There is a LOT of information there and don't you think that the guy that ran the program to integrate the avionics on the F22 and B2 simulators used by the US military knows a bit about what he is talking about?

[outlawal2]

And I would mention that a typical module would cost $40 or $50 dollars so if you DO intend to purchase this module once it is available, please kick $50 in NOW... This will ensure that a final product is completed and you are not out anything if it fails. You are not charged anything until the goal is reached so please kick in $50 and you get the finished module plus the opportunity to play it before anyone else.

 

We really have nothing to lose by contributing now and everything to lose (as far as this sim goes) if we don't...

 

(For the record I have contributed my $100 already..)

[Revelation]

tbh. i dont think Kinney Interactive will manage it to get the 75,000$ alone with the help of this Forum community.

 

He should make quick as possible some advertisement in other community pages like simhq ,benchmarksims (haters gonna hate) and so on if he didnt already have.

 

There was an announcement yesterday on SimHQ. I wonder if they are going to get their announcement in any gamer/flight sim mags...

[pyromaniac4002]

I would be happy if it was locked down to FC3 only, but it wont be as FC3 is now apart of dcs world.

 

Its just wrong is all am saying, modules like that should only be allowed in a standalone FC3 type version or even FC4 and not be apart of dcs world.

 

Thats all I am saying.

 

Military aircraft aren't about "what's right," they're about what wins. F-35 might not be out in the wide world yet, but they will be soon. The F-22 and B-2 are out there, and the F-117 has already completed its distinguished career. PAK-FA will be flying too before we know it, even that Chinese piece of crap. Stealth aircraft are reality, and DCS is about reality. You might be upset that the Red side might not have their corresponding stealth aircraft at the same time we would get the F-35 on Blue, but that's the reality of virtually every aircraft in DCS (though I'm sure they'll slap a slick-ass Ruskie paint job on the F-35 in the meantime too). Red is going to get their PAK-FA eventually, the F-35 just went in to development first. Doesn't mean you should kill off either one just because its corresponding opfor aircraft isn't ready yet.

 

And about including 5th-gen aircraft with the existing platforms, we've got the comparatively-ancient P-51 (which I love) and the Huey (which I also love) now and we'll be getting 3rd-gen aircraft like the Mig-21 soon enough. There's already a strong precedent for including aircraft that are "out of place," so to speak. So if you eliminate the idea that we're going to have DCS as a sim set in an actual place and time (though this is obviously possible at the mission designer's discretion), this is really a decision between including more aircraft or not. I for one would love to see the F-35 as much as the F-14, Mig-21, or whatever else I can get my hands on. I want them to develop the hell out of DCS and include everything they can think of. I'm sure most people here want the same.

 

And to the guy you replied to, it's definitely A-10C level. Not FC at all.