Second World War Era Aircraft Wish List

[Echo38]

And what are D9 and K4 if not high tech. I am pretty sure -4 was from end of 1944. Both Dora and Kurfurst were issued into service roughly at the same time as F4U-4.

 

Yes, K4 & D9 are both what I'd call end-of-war tech, but not quite as much of a technological leap from their predecessors as the -4 was. I don't think* they'd be an even match for the -4 under usual circumstances. Hence my objection.

 

* I'm not an expert on the -4 by any stretch, but my understanding is that the thing was a monster, in a way that none of the other typical late-war birds (109K, 190D, P-38L, late-block P-51D & P-47D, etc.) quite were. ~2500 hp.? Weighs about the same as the P-51D, but with a better wing for dogfighting and an extra ~700 hp? I don't think there'd be any contest between that and our 190D, or even our 109K.

 

That plane fits so well into late WWII and Korea that it really should be a no-brainer.

 

I don't believe it would be a good model to put in, when there were other models which were both more commonly used, and also a more fair match for the opponent fighters. We shouldn't be asking for "superplanes" to be thrown into the sim, especially when they were less common than more down-to-earth (and more even with the opposition) models/blocks/etc. It's bad enough that we have a 109K instead of a 109G; we don't need to "up the ante" even further by asking for a F4U-4 instead of one of the classic F4U-1 variants, see?

 

If a -1 was the more commonly-used fighter, and also the more even match for the opponents it'll be facing in the sim, then it seems a no-brainer to pick that instead of the -4, which was both less common and less of an even match. Unless one is trying to rig the matches ...

 

We should be asking for classic matchups, close matchups, not asking for the most crazy-powerful variants with which to make lopsided online battles. This isn't the actual 1945 arms race; there's no call for trying to rig the game, in the sim, by urging the developers to choose the most over-powered variants of favored fighters (to be pitted against less powerful ones). That isn't good for the health of the sim & its community. It makes for a planeset which is neither historically-representative, nor competitively-balanced.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Echo38

[Teapot]

Good point's Echo .. and I'd be happy with a -1D :)

[HeadHunter52]

Isn't the -4 a bit overkill for even the 109K-4 and FW 190D-9? As I understand it, the F4U-4 was faster and also more maneuverable, in general, being end-of-war tech. Not as good of a match as some of the earlier--and more usual--Corsairs, unless I am mistaken about the performance.

 

Sure. Only the Axis planes get to be over-represented/ G model 109s were far more common that Ks.

 

The corsair was a good plane, but not the beast you think it was. Don't get all worried about mismatches and such. Let the pony drivers have a little fun with something that works in the DCS world. I'm sure if we were only allowed to fight at 30K+ altitude, with the "usual" numerical superiority, Axis pilots would be groaning about that, too.

[Barrett_g]

To bad they started with 1944 airplanes.... I'd rather start with 1942 planes.... And each new plane variant get faster, more maneuverable, all around better....

 

It's going to be harder... Flying older planes with people flying around in their much practiced 1944 planes... But I suppose that's the challenge!

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

All very good points, but to the end of the war, the -1 was being replaced by the -4 in late 1943. If you were really "uping the ante" as you say then they'd be developing the -7 or the super corsair with a bubble canopy and an R4360-4 engine. The -4 was the staple of corsairs in ww2 that fixed problems the -1 had. The way developers are doing things for the ww2 scene is mid to early late models. I could go and scream about how the spit mk9 with the rolls should be put in instead of the clipped wing XIVe griffon but again not our choice on the matter. I think the corsair is not necessarily the best ww2 plane, but i think its a good all rounder that would be a healthy addition in whatever variant we get but from information I've seen might well be the -4 sub-model simply because of the amount of real world planes flying and the amount of factory and combat information declassified and available.

[ctguy1955]

 

The above link has lots of Corsairs and P-51's and the sound is good.

[OutOnTheOP]

Yes, K4 & D9 are both what I'd call end-of-war tech, but not quite as much of a technological leap from their predecessors as the -4 was. I don't think* they'd be an even match for the -4 under usual circumstances. Hence my objection.

 

* I'm not an expert on the -4 by any stretch, but my understanding is that the thing was a monster, in a way that none of the other typical late-war birds (109K, 190D, P-38L, late-block P-51D & P-47D, etc.) quite were. ~2500 hp.? Weighs about the same as the P-51D, but with a better wing for dogfighting and an extra ~700 hp? I don't think there'd be any contest between that and our 190D, or even our 109K.

 

 

 

I don't believe it would be a good model to put in, when there were other models which were both more commonly used, and also a more fair match for the opponent fighters. We shouldn't be asking for "superplanes" to be thrown into the sim, especially when they were less common than more down-to-earth (and more even with the opposition) models/blocks/etc. It's bad enough that we have a 109K instead of a 109G; we don't need to "up the ante" even further by asking for a F4U-4 instead of one of the classic F4U-1 variants, see?

 

If a -1 was the more commonly-used fighter, and also the more even match for the opponents it'll be facing in the sim, then it seems a no-brainer to pick that instead of the -4, which was both less common and less of an even match. Unless one is trying to rig the matches ...

 

We should be asking for classic matchups, close matchups, not asking for the most crazy-powerful variants with which to make lopsided online battles. This isn't the actual 1945 arms race; there's no call for trying to rig the game, in the sim, by urging the developers to choose the most over-powered variants of favored fighters (to be pitted against less powerful ones). That isn't good for the health of the sim & its community. It makes for a planeset which is neither historically-representative, nor competitively-balanced.

 

Funny, this is the exact argument I had about why we should have had FW-190A and Bf-109G models, and why I now contend that the P-51D should be retrofitted for higher octane/ boost pressures....

 

Unfortunately, it's kind of too late; that ship has sailed. Which is to say, that superplane has taken off. Once the Dora was in, it was a race to the top. The K4 has really sealed the deal. Expect to see rare, end of war birds for all nationalities, now... and maybe not so many common '44 models.

 

Ironically, there DO seem to be start-of-war models on the way (F4F and P-40), but only for the poor Americans (who also get literally the WORST-spec P-51D ever produced). If I were into conspiracy theories...

 

*edit: though, for the record, I also kind of oppose the F8F, for the exact same reasons. PARTICULARLY the cannon-armed version. If it were appropriate for Korea, maybe, but it's not. It's pretty much a "what-if" plane, in the same way the P-51H is. Sure, they're better performance, and sure, they were actually built in quantity, but they were designed to be the next generation aircraft in case the war dragged on... which it didn't

Edited May 12, 2015 by OutOnTheOP

[Echo38]

Sure. Only the Axis planes get to be over-represented/ G model 109s were far more common that Ks.

 

As I've said before, we should have gotten a 109G instead of a K. However, continually trying to "one-up" the "other side" is only going to make the problem worse. Given that we have 109K and 190D, we should be hoping for good matches for those, and not trying to get something that outclasses them. Your objectivity is in doubt.

 

I'm getting the sense that some have the attitude of "well the 109K is too much for the P-51D, so we need to 'get back at them' by bringing in a F4U-4 so we can have something that's too much for the 109K!" This is childish and solves nothing, but only creates more problems. "Two wrongs" and all that.

 

I am, and long have been, in favor of the WEP ratings of the P-51D & P-47D being increased as appropriate, to historically-common boost levels, with the end result of trying make a fair match for the Me 109K & FW 190D, without decreasing historical accuracy.

 

Quit trying to persuade ED to pick a variant that outclasses your opponent aircraft, people! This goes for both sides. German fighters, American fighters, whatever. Knock it off, for love of blue. It's going to kill multiplayer; for your own sakes, even if you lack objectivity, you should listen to me. Unless you like flying on empty servers ...

Edited May 12, 2015 by Echo38

[Proof]

I'm only asking because I genuinely don't know; did the F4U-4 or any variant for that matter see combat in the ETO?

[AG-51_Razor]

I could not care less about how the F4U-4 would match up against the 190D or 109K. I am not the slightest bit interested in even flying in a server with that match up. I figure that's what the Pony and Jug are for. My interest in the -4 Hawg lies purely with the fact that, a) it's a carrier plane, and b) it spans WWII and Korea. Having said that, without a carrier, I would not even be interested enough to buy it.

[Art-J]

I'm only asking because I genuinely don't know; did the F4U-4 or any variant for that matter see combat in the ETO?

 

RN ones (earlier version) did a couple of raids against Tirpitz in '44 (escorting bombers), but that's about it. Never fired a shot at a German plane during these missions.

[Proof]

RN ones (earlier version) did a couple of raids against Tirpitz in '44 (escorting bombers), but that's about it. Never fired a shot at a German plane during these missions.

 

Ah interesting, thank you.

[Echo38]

In honor of the love we all share for fighters & flightsims, I made a little comic strip to represent the discussion of aircraft selection.

 

[Bullfrog_]

Unfortunately, it's kind of too late; that ship has sailed. Which is to say, that superplane has taken off. Once the Dora was in, it was a race to the top. The K4 has really sealed the deal. Expect to see rare, end of war birds for all nationalities, now... and maybe not so many common '44 models.

 

I agree. I would of loved a flight sim that modeled work horses in their average configuration, but it seems everyone and their mother has to tune their planes to the best possible settings. I would of bought a 109G6 in a heart beat, but I struggle to bring my self to be interested in buying the k4.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Bullfrog_

[Gunrun_KS]

Cool your jets guys, this isn't War Thunder. What are the chances people will make maps with corsairs and 109's going head to head? I'm all for it and any other plane that ED or a 3rd party wants to toss into the mix. That's just more planes and scenarios for us to choose from.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I also think that a 190A/109G mix would be more interesting. I'd buy those in a heart beat. The new models I can't really relate to, even though I am glad to have them.

[HeadHunter52]

The -4 appears to have outfitted several squadrons in 45. So, eh, it has its place. I wouldn't like to see it in a European environment, but with a potential Raiden in the mix, sure - put her in the Pacific. I'd even go for a 1D, but....

 

It'll never happen, but replacing the K4 with Gs would take care of a lot of problems with the P-51D arguments.

 

Is the -4 Corsair a "take that" for the de-tuned Mustang? Maybe it is, in some people's eyes, but it won't see many ETO applications, so that's a moot point. It's P-47 cousin will have to take up the banner for Europe. But that'll be a deadly tactical game to play, as the Jug MUST play its strengths to survive.

 

Jerry pilots can relax....

[fastfreddie]

F4U-1 would be my personal choice which ever version and would be a good fit in if we ever saw any mid war Japanese designs in DCS. Someone could clip the wings for a Brit version!

[otto]

I don't see any problem for a F4U-4 fight vs a 109.And i fly mostly 109.

I would also love to fly one,but with cannon armament not mg .

Edited May 13, 2015 by otto

[bart86pl]

To be honest I would welcome any WWII plane in DCS. I had more fun flying my DCS BF-109 than playing the other sim dedicated to WWII ;)

[Solty]

Fw190A8 and P38J would be awesome.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Yeah I would not be too fond of a cannon mounted Corsair.

[Darkwolf]

What are the chances people will make maps with corsairs and 109's going head to head?

 

I see Su-33 and F-15s battling everydays. Have you ever heard of this IRL ? :D

 

What's cool with virtual stuff, is that some stuff are possible. Release a corsair today and believe me, tommorow everyone will do 109 against corsair. :music_whistling:

[OutOnTheOP]

Yeah, I have a *real* hard time imagining online missions *not* having F4U vs Me109. Particularly considering there are *already* missions with P-51 and F-86 mixed in among Su27 and F-15. So.... yeah, not buying it.

[DieHard]

Next to the Spitfire, the F4U is my favorite aircraft, I would love to have a DCS level version. And would love to fly with the Black Sheep virtual squadron :)

 

The Aces High F4U squadron guys hang out here, VF-17 Jolly Rogers?

Edited June 13, 2015 by DieHard

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

The Aces High F4U squadron guys hang out here, VF-17 Jolly Rogers?

 

The only problem I can see coming from that is all of the pretend or " For Shits And Giggles" type squadrons that pop up solely for one airplane. I'd be happy working with one thats sort of under the rug by the book.