ED : next titel

[Flagrum]

What don't you understand ? He said -briefly- one of the aim of "DCS Flaming Cliffs" releases.

 

I remember that it was also explained in an other post with more details, not just one sentence like here.

 

"The "DCS Flaming Cliffs" modules allow us to develop the more detailed "DCS" titles in a more iterative way"

 

For me, this means, "we develop A, so we can better develop B" where A is DCS Flaming Cliffs and B are full hi-fi DCS airplanes. Two different groups of airplanes.

 

If he had written "The "DCS Flaming Cliffs" modules allow us to develop them as/into more detailed "DCS" titles in a more iterative way" I would be totally with you. But as it is, I fear, we will be stuck for the forseeable future with a FC3+ quality F-15C ...

[galevsky06]

:doh:

 

To go from FC3 to full hi-fi DCS, we need:

 

 

• AFM
  
• 3D external model
  
• 3D Cockpit
  
• 3D moveable switches into 3D cockpit
  
• All systems hi-fi modelisation
  

 

 

Developing DCS Faming Cliff airplanes means to be on the go for full hi-fi DCS. It is just an intermediate of the same plane in development, not something that you called wrongly "different groups or airplanes".

 

 

 

You skip the fact that full hi-fi DCS = sum of five points :smilewink:

 

 

So you misunderstood the sentence:

 

 

"we develop A, so we can better develop B" is in fact: "we develop A, so we are developing B because B = A + something"

[Risk]

The bottom line is there really has not been anything as sophisticated and as complex as the A-10C in years. I can't speak for ED or Matt, but if they were going to do the F/A-18C they would have done it by now.

[Flagrum]

My annotations in red:

 

:doh:

 

To go from FC3 to full hi-fi DCS, we need:

 

 

• AFM
  
• 3D external model
  
• 3D Cockpit
  
• 3D moveable switches into 3D cockpit
  
• All systems hi-fi modelisation
  

Yes, no doubt.

 

Developing DCS Faming Cliff airplanes means to be on the go for full hi-fi DCS. It is just an intermediate of the same plane in development, not something that you called wrongly "different groups or airplanes".

No, at least that is not what was said by Wags in that posting. He said, they will develop the FC3 F-15C further so that it gets AFM + 6DOF ("FC3+"). But that development will go further than that ... is not mentioned there.

 

You skip the fact that full hi-fi DCS = sum of five points :smilewink:

No, I skipped nothing? It is only just so, that i.e. the F-15C will get the first 3 points and thus will not become a full hi-fi DCS plane.

 

So you misunderstood the sentence:

 

"we develop A, so we can better develop B" is in fact: "we develop A, so we are developing B because B = A + something"

Well, as said further above, that is at least not what he said in that posting.

 

edit: although I am pretty confident, I can't completely rule out that there is a misunderstanding on my side here. Perhaps we both should seek the help of a native speaker? :o)

Edited October 4, 2013 by Flagrum

[galevsky06]

Ok. I also have in mind the other detailed explanation.

[Flagrum]

Ok. I also have in mind the other detailed explanation.

 

Wags about the "FC3+" aircrafts:

"At a later point, we will further develop these aircraft to include mouse clickable cockpit and the same level of detail as the DCS: A-10C Warthog, but that is a massive effort that will take time" (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=105800)

 

Timeline for that seems to be something like 2014 F/A-18C, 2015-2099 F-15C, etc.

 

But allright, .... I rest my case!

[SkateZilla]

:doh:

 

To go from FC3 to full hi-fi DCS, we need:

 

 

• AFM
  
• 3D external model
  
• 3D Cockpit
  
• 3D moveable switches into 3D cockpit
  
• All systems hi-fi modelisation
  

 

 

 

F-15C Has:

3D External Model

3D 6DoF Cockpit

Animated and Linked Switches

 

So all that's missing is the AFM, Which is being worked on AFAIK for a release This year,

and Systems, which could be done after they finish building a basis for Higher Fidelity Radar Systems w/ the F-18C

[SkateZilla]

My annotations in red:

 

 

 

edit: although I am pretty confident, I can't completely rule out that there is a misunderstanding on my side here. Perhaps we both should seek the help of a native speaker? :o)

 

 

Pure Speculation, But:

 

Making DCS Flaming Cliffs allows ED to have a Platform to Continue development of that Aircraft,

 

Releasing it as DCS Flaming Cliffs Module, allows them to take the Assets that are usually Done first (3D Model, 3D Pit, SFM, FC Level Systems) and Put it into a Package that appeals to a larger audience (non Study Sim Peoples), and the Funds from that go to further research and developing of the High Level Systems and Such for the next few years.

 

Make no mistake, DCS Flaming Cliffs Aircraft will Sell, as Lock On Flaming Cliffs 3 is the Top Selling Module, Even with the Limiting requirements attached to it.

 

It’s a Win-Win Scenario, You sell Flaming Cliffs modules to a larger Audience, you make money to fund the more Advanced Research and Development.

[sobek]

So all that's missing is the AFM, Which is being worked on AFAIK for a release This year,

and Systems, which could be done after they finish building a basis for Higher Fidelity Radar Systems w/ the F-18C

 

Not to forget that the F-15 and Su-27 AFMs will be the first from ED which incorporate supersonic flow. This is unprecedented in any AFM and a big cornerstone also on the way to DCS F-18C.

[SkateZilla]

Not to forget that the F-15 and Su-27 AFMs will be the first from ED which incorporate supersonic flow. This is unprecedented in any AFM and a big cornerstone also on the way to DCS F-18C.

 

It's gonna be an awesome ride with the AFM on the F-15C, gotta get my new seat belt installed on my desk chair. :joystick::pilotfly:

[skouras]

Not to forget that the F-15 and Su-27 AFMs will be the first from ED which incorporate supersonic flow. This is unprecedented in any AFM and a big cornerstone also on the way to DCS F-18C.

exactly..

[upupandaway]

If I remember correctly, the separate devolpment and release of these aircraft will not only permit ED to get rid of the restrictions of FC-franchise and its respective owner. It additionally makes a lot of sense to iteratively develop and finance these modules simply because, as Yoyo stated in one of the DCS WWII videos, once they have established a general template of a model (like supersonic jet aircraft or turbocharged piston engine aircraft) the subsequent development of similar aircraft will require far less time and effort.

If an AFM for the F-15 and Su-27 is developed, it will most likely benefit the development of all similar future modules. F-15 and Su-27 may include AFM and the F-18 will later include the A2A/A2G "template". Who knows what´s to come after that.

It´s a long road ahead till all this is realised and there is no pre-purchase to finance this huge workload ahead of time, so this seems a good way to go. At least that´s how I see it.

[Rikus]

Releasing it as DCS Flaming Cliffs Module, allows them to take the Assets that are usually Done first (3D Model, 3D Pit, SFM, FC Level Systems) and Put it into a Package that appeals to a larger audience (non Study Sim Peoples), and the Funds from that go to further research and developing of the High Level Systems and Such for the next few years.

 

So, how many times will i have to buy a MIG29, or SU27 till i have the DCS level MIG29/SU27?

 

That did not happen with A10 or Ka50

[cichlidfan]

So, how many times will i have to buy a MIG29, or SU27 till i have the DCS level MIG29/SU27?

 

 

Six sounds about right. ;)

[sobek]

So, how many times will i have to buy a MIG29, or SU27 till i have the DCS level MIG29/SU27?

 

As often as you deem the product worth the price that is asked for it.

 

That did not happen with A10 or Ka50

 

It did happen with the Ka50. Also, the A-10C development was partially funded through the DTS project for the USANG/USAF. Last but not least, a supersonic multirole fighter aircraft is a lot more complex. For this to work, ED need to develop a supersonic AFM, new A/A and A/G radar simulation, update the A/A missile guidance logic (probably one of the most complex tasks ever to be done for any module), incorporate carrier landing mechanics, the list goes on...

[outlawal2]

So, how many times will i have to buy a MIG29, or SU27 till i have the DCS level MIG29/SU27?

 

That did not happen with A10 or Ka50

 

Well unless you have someone standing there holding a gun to your head, you only need to purchase the plane ONCE... Whether you have the discipline to wait for the DCS level MIG29/SU27 is a different question altogether...

 

If you don't want the lesser fidelity aircraft don't buy it...

[Robin_Hood]

Not to forget that the F-15 and Su-27 AFMs will be the first from ED which incorporate supersonic flow. This is unprecedented in any AFM and a big cornerstone also on the way to DCS F-18C.

 

EDIT: Alright, I kinda overlooked from ED in your quote ; my point kinda stands, though

 

What about the MiG-21Bis ? That's a supersonic one also, and it seems (from an out-of-the-loop point of view) that it's AFM is pretty close to completion (ie. fine-tuning stage), whereas we have no idea about the F-15C/Su-27. So, first supersonic AFM ? Not sure.

 

Although from my understanding, Beczl and ED worked hand in hand to build the MiG-21 AFM, and probably it's developpement and that of the F-15/Su-27 AFMs are related.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, though, I'm not in the know ;) Now, the first released supersonic AFM might well be the F-15, since I don't see the MiG-21 coming just now.

[X93355]

It's the long wait between drinks that is the killer isn't it. The fact is, we want something and we want it now (F-18C is the one for me). BUT we just have to wait.

With an updated graphics engine and new maps poorly needed, I can only guess ED are working on these as fast as they can.

We all know they are working on different aircraft as well and nothing is for free.

 

If ED ran a kickstarter for every module, I know I'd certainly throw more money at them.

 

I personally would rather not have too much teaser info and get wildly surprised, but I would love to know in which quarter the expected releases are targeted for (knowing full well everything still needs to be flexible).

 

Long live DCS and ED

[galevsky06]

Wags about the "FC3+" aircrafts:

"At a later point, we will further develop these aircraft to include mouse clickable cockpit and the same level of detail as the DCS: A-10C Warthog, but that is a massive effort that will take time" (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=105800)

 

Timeline for that seems to be something like 2014 F/A-18C, 2015-2099 F-15C, etc.

 

But allright, .... I rest my case!

 

Thank you, you got one of the posts I was looking for.

 

So yep, it takes time, but just it is normal business: what I meant with my first post here is:

 

stop complaining about ED choice to invest into mid-core aircrafts. They want to go to hard-core level aircrafts, but will release intermediate aircrafts to get funds for later dev.

 

:joystick:

[Zzenith]

Right this minute I'd rather have a new graphics engine and new maps.

 

We've had the current for far too long and its getting a bit old and dull tbh.

 

I'd happily pay for a new module which only had new graphics engine and or maps.

[Grim_Smiles]

Not seeing where the Huey and Hip cockpits are cartoony vs ED cockpits. The Hip cockpit reminds me of the current FC3 flanker cockpit in appearance.

[badger66]

F-15C: DCS Flaming Cliffs

 

Im getting confused now , over the name DCS . I always thought DCS refered to a fully clickable and functioning cockpit . But I did hear the cockpit for the F-15 will not be fully clickable , only partially .

 

So , DCS does not nessessarily mean fully cklickable cockpit ?

[GeorgeLKMT]

So , DCS does not nessessarily mean fully cklickable cockpit ?

 

This:

F-15C: DCS Flaming Cliffs

 

It's all DCS since it's part of DCS:World. ;)

[galevsky06]

Please read previous posts. Cannot be clearer !

[iRocco]

I really want to fly a F18 and carrier missions! I hope the WWII kickstarter doesn´t interfere with the project plan.

 

Do you think they update the graphics, especially the ground textures a bit with that update?