A-10 Being Retired

[Settingz85]

Yes, "Spiegel" is a kind of gutter press. Thats why i placed this threat in "Chit-Chat" :music_whistling:

[cichlidfan]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116544

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114163

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=101017

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84858

[danilop]

Actually, lot of equipment designed and developed during Cold War era is practically useless against capable, modern opponent, especially after huge advancement of the modern guided missile technology in the recent years.

 

However, I don't see that US will ditch all of its Cold War arsenal anytime soon - those are proven weapons of choice in the conflicts which US has been fighting for the last couple or so decades - against opponents still stuck with Cold War era equipment.

[SkateZilla]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116544

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114163

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=101017

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84858

 

All Merged to this one,

 

 

 

As for the A-10C, they just upgraded the IFF, it's not going anywhere anytime soon

[AlpineYoda]

Let's see...

 

The US can field A10s against Al Queda - loitering for hours over a battlefield, providing true low and slow close air support to ground forces with more weapons than a platoon of tanks.

 

Or, the US can send in F35s that fly 5 times as fast, burn 10 times as much gas, and drop one quarter of the weaponry.

 

If I'm a Marine, I want the first option. If I'm a defense contractor, I want the second option.

 

In today's America, guess which one wins....

[Darkwolf]

Thing is :

Do you think a10 stand a chance against anythin else than talibans ? If china/japan war sparkle and us get involved, how long you thnik the a10 wil survive in high manpad environnement ?

[Trooper117]

Well it's had a stay of execution, so all is well for the moment :)

[Lao Fei Mao]

The doom of A-10C

 

Today news report :

"WASHINGTON - Faced with tight budgets at the end of two lengthy wars the Pentagon is proposing cuts that could reduce the Army to its lowest level since just before the U.S. entered World War II.

Budget proposals unveiled Monday by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel would also eliminate the A-10 aircraft and the venerable U-2 spy plane."

So there gonna be the doom of A-10 (Including the A-10C?).:(

[Sephki]

It's far from the first time they've tried to kick out the A-10. Wouldn't surprise many if they did another 180 on the decision

 

EDIT: Thread was merged after posting.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Sephki

[=Mac=]

For the past 10 years or so, the U.S. has been doing a lot of stupid things. Eliminating the A-10 is one of the stupidest. There is nothing out there that comes even close to what the Hog does.

 

Consider this: The top five recipient countries in U.S. money GIVEN AWAY the FY2013 request are the same as the top five aid recipients of the allocated FY2012 funds. Israel tops the list at $3,100 million in Foreign Military Financing, Afghanistan ranks second, with $2,505 million requested, of which $1,237.9 million is designated as OCO (Overseas Contingency Operations) funds. Nearly three-quarters of aid requested for Afghanistan is within ESF (Economic Support Funds). Pakistan ranks third at $2,228 million. Iraq moves up from sixth in FY2010 to fourth in FY2012 and in the FY2013 request. Of the $2,045 million for Iraq, $1,750 million is OCO money.

 

 

These are over 50 BILLION tax dollars being given away with nothing returning. An A-10 costs close to 12 million dollars. That's over 4 thousand A-10's!

 

The replacement for the A-10? The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). But the JSF is not going to be able to do the job the Hog has repeatedly done. Just look at the hellishly limited canopy on the JSF: you can't see behind you. (In a dogfight????) Besides having a terrible view of the ground battlefield, the F-35 is also too fast and lightly built to loiter over a hot ambush zone — and its 25-millimeter (yup, just 25mm) gun comes with just 180 rounds, compared to the more than 1,100 tank-penetrating 30mm rounds an A-10 carries. Can you imagine plinking a couple T-72's with just 180 rounds of 25mm?

 

Forrest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does."

 

Killing off the A-10 is case in point.

Edited February 25, 2014 by =Mac=
adding information

[PFunk1606688187]

They're not going to replace the A-10 with anything, nevermind the F-35.

 

The USAF has always had an uneasy relationship with the dedicated CAS mission, going all the way back to the earliest days of SAC.

 

The A-10 fills a niche, quite elegantly. It is however an unwanted niche so it will go gently into that good night to make room for acquiring and maintaining the REAL strategic assets that'll win that ever elusive hot war that never quite seems to materialize.

 

I imagine in 10 or 15 years or so whenever there's another ground war there'll be talk of how it was unfortunate that CAS couldn't stay on station long enough or carry enough ordnance, or something.

 

Of course we could be wrong. My friend insisted when we had this conversation that in the future CAS will be handled by swarms of cheap plentiful armed drones.

 

Is it really just stubbornness in us that makes us insist this bird still deserves to fly? Maybe... bah who am I kidding. Screw the JSF.

[Murphyd]

Another article on the subject here;

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/dod-aims-to-scrap-a-10-to-keep-f-35-alive-in-new-budget/

 

I wonder how much of a game is being played here. Choose a much loved, well respected platform and announce its demise specifically in the hopes of generating a massive backlash and swaying opinion against the proposed cuts overall.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Murphyd

[Snoopy]

Can a mod please merge with the below link and will people please search before posting. This is like the 4th or 5th topic created on this subject.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116544&page=19

[ENO]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=121095

 

Not to mention the this one here. The fight continues.

[outlawal2]

OK we all love the A10, but the sad fact is that the plane was built around the gun and the gun was selected for use as a tank killer. Unfortunately, times change and this gun no longer will kill modern tanks... (Yes I am aware that it WILL kill troop transports, armored cars, trucks etc.) but it's express purpose is now greatly limited...

 

Let's put aside our personal affection for this airframe and answer one question... Is there ANYTHING that this plane does that an AH64D can't do and probably do BETTER?

 

My money would be on producing and supporting Apaches for this mission...

[Snoopy]

OK we all love the A10, but the sad fact is that the plane was built around the gun and the gun was selected for use as a tank killer. Unfortunately, times change and this gun no longer will kill modern tanks... (Yes I am aware that it WILL kill troop transports, armored cars, trucks etc.) but it's express purpose is now greatly limited...

 

Let's put aside our personal affection for this airframe and answer one question... Is there ANYTHING that this plane does that an AH64D can't do and probably do BETTER?

 

My money would be on producing and supporting Apaches for this mission...

 

Uhm not get shot down by small arms fire.

[cichlidfan]

Uhm not get shot down by small arms fire.

 

:megalol:

[slowhand]

Its a Shame! But thats is the way the US Political sys works ,We Close Bases and mothball the tools that really work.:doh:

[NineLine]

OK we all love the A10, but the sad fact is that the plane was built around the gun and the gun was selected for use as a tank killer. Unfortunately, times change and this gun no longer will kill modern tanks... (Yes I am aware that it WILL kill troop transports, armored cars, trucks etc.) but it's express purpose is now greatly limited...

 

Let's put aside our personal affection for this airframe and answer one question... Is there ANYTHING that this plane does that an AH64D can't do and probably do BETTER?

 

My money would be on producing and supporting Apaches for this mission...

 

I dont think you can compare the roles of an A-10 to the Apache... they certainly wouldnt fly in the same environment I wouldnt think. I mean durability, payload are a couple things that come to mind...

[AlpineYoda]

Thing is :

Do you think a10 stand a chance against anythin else than talibans ? If china/japan war sparkle and us get involved, how long you thnik the a10 wil survive in high manpad environnement ?

 

 

I'm putting the odds at 95% that the US is primarily fighting dispersed and decentralized guerilla fighters for the next 20 years. 4% that the US needs to stop a wall of North Korea forces coming down the peninsula. <1% that the US fights a conventional force on force action against China, Russia, or anyone else who can field 5th or 6th or 7th generation fighter aircraft.

 

Even in the event the US did find itself in a limited conflict against China over some disputed islands, most US air power would need to be carrier-based, not land based.

 

If the US has to fight North Korea (who doesn't even have a 3rd generation air force of note), the ability to pick off tanks and trucks will be the primary mission requirement.

 

So, that puts the likely mission needs (by my calculations) at 99% for a heavily armed CAS platform.

 

Maybe the Army or Marines should take the A-10s. The Air Force generals clearly want fast, cool, sleek, and loud fighters. The Army and Marines want somebody to stop the bad guys from overrunning their positions. The service branches simply aren't on the same page.

[Scrim]

OK we all love the A10, but the sad fact is that the plane was built around the gun and the gun was selected for use as a tank killer. Unfortunately, times change and this gun no longer will kill modern tanks... (Yes I am aware that it WILL kill troop transports, armored cars, trucks etc.) but it's express purpose is now greatly limited...

 

Let's put aside our personal affection for this airframe and answer one question... Is there ANYTHING that this plane does that an AH64D can't do and probably do BETTER?

 

My money would be on producing and supporting Apaches for this mission...

 

Show me the Apache that can travel at 380 knots, survive direct 23mm hits, and carry a dozen GBU-12s.

 

Same things go for other jets, but with the speed advantage not being the max, but rather the minimum. Zooming over the battlefield at Mach 2 at an altitude of more than 30,000 feet is not benefiting to a CAS mission. Flying low and slow because you can without falling out of the sky either because you can't fly slowly without falling like a rock, or because a stray .50 round is very able to knock you of the sky, is a good thing for CAS. For all the sensors you can put on a plane, they're good for seeing and keeping track of something, but not for finding it from high altitudes at high speed, and you don't always get a FAC.

[GGTharos]

Show me the Apache that can travel at 380 knots, survive direct 23mm hits, and carry a dozen GBU-12s.

 

Show me an A-10 that can do any of that while carrying a dozen GBU-12's.

 

Same things go for other jets, but with the speed advantage not being the max, but rather the minimum. Zooming over the battlefield at Mach 2 at an altitude of more than 30,000 feet is not benefiting to a CAS mission. Flying low and slow because you can without falling out of the sky either because you can't fly slowly without falling like a rock, or because a stray .50 round is very able to knock you of the sky, is a good thing for CAS.

 

A-10's don't float around in risky places because they can, they do it only if they must. There's a reason why they've 'been equipped with longer range capability.

 

The USA is going through quite a bit of strife right now, and while the A-10 'may have always been on the chopping block', what's happening right now is indicative of a different problem.

 

 

For all the sensors you can put on a plane, they're good for seeing and keeping track of something, but not for finding it from high altitudes at high speed, and you don't always get a FAC.

 

Yeah, except that the F-35 has already proven you wrong.

[siipperi]

Sad thing is that a10 is nowdays only suitable against third world, but yeah not like any western country would like to attack against 1st world countries so newer stealth plane only doing CAS seems like waste of money. I guess it still have some use against farmers with rusty AKs.

[Flagrum]

Imo the A-10 fits perfectly in between helos like the Apache and fastmovers or even strato-bombers. The Apache is even closer to the grunts, can perform things that an A-10 can't - like doing reconnaissance, identifying targets, just "getting close and personal". The A-10 on the other hand can deliver more and heavier "bang for the buck" - which might come in handy at times. And the fast movers can level out everything (else) - may it be busting bunkers or bombing carpets ... :o)

[HiJack]

Well if we take the F-35 to a war zone the cost of keeping support for troops on ground will sky rocket but I think we can't wait longer for 5th gen. Troops on the ground must be more supported by drones, and they already are.