Sandman1330

Are you seriously worried about such a small discrepancy? You shouldn’t even be looking at it below 40kts. I’d rather the dev team focus on the bigger issues personally. And 1500hrs flying helicopters has taught me even the real ones don’t adhere to the book numbers that closely.

This is accurate. The airspeed indicator is actually inaccurate below 40kts in the real aircraft (and most others). Below 40kts you shouldn't be looking at your instruments for landing cues, you need to be looking outside.

Great news! I think for many (myself included) it would be perfectly acceptable for saves to not be compatible with newer updates. For the purposes of long campaign missions it wouldn’t be too much of a factor. Bravo for keeping this alive.

Thanks! But I've long since for real upgraded to a Virpil base. Only just recently moved away from the X56 throttle to a Virpil as well, the throttle held me for quite some time.

Look at the configs used for that data. CL used the configs from the DCS Dogfighters server https://discord.gg/dogfighters. In those given configs, and with G modelling on, the Viper has close to the worst STR of all 4th Gen. The Hornet and M2K rule the roost in those configs. With full fuel / external tanks etc, things even out a bit. PS - if you join our discord you’ll find updated charts that reflect the M2K’s latest FM update, it is still top tier STR but is now beat by the STR king, F18.

I was able to chase this one down, and started a new bug report as it's not related to George:

Referencing this post here: I was able to replicate the bug. It does not have anything to do with George. How to replicate: 1. Set up a simple mission with 2 apaches and several ground targets. 2. Start in one apache, fire a few, have your wingman fire a few. 3. Switch to your wingman's apache using Combined Arms 4. Fire a few more. 5. After a few shots, you will end up with hellfires showing on the wpn page that are not on your racks. You'll see them depicted on WPN but they are not on the rack. As a result, you can't fire any more hellfires, even though the system thinks you are still firing them (the symbology on the TADS will show msl fire, TOF countdown, everything. But nothing is launched, and those ghost missiles stay depicted on the WPN page). Attached is a short track file that replicates the bug. Apache hellfire bug.trk

Either way it wasn’t the back scatter . Thanks for your input though.

I wonder if I should start a new thread, as I don’t think this is related to George at all… I’m not sure if the OP tried firing them himself or not, so it could be what is causing his issues or could be unrelated.

Yes I tried other targets, and it shouldn’t matter to the actual launching of the hellfire. Yes it would affect accuracy but the hellfire would still leave the rail. Both external view and the wpn page showed the missiles were present on the rails. I did take some damage but it was after the problem started (when I couldn’t hellfire I went in for guns). It’s also happened twice in two back to back missions now. Edit: oh I understand your question now, whether that specific missile was there or not, I’m not sure TBH. If that is the issue it’s clearly a bug, trying to fire a missile that isn’t present.

I think there is something to this, but I don't think it's just George. It always happens late (an hour or more) into a liberation mission, so short track files are hard to come by. But what happens is hellfires simply won't fire at all. George won't fire them, I've tried from the pilot seat to have him de-WAS and just lase, then I WAS hellfire but nothing comes off the rail when I attempt to fire them. Then I switched to the CPG seat, and still, nothing comes off the rail. I pull the trigger and nothing happens. I just noticed as I'm drafting this, I DO get the missile countdown on the TADS from the CPG seat. Again, super hard to replicate as it only happens late in a liberation mission. And I've also switched from the apache I started in to my wingman's aircraft using combined arms, not sure if that is a causal factor either. I'll share my track here anyway, but be aware it's a long one... I'd love to share a short one but I haven't been able to replicate it in a short mission yet. Track file: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ascm8Kmu7NR0hIA5Jfhx0kpoX9uFlQ?e=dWFlyu And here's an attempt at making a video of the problem. I apologize as I'm not a content creator and I am not well versed in creating video, especially in VR. As I have the problem evident right now I want to get something out soonest.

Thx BD. That is the tactic I do currently use, but it still proves quite tedious. I understand your viewpoint on it, even if it’s not the answer I wanted to hear

If you have textures (not terrain textures) to high, try bumping them down to medium. I found my issue was high textures in the Apache and other newer / high detailed modules were maxing out my VRAM, even with 16GB, and overflowing into my system RAM (also 32GB). Both were maxing out!

G'Day BD, I'm re-engaging on R1DF now that the Tomcat bugs have been sorted out. While I was on "break", I played Sedlo's excellent (free) campaign, Bold Cheetah. He has a feature built in that allows the player to "jump to the action," so to speak. I would like to request maybe you consider something similar. I have been very slow to purchase campaigns, and the main reason is DCS lacks the ability to save game. I don't have tons of time to play, so when I can spare 2hrs to play a campaign mission, I do love flying the mission from start to finish (and always do, at least the first time around). However, this being DCS, things happen. The game crashes (as we all know from recent memory!), and we get killed / mess up. I've now managed to get killed twice on Mission 9, once when the SA3 spawned directly underneath me and shot me down without much chance to evade, and a second time when one of the AAA managed a golden BB shot that took me out on a strafe (I mean, it was REALLY a golden BB. First burst shot right to the pilot. Who trains the gunnery of the optically sighted ground AI? We should hire them). I am really, really trying to find the patience to go through everything, again, a third time to finish the mission. I mean, you're 2 hours in when you get shot down, the game crashes, whatever. Then you have to do those 2 hours again (and maybe again and again) to progress in the mission. If we could have a "skip ahead" option that skips the administrative stuff - air start over the objective area kind of deal, that would make it much easier to get back on the horse. I'll be honest, this kind of thing has really reduced the number of campaigns that I buy. It's just not enjoyable when you have to dedicate so much time again and again, going through the same script, same voiceovers, again and again. Until DCS allows us to save games (which they have no plan to do I'm told), this would go a long way towards making the campaigns more approachable. Thanks for listening! And of course, have a great holiday! Edit: A second, smaller suggestion: When we are given grids for targets (as you get a lot of in M9), can we also get the elevation? It doesn't auto-populate, so the pod doesn't go to the right area, and one has to go into F10 map to find the elevation.

Strange. My first time through it stalled out when red was supposed to engage, just didn’t progress from there. Tried a second time and all worked properly. I think sometimes a trigger or flag just doesn’t fire, leaving the mission “stalled.”

Does this affect the hellfire though? I thought it was just for the range finder.

Try dropping textures down a notch (not terrain textures, just textures). I had a similar slideshow in MP and this fixed it. I believe the high textures of not just the Apache, but Hind and other player flown aircraft overwhelmed first my VRAM, then system RAM. Both were maxed out. Dropping textures to medium brought the memory load down and the stutters disappeared. I was surprised as I have 16GB VRAM and 32GB system RAM!

I don’t recall exactly, but what I often do if I think I missed some dialog or story and don’t want to replay the mission is track down a YouTube video of the mission and just skip ahead to the missed parts:

While I do appreciate everyone’s input, to clarify what I am asking, and what I am not asking: I am not asking the devs to re-open the flight model if they feel it is in the finished state. I am asking if they believe it is in the finished state or if they plan to do further tweaking. That’s all I’m asking. Again, I do appreciate the input but it is an answer, from the devs, to my question that I seek. I know they are dedicated to a detailed and accurate flight model and if they state, in their professional opinion, the FM is finished and accurate, that’s cool with me. The rest of the info was merely background. Unfortunately in the BFM community there isn’t enough downside to the jammed flaps in relation to the benefits gained to dissuade the vast majority of players from doing it. I’d like to see it change but if it’s accurate, I guess it is what it is. Cheers all.

I wish it were as simple as using energy tactics though. Even in a hornet or viper, with 250kts energy surplus, the flapping tomcat is able to stay inside your turn and spiral up without stalling out, where it should bleed speed and stall. Of course one can extend away, build turning room, and come back for a face shot, but my point being that it seems to benefit from greatly increased lift at low speed and AoA without sufficient drag penalty. However, with only my rudimentary understanding of aerodynamics leading me to believe it generates too much lift at low speed, managing to do so with low AoA and drag, I can’t say it’s modelled incorrectly. I trust the devs if they say they feel it’s flushed out appropriately. Just so folks understand where I’m coming from, here is an example. I pushed this situation intentionally to see if he could follow. Spiral up started under 5000ft, went up to 15,000. I initiated it when he was stalled out over the top of a loop, 100kts while I was over 400. He managed to roll out of the loop and spiral up with me, maintaining a better turn rate and tighter radius, with similar AoA, and still managed to accelerate nose high. I mean, if this is correct, I have no data to refute it, just that he’s generating a ton of lift (indicated by climb and turn rate), at low speed and low AoA. Just feels off aerodynamically. But once again, if the devs feel it’s correct, I got nothing to refute it. Just curious if it was on the list to look at or not. To clarify as well, dude was an awesome tomcat driver, I’m not trying to take anything away from him. I’m not sharing this to analyze the tactics as I’ve said above I pushed the situation for testing purposes.

Thx for your reply. I’m not sure I fully follow as I don’t understand where engine performance comes into it, but if I am following correctly, you consider the flap down flight performance to be correct and finished?

Potentially opening Pandoras box here…. But regarding flaps. Is the flight model “finished” regarding flaps down usage above the limits? I’m not referring to the flap jamming logic (which I support). More asking if the aircraft’s performance with flaps down (and jammed) is an area yet to be addressed. I ask because it has become extremely common on BFM servers for Tomcats to simply drop the flaps, let them jam, and just fly that way the whole fight. This gives the aircraft a massive rate and radius advantage, and doesn’t seem to impair it except in ability to get above 400kts. It gets much much more stable at high AoA, even kind of starts to feel like it’s on rails, and can sustain high AoA for long periods of time. I’ve tried it myself for testing purposes, and the general impression I’m left with is it feels a bit too “easy,” almost like it suddenly acquired fly by wire. The FM doesn’t feel like it’s up to the same (awesome) detail and complexity as it does in the normal envelope. If this is the case it’s entirely understandable, as I’m sure you guys want to focus on detailing the normal envelope first, but it makes me wonder if it’s planned to tighten up this regime or not. Thx!

I have had this problem since the 2.8 update dropped.

I’ve found that hi trajectory tends to loft it too high, so the laser spot is below the seeker field of view. Try lo or direct and see if it works. If this is the problem, maybe there is an issue with hi trajectory? I’m not sure but if you have a point selected as acquisition source, is the hellfire supposed to inertially guide to that general area or not? If so, it should point down and see the laser. If not, that would explain why it sails over. TL;DR - I’ve seen this a lot with hi trajectory. Especially when as close at 6km, try lo or direct.

I’m much happier now. I still have a bad stutter issue on one specific multiplayer server, but I’m beginning to suspect it’s a scripting issue on their end. I can’t figure why it’s only an issue for me though. My FPS on that server is extremely low, I can’t figure out why. As for the motion stutter, locking FPS at 45 using Radeon Chill was the ticket. This locks me at half refresh, which greatly smooths out the experience, even without reprojection. My old chip couldn’t maintain above that 45, but the 5800X3D is giving me 60, which put me right in the middle between refresh and half refresh. That’s why it didn’t feel smoother!