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The bug is 11 years old at least and affects not just Warbirds but all old planes up to and including 1959 F-5 (reportedly, myself confirmed the bug in F-86. Attention NineLine. Besides the Artificial Horizons (AH) not self-correcting to the gravity vector it also doesn't tumble on roll exceeding 110 degree or pitch exceeding 60. It spins around smoothly 360 degrees and it shouldn't. Compare the AH in a real Spitfire below. Recently discovered this video showing this very clearly again and again and again... Watch the "roll angle" indicator (DCS manual name) along the AH lower instrument periferi. Every time it exceeds ~110 degrees the AH tumbles. This Spitfire just keeps rolling and looping never giving the AH the time it needs (10 minutes?) to self correct. While being and staying "wrong" after the first roll, one can still observe how it tumbles any time the indication reaches 110 degrees to the left or right. The indicator looks like it "bounces back" while the horizontal line rapidly moves up or down. This happens a ~dozen times. Real Spitfire video notes: 0 - 28 seconds. Intro, Chris Hadfield sings (ugh) rolls twice and the AH tumbles because it encounters the mechanical stops at 110 degree roll. 6:35 - 6:50. Engine start. AH at rest is about 45 degree roll misaligned but spins up and self corrects in 15 seconds (much like the P-51 AH here, 12 seconds). 7:41-7:46. Taxiing, Left turn. AH misaligns slightly, 1-2 degrees. This AH error is caused by the centripetal effect on the inertia of the pendulous vanes and the slightly bottom heavy instrument housing (see educational video, timestamp 9:10 - 11:22). 8:25 - 8:35. Taxiing, Left turn. Same thing, more pronounced. 10:28. First roll. Hard to see but at 10:31 when it reaches ~110 degrees it tumbles because of the mechanical stop. When we see it again at 10:34 it's wrong but stable until ... 10:36 when AH again reaches 110 degrees and it tumbles again. Hadley keeps rolling and looping, one can see how the tumble coincide with 110 degree indication again and again. Some of the tumbles caused by 60 degree pitch as well I'm sure. Ed/add: A nice touch would be the AH randomly misaligned on spawn and then rapidly self correct on engine startup (like above and just about every Warbird video engine startup I ever seen...) ~ Adding boilerplate" for Artificial Horizon (AH) bug threads. Old "classic" AH needs minimum two functions to work correctly. DCS AH lacks the second. Hence DCS AH doesn't work at all on any old plane up to and including the F-5. 1. A spinning gyro that provides "rigidity in space". 2. Pendulous vanes that constantly corrects the gyro towards the gravity vector. There's also a third attribute which DCS does not model at all. AH tumbling whenever roll exceeds 110 degrees or pitch exceeds 60 degrees. This because of built-in mechanical stops that protects the mechanism. Source educational video timestamp 02:52. A simple test if any AH works correctly: - Airstart - Bank steeply - Cage, uncage, roll level. - Fly some minutes straight and level. If AH doesn't self correct it doesn't work correctly. If uncageable, like the Spitfire, just do above after noticing misalignment, the AH **always** self-corrects it's part of its basic function. End "boilerplate".

AI Zero? One of the best videos about the Mitsubishi Zero I've ever come across. Drachinifel, invited a very knowledgeable guest.

Artificial Horizon bug still here, 11 years and counting.

Used the Win 10 Start -> Eagle Dynamics -> Update Beta. Ie I didn't start the game to update. Got prompted Restart now? Chose No. Started the game without rebooting. Took a hop in the Spitfire, worked fine. Seems restart not required. Crafting a signature: "Artificial Horizon all old planes as bugged as it's always been, At least 11 years and counting."

My throttle seemed to be fixed possibly just by restarting DCS. Having the same issue with P-51. Restart is required but not enough. Must clear and reassign throttle too. Fixed Spitfire, I-16, P-51, T-51, Bf-109 throttles by Clear, reassign and restart DCS. CLEAR every place throttle axis is assigned, reassign to throttle & restart DCS. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/353264-patch-discussion-july-2024/?do=findComment&comment=5478652

Restart DCS seems to have fixed both missing FC3 validation and throttle issue on Spitfire. Edit red font. After restart I spawned a Su25 and A10A. Assuming all the other FC3 also present (no warning window after restart). FC3 probably present first start as well. The Mission I spawned includes FC3 planes, I just didn't try to spawn any FC3 until after restart. Thrustmaster Warthog throttle. First start Spitfire missed the throttle. Got the red "!" someone took a (P-51) screenshot of up thread. Did a short takeoff land using +- keys for throttle. Did CLEAR on throttle, reassigned throttle, detected it fine but still not working. Restarted game, throttle now works fine. Only thing now I get the message I can install the FC3 planes, but they're already installed and working. Maybe if I accept reinstalling FC3, I'll get the message "already installed" Accepted reinstall in Module Manager and restarted twice over. Still get the message I can install FC3. After clicking OK (Module Manager) restart happens so fast it's obvious it doesn't try to install anything. Module Manager still insists I can install FC3. Oh Yeah, noted Spit Artificial Horizon is as incorrect and useless as it has been for at least 12 years and counting...

15 minutes rare high quality footage of Hellcats taking off and landing. Also the batsman / LSO is shown a lot, something I've rarely seen. Also Corsairs and one other type but mostly Hellcat. The paddle wheeler (really) USS Wolverine 1945 on the Great Lakes.

Came here because I recently learned about the "Dustbin", the back-to-the-carrier navigation system for British carriers and would the British F4U use that? Of course we'd need a British carrier for that and of course the Americans had their own system. ~ Never heard of "Hayrake" until this thread. Found a very accessible description of Hayrake here. The "Dustbin" like Hayrake sends a narrow directional signal. It rotates at 1 RPM. At zero seconds past the minute it transmits due north, at 15 seconds past it transmits due east etc. The pilots synchronizes their watches before takeoff. Going home, if a pilot hears the signal at 15 seconds past the minute, he knows the carrier is due west. The antenna is a round, hence pilots called it the "dustbin". The "Dustbin" gives an exact bearing, not Hayrakes 30 degree slices. Dustbin reaches out to ~100 nautical miles, Hayrake to ~275. ~ Have yet to find a description other than Drachinifels. This video below at timestamp 16:00 - 18:40 describes it. Trivia, same video at 31:35 he Drachinifel describes an Avenger with an air-to- surface radar as the 1944 "prototype AWACS". It used its radar as air-to-air to coordinate the strike force.

Though all documentation supports DCS AH being erroneously modeled, all the proof one needs is simple common sense. The DCS AH lacks self correction, it drifts and therefore it's useless. Doesn't matter if it's cageable or not (manually correctable in clear skies). In zero visibility neither is correctable. Unless doing acrobatics one never need to correct the AH because it self corrects. Even after acrobatics it'll correct itself, it might just take a few minutes. I think the vast majority of DCS users fly in clear skies and ignore the AH because they never need it. The AH behavior annoyed me from the very beginning but for the longest time I thought I was missing something, that I just didn't "get it". I couldn't, didn't want to believe DCS had modeled it wrong. Until I thought about it and realized this behavior is stupid on it's face and can't possibly be correct. ED team can not not know this, the AH function must be 101 elementary for any professional or serious pilot because the AH is one of the six basic flight instruments. I'd prioritize this bug over hundreds of minor graphic flaws.

To unbury the lede the DCS AH does not work correctly in any old plane up to and including the F-86. This because a key modelling of Artificial Horizon (AH) self correction is completely missing rendering the DCS AH useless for any real world simulation. It drifts and it shouldn't. ~ It is not true that WW2 Artificial Horizon (AH) technology lacks correction. The correction mechanism is the pendulous vanes that continuously self correct toward the gravity vector. Bench example of actual P-51 AH self correction. Un-mute. It's true that small momentary errors are induced by a 180 degree turn (for example). But adding an additional 180, ie doing a full 360, the opposite error will cancel the first error out. So forever turning will not skew the AH erroneously. The actual error is caused by the centrifugal force acting on the inertia of the free-hanging pendulous vanes. If one performs a 180 turn and then flies straight and level, the small AH error will quickly self-correct by the pendulous vanes. Actually it's wrong to think of it as having to fly straight and level to self correct. The pendulous vanes works continuously at all times though they can be momentarily overcome by violent maneuvers. It's obviously insane to have to fly perfectly straight and level for AH self-correction. An additional important limitation applies to WW2 era AH (and in to the 50's). For mechanical protection the AH has built in mechanical stops at +-60 pitch and 110 roll. In practical terms the AH will go bananas, coco-for cocopuffs at every roll or looping. DCS AH doesn't do this. It should. This real life Spitfire video shows this. Roll at 17:01, 27:15, 31:40, 32:40, 37:50, 38:47, 39:08, 39:40. Also note self-correction (full 90 degrees) over 9 minutes from 18:05 - 27:00. This video training video explains much of this. How it works, momentary errors caused by turns (180, 270, 360), by acceleration or deceleration. Also mentions the 60 and 110 degree mechanical stops. First 11:25 minutes covers vacuum driven (WW2) AH. This bug is more than 10 years old (in that thread read kablamoman). Not just P-51 as mentioned, every old old plane up to and including F-86. Testing this is easy in a plane with a cageable AH: Cage AH, roll 30, 60, 90 whatever, uncage, roll level. Fly straight and level for some minutes (10 min should be enough). If it doesn't self correct it's wrong. Tested P-51, Spitfire, Bf109, F-86 myself. All fail.

I just managed to drain the P-51 battery. When battery drained (propeller stopped spinning) the gear indicator green dims to near nothing on pushing starter. Also fuel pressure goes to zero, meaning pump looses power when starter engaged(?). Adding ground power & hit starter prop spins, gear lamp dims very slightly. Nice. I made a video three years ago about a Spitfire ground power bug. Comparing with P-51. Insert texts explain. I just repeated the video steps. Everything works just like three years ago. P-51 good, Spitfire gets no ground power (unstartable). Last version Open Beta 2.9.2.49940. Ed/add: Re-verified (Spitfire) with drained battery doesn't start with Autostart nor after a repair command. It doesn't repair. Maybe if I prang a wingtip to force repair? ... maybe some other time.

Low resolution and settings got ~7% fps improvement. Maybe more outside cockpit. Would need to downgrade / re-upgrade to make more than an approximation.

It's green in the DCS Spitfire manual. It's green in my video from 2021. Pilots notes says green: Pilots notes, IX, XI & XVI Not just me ... Recycling NineLine's screenshots from the "oil dilution" thread.

Is it just me seeing this? ~~~ Turned yellow after the October 19 Beta update "DCS 2.9.0.46801 Open Beta" "Updated cockpit textures" I believe. Recycling old screenshot from November. Latest version "DCS Open Beta 2.9.1.48335" still yellow.

Obviously it's ridiculous to have to maintain a high rpm on the ground in order for the Artificial Horizon (AH) to work correctly in the air. If it works, it's just a band aid to prevent AH going wrong even before the wheels leave the ground... ~~~ ~~~ Ye olde classic or "steam gauge" AH have two functional attributes, the lack of either makes it useless. DCS lacks the second. I've run tests for hours without self correction (Spitfire and/or P-51). 1) A spinning gyro to keep it rigid in space. 2) A self correcting mechanism that continuously corrects it towards the gravity vector (pendulous vanes). A misconception I struggled a bit with: Centrifugal force of continuous turn will bias the AH. No it won't. A 180 turn will bias it. An additional 180 to full 360 will bias in the opposite direction, canceling the bias out. ~~~ ~~~ How to test A proper test is simple. Whenever you notice the AH is misaligned just fly straight and level for 10 minutes (enough for a real Spitfire). If the AH hasn't substantially or completely corrected itself, it's wrongly modeled. Using speedup (CTRL Z) is fine. A plane with cageable AH is quick and easy to deliberately misalign for testing purposes: Bank, cage, uncage, roll level. An uncageable AH is more work. Either fly around for 15 - 60 min until it's misaligned or ... A quick (somewhat) and dirty test. Spawn runway, shut engine off / on until AH is misaligned "enough". Four cyclings is often enough for 30 or even 60 degrees off. Now, lock brakes, open all cooling flaps, set RPM enough for good suction, use speedup, run and watch for 10 minutes or hours. Any properly functioning AH will correct itself within minutes. See any number of real life videos. ~~~ ~~~ As Kablamoman says, this seemingly is a problem with every DCS "steam gauge" plane. Just re- tested the Spitfire. Engine cyclings took AH to 45 degrees off. Running two (2) hours, it did not self correct, it got worse, nearly 90 degrees off (see pic). RPM held at 2000, but engine broke and quit at two hours, hence zero RPM in pic. Test start at 8:36, note clock left 10:36 'ish. I got the Spitfire reported 2 years ago. spitfire AH test 2 hours from 45 to near 90.trk

Confirm, I see this on Spitfire. Spawn engine off twilight. Kosher installation, no mods.

I found an account of the P-51 trip (this must be the one or a very similar). I pretty sure I read another account where aid from ground and P-51 range was mentioned (commenting had it been a Piper Cub or similar, time would've run out). I don't remember the King Air escort. Anyway, my point was that zero visibility is no joke and DCS Artificial Horizon (AH) is bugged and useless for anything more than a few minutes dipping through a cloud. The P-51 AH not used it seems (substituted by escorting King Air AH I presume). If he lost the King Air he would have needed it. A P-51B, with 75 gallon drop tanks even. Article copy locked, text copied from https://archive.ph/FRN66 and article photo taken from Twitter. vintageaviationecho.com/operation-berlin-express/

I renamed the "DCS.openbeta" folder. It worked. I really ... really ... didn't expect that to work. Don't see how it did. Holding my breath it's not a hardware glitch that comes back. The throttle doing perfect in TM Device Analyzer, seemingly working fine except for an levels offset indicated software rather than hardware I guess.

Thanks, no, I haven't. I read about that problem and avoided it like the plague. Wouldn't know how to start WINDOWS calibration.

<Sigh> Still have boost doesn't drop to zero when HOTAS levers pulled back problems. TM warthog still shows everything works right in TM's Device Analyzer. Analogs hits the right numbers at endpoints and all buttons work. This identical to before running the recalibration program). HOTAS sync off: -Spawn Spitfire RWY. HOTAS Boost & RPM pulled full back. -Boost shows ca -6.2, RPM shows 1000. Spitfire stationary. -Touch HOTAS Boost & RPM lever (both still full back) -Boost jumps to -3, RPM jumps to 1200. Spitfire rolls. HOTAS sync on: -Spawn Spitfire RWY. HOTAS Boost & RPM pulled full back. -Boost shows -3, RPM shows 1200. Spitfire rolls. Disconnect HOTAS: -Spawn Spitfire RWY. -Boost shows ca -6.2, RPM shows 1000. Spitfire stationary. Using keys (+-) increases boost and drops it to -6.2 again. Things seems to work as they should. (Image: 1366x768 PNG. Long dash (-6) shows Boost as about -6.2) Spitfire Boost & RPM normal idle on spawn RWY. HOTAS disconnected. Boost -6.2, RPM 1000 ~~~ ~~~ What is going on? Edit: Bugged TM Warthog throttle signals a higher level than TM's Device Analyzer says it does? Looks like a TM Warthog throttle problem if it happens only to me. Also that it started spontaneously and that things works fine with HOTAS disconnected (keys only) suggests broken Warthog throttle. Again, TM's Device Analyzer shows everything is fine with the throttle. Maybe I should make tracks. Then I'd might need a volunteer to test for same results. Too tired to do tracks tonight. Also need to test other planes.

Note on calibration. Calibration tools to be found in this thread. Used TM Warthog throttle calibration for the first time above (post 2). Recalibrated the joystick a lot (every time I disassembled it). Throttle program is from 2010, it says to go to (lift-up-pull-back) OFF position instead of IDLE (written labels on device) when calibrating the two big levers, which I did. Disregard. On second thought I'll probably redo it using IDLE instead. The IDLE position did say zero (0..1023) in the TM Device Analyzer software before I re-calibrated ... as if this was what the factory had actually done before delivery. Including the lift-up-pull-back in the full range isn't something I really want. This is better used as a switch, especially for jets (F-86 use this for example). Device Analyzer software shows just the same as before my recalibration. Ie IDLE position shows 0 (of 0..1023). So the calibration program seems to work correctly as it it instructs you to proceed.

It's checked. Funny, I just look at that, was about to make a reminder in the bug thread as 'synchronize with HOTAS' has not worked for two years at least. I just spawned the Spitfire with RPM lever at minimum, rpm went high, touched the RPM lever, RPM dropped. Posted the reminder. Edit: Deleted reminder as throttle might be bugged. Unchecked now as it doesn't work anyway.

EDIT: Still have boost doesn't drop to zero -6.2 when pulled back problems. When I wrote "Idle" I meant full back, NOT the "IDLE" lift-up detent. I never used IDLE for props, hardly ever for jets either which I rarely fly. Just occurred to me, while running the throttle calibration, I should try that. Having started calibration I must finish though. Opportunity to test before calibration is gone. Calibration done, now ... Nope, still 1500 RPM on spawn. IDLE detent, still 1500 RPM. ~~~ ~~~ But wait, that's interesting ... possibly YAY! not a throttle problem... Pulling RPM lever full back (not IDLE dent), now RPM drops to 1200, testing IDLE dent, still 1200. EDIT: Just spawned again, RPM slightly under 1000 (980 maybe). Note, bugged HOTAS sync now off. I've always had RPM level at max starting / spawning prop planes. Never seen (Spitfire) RPM go to 1500 before. Is 1200 the typical (correct) Spitfire RPM directly on spawn with zero throttle and full RPM? Doesn't seem unreasonable to me but I don't own a Spitfire. ~~~ ~~~ I see three possibilities (while typing): A) DCS have changed engine programming. Except why did it start during a "session", not straight after an software upgrade? Why didn't it happen on the very first spawn-to-rwy, but on every spawn-to-rwy later? True I did upgrade just before but I managed to spawn a ~5 times before it started to happen. The intermittency "might" be DCS programming, engine temps etc, I did do repair at least twice instead of spawn. B) It has always been like this for everyone else but something happened with my throttle to make it suddenly see the error of it's ways.

EDIT/ADD: -Boost gauge tricky to read. Further down thread (see image) I found "true non bugged" idle boost ca -6.2. -I stupidly wrote zero (0) when meaning lowest idle boost. Edited to -6.2 in text (red). At no point during testing (all tests, all posts) did it actually show zero (0). Except engine off obviously. -Spitfire. Bugged (idle) high boost shifts between -3 or -4 depending HOTAS RPM level max/min. Might jump straight to post #6 (first with image). Previous posts I grasped less what's happening. Also, probably not intermittent (one thing I didn't grasp). I crashed Spitfire, did Quit -> Fly again. Suddenly Spitfire rolled on Spawn Rwy. Spitfire & P-51 both increase idle <1000 ~1500, Boost goes to -4 Spitfire instead of idle 0 -6.2. Seen once P-51, Spitfire all the time. Not tried others. When observed with Thrustmasters own software "Device Analyzer". All buttons work, analog hit correct endpoints (0-16383 for example). When plugging in the throttle the boost & rpm increases. What can this be? Throttle otherwise seems to work as it should, ie I can increase & decrease, just starting from boost -4 instead of zero -6.2 (Spitfire). Calibration? This has never happened before, bought 2018, so ie five years old, so I fear something more problematic is afoot.

10 year anniversary bug, assuming it ever worked correctly. It does not. It would be useless if it did. Part of it's fundamental functionality is continuous self correction to the gravity vector using pendelous vanes. Imagine flying hours in zero visibility. You can't recage. It's dangerously useless. ~ A few years ago, a P-51 having happily crossed the Atlantic, hopping the shortest watercrossings (Iceland, Faroe(?), Scotland). Fat and happy, almost home safe, nearing London, all the real danger is over... Then, zero visibility, a nailbiting hour or so before, with ground help, finding it's way safely down, grateful for the P-51's range that let him stay up long enough to find a way down.