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New Mig29 FM


Mizzy

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Is the way I did yesterday (at night), but it's difficult to land using the ILS, it's easier to snap to ground and make a smooth landing.

 

:) OTOH, doing it this way teach you how to fine tune the aircraft.

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Yes.

 

Many thanks. Can't wait for the update now to those too scared to mess with Betas. :)

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Those worried about roll response while trimming should probably note the anhedral of the wings. It’s supposed to be slightly unstable in roll for better agility.

 

Can’t wait for navigation panel lights to come in future update...

 

Should’ve saved my first few landings. I have no idea how I survived the second one

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Love the new PFM!

 

Make sure that you have set curves on your joysticks. I have a Thrustmaster Warthog, 75mm extension. With that extension, curves set at 20 is really nice. You obviously need to go a lot higher without extension.

 

So keep adding to those curvatures. Remember the throw of IRL Mig-29 stick is fairly big. The control system is not very nice, even compared to older western fighters like the Phantom.

Makes for a very interesting challenge on such a high performance fighter. Will take a lot of practice and skill to use it's fully potential in a dogfight :joystick:

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Yes, I was glad to see a brake axis. The MiG-29 uses only hand brake, no pedal toe brakes like the Su-27, therefore these are not simulated.

 

So, it's only one axis? Still, that's better than having to have it as a button for me.

"These are NOT 1 to 1 replicas of the real aircraft, there are countless compromises made on each of them" - Senior ED Member

 

Modules - Damn near all of them (no Christian Eagle or Yak)

System - i7-12700K, 64Gig DDR4 3200 RAM, RTX-3080, 3 32" monitors at 5760 x 1080, default settings of High (minor tweaks)

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Ok mate, after deleting the axis bindings and doing them again the extreme sensitivity is still there...I just cant fly the plane properly that way, its not possible...as some people have already said it feels like the su-27 in "cobra" mode but all the time...do you really see a clear difference after doing that? I mean would it be possible that it is just placebo? (dont take me wrong, no offence, I just have a legit question)

 

I think that the problem, after analyzing a bit with RCtrl+Enter controls view, is that the response IN GAME to the pitch inputs is NOT linear (nor proportional) in the simulation, I mean, 30% of warthog deflection translates to 60% stick deflection in game :huh:, then the next 50% barely does anything and the last 20% does nothing (dead zone) as I can see how the stick in the cockpit doesnt move although the warthog response is correct from 0 to 100% in the controls setup from DCS, windows or other joystick analyzing soft so not a problem with the joy. My response is something like this (sorry for the shabby look :P):

 

1539271811-gra.jpg

 

This is apart from the FCS doing its thing.

 

So I dont think is a problem of the FM but the way the inputs we make in real life with our joysticks translate into in game inputs...maybe they simulated how the real joystick works but if thats the case I think its a bad idea for the simulation as we dont have proper joysticks to simulate that, its like the detents in the throtles of the hornet, they have to find a way to "translate" the real thing to the simulation gear otherwise it would not be possible to properly use our gear.

 

Just tested the MiG again, just to be sure. Definetly not placebo. It is much easyer to fly now then the first time. If it had nothing to di with the axis controls then I do not know why it started to behave differently for me. Maby I am doing somerhing differently now then the first time without releasing it.

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+1...even with a huge 40% curvature for the pitch axis there is a point in the deflection of the stick at which the pitch goes crazy (pretty much the same as with a linear response)...it's almost impossible to fly it properly.

 

I try very smoothly to start pulling the stick, there is barely any response, then a little bit more, almost nothing, a bit more and suddenly bang!! crazy pitch!!...no matter the trim, it behaves always the same...dont know if this is due to some kind of system implemented in the real life stick we are missing in our PC gear or what but it just doesnt work fine in the simulation...maybe there could be an alternative way to simulate the force on the stick to counter this crazy behaviour otherwise I dont think it is possible to properly fly it.

 

 

I lowered my axis curve from 33 (which is same for almost all DCS aircraft) to 15. Now I feel more comfortable, but doing small corrections now became difficult. Especially roll adjustments. I will try setting pitch curve 15 and keep the roll at 33.


Edited by Terzi
typo

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I think the reason for the weird pitch behaviour is the front wing slats.

 

To test - put yourself in a steady turn at, say, 750kph look behind you and watch your wings. Now start very gradually increasing back-pressure on the stick - sloooowly tightening the turn (and increasing your AoA). At some point the slats will deploy and *bang* the nose pitches up violently.

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I have managed to land the thing but can't deploy my airbrake and it skids and swirves all over the place. What am I doing wrong ? I have attached a track file if anyone wants to see it...it's not pretty !!

 

Mizzy

 

The speed brake and landing gear cannot be used together by design. So you need to have slowed down before you begin down the slope to land. I have a track in an earlier post that might help. If you maintain an AoA of 9 or 10 as you near the runway, you’ll be at the right landing speed for your weight.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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I think the reason for the weird pitch behaviour is the front wing slats.

 

To test - put yourself in a steady turn at, say, 750kph look behind you and watch your wings. Now start very gradually increasing back-pressure on the stick - sloooowly tightening the turn (and increasing your AoA). At some point the slats will deploy and *bang* the nose pitches up violently.

 

 

You're right! It took me a while to sort this out, but that's exactly what it is. At about 10 degrees AoA, regardless of speed or G force, the LE slats deploy and there's a sudden increase of roughly 1g, and the turn tightens.

Other people have remarked about this--and that's exactly what causes it. Not a bug or flaw in the flight model at all.

 

 

Now, I'm not sure if the sudden deployment is how the slats work on the real MiG-29, or if they deploy gradually as you pull the stick back. But, that's what's happening.

 

 

 

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I have managed to land the thing but can't deploy my airbrake and it skids and swirves all over the place. What am I doing wrong ? I have attached a track file if anyone wants to see it...it's not pretty !!

 

Mizzy

 

You can't deploy the airbrake with the landing gear lowered. It's to prevent you from dragging the lower airbrake section on the runway surface--you have to press P to deploy the braking parachute after touching down, not use the airbrake. The airbrake also won't deploy when you're carrying the centerline fuel tank.

 

The real MiG-29 is like this too according to what I've dug up.

 

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Edited by Aluminum Donkey

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I guess due to the lack of that brake during roll-out, RL pilots seem to pull hard on the stick after the chute is deployed, so the tailerons provide some extra braking - see here:

 

<<< starting at the 23:01 mark (the pilot is pulling back with two hands).

 

(maybe there's another reason for that pulling back on the stick if not for additional braking; does anybody know?)


Edited by rrohde

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Nice work, to the team that developed this flight model! The aircraft now behaves like the books that I own claim it can.

 

 

What a jet! This is one fun aircraft to take up and wring out. You just want to do aerobatics all day! In a close-up dogfight, she'd be a very capable adversary. The MiG-29 is definitely reborn in DCS!

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(maybe there's another reason for that pulling back on the stick if not for additional braking; does anybody know?)

 

In the other thread Svende says....

 

IRL you just pull harder on the stick to override the deflection limiter.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3654671&postcount=20

 

So maybe they're pulling through the limiter, which presumably requires a bit of force, in order to get full elevator deflection/drag?

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Thank you people, I understand now why the airbrake doesn't work and now got used to the new PFM. Let's just give our developers a big round of applause. Well done YoYo/ED, it's been a very long time coming for the beautiful Mig29 getting it's PFM x

 

Christina (Mizzy)

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In the other thread Svende says....

 

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3654671&postcount=20

 

So maybe they're pulling through the limiter, which presumably requires a bit of force, in order to get full elevator deflection/drag?

 

No - pulling harder on the stick is to override the pitch kicker, which is a function of the AOA/G limiter. The AOA/G limiter is disabled when the gear is deployed.

JJ

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Definitely the new FM brings a positive experience and indeed it's way different from anything else in DCS. I'm still exploring it throughout the whole flight envelope and couple of things to note:

- maximum speed/Mach number at high altitude - 2900+ TAS and Mach 2.75 are reachable. I guess thrust/drag needs some tuning at that speed range. From what I know that aircraft is the fastest rated of Russian inventory with 1500 kph top speed at sea level but I think it shouldn't exceed Mach 2.35-2.4 at any altitude.

- landing is really sweet but make sure you reset the pitch trim before you attempt another take-off afterwards - it starts pitching so fast at full burner that I couldn't react as fast and I suffered a tail pipes strike :D It was interesting to note the damage modeling in that case - I was not able to engage the afterburner, mil power max.

 

The 29 is now where it's mostly known in the world for - a very tough BFM adversary :thumbup:


Edited by =RvE=Tito

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I heard Yo-yo say that dynamic pressure has not been added yet, that may solve the overspending issues, but I am not an expert on how dynamic pressure affects an aerodynamic simulated plane

 

On another note I think the pitch being very sensitive at certain parts is fine, I understand ED’s reason for it. I hope they don’t change it, but I’ll support whatever ED chooses and what’s realistic


Edited by AeriaGloria

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Yesterday, during the fight with the F-18 at low altitude, I was unable to maneuver it in any way. MiG barely held on to the air. Generally MiG-29 is very demanding, which is in contradiction with the opinions of pilots.

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