fjacobsen Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ähm.. what you guys think about us? The first Vid shows a pilot mistake and he was on gras and the runaway had a few degrees sideslip. In the second one the tail wheel was clearly "broken" at touch down. So what will you show us? That clear Pilot mistakes compare to non mistakes of us? Or that a broken wheel shows the cautious of a full functional rear wheel in DCS? :huh: What makes You think the tailwheel is broken in the second video ? It´s a free castoring tailwheel. FinnJ i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB, 1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted August 23, 2014 ED Team Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Oh com'n... we' ve the P51 to compare.. please read the OP fully! ;) Working with the P51.. hmm.. let us think about this...!? I have no issues with the take offs, so explain why I have no issue with them and you do? Maybe its a bug that only infects some installs? In order to report a bug, I need to be able to reproduce... using the correct takeoff procedures, while still a tough bird to handle, I have no issues with take offs... So post a track of your take off and we will try and help you out, but this isnt a bug... Edited August 23, 2014 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Your comment offends me, .. I have the SAITEK Pro Flight Rudder Pedals , and i no use that cheat of autorudder that you says., :( no need to be offended mate, just covering possibilitys, more so as a friend of mine and myself found exactly that effect to be in place ;) regards, RR [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "There's nothing to be gained by second guessing yourself. You can't remake the past, so look ahead... or risk being left behind." Noli Timere Messorem "No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always been there first, and is waiting for it." Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.ZG15_FALKE Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I don´t even have problems with TO and LDG while having 10m/s 20° wind. It´s tricky and you have to anticipate and react correctly then it´s no prob at all. If you do a bad mistake you´re in deep shoot.:doh: If you manage to react correctly you might walk away from it, if not: booooom. My conclosion is that there is defently no problem with the physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIIJG52_Otto_ Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 The whole thread is about PILOT'S MISTAKES. As MACADEMIC and dozens of people show - there are no problem to taxy, takeoff and landing Dora. So, the problem is not in the physics... taildraggers have their own physics that can bite you if you make a mistake. That's the point. Almost all pilots, like me, who flew the IL2-1946, Il2-CoD, etc. for decades we are used to fly the aircraft even with severe damage to the control surfaces. We know, how to fly a plane without rudder control, and do much more. That does not imply that the physics of "prop-wash" on the tail, is well modeled in DCS. The Jets planes in DCS do not have airscrew. The "prop-wash" is an effect that has not been necessary so far. http://www.jagdgeschwader52.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Almost all pilots, like me, who flew the IL2-1946, Il2-CoD, etc. for decades we are used to fly the aircraft even with severe damage to the control surfaces. We know, how to fly a plane without rudder control, and do much more. That does not imply that the physics of "prop-wash" on the tail, is well modeled in DCS. The Jets planes in DCS do not have airscrew. The "prop-wash" is an effect that has not been necessary so far. Ground handling was highly simplified in Il-2 1946. The same was true for Cliffs until its most recent TF patch. P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 We know, how to fly a plane without rudder control, and do much more..... And that means what exactly when you are referring to an 'arcadish' flight model to begin with? Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Rider Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) ~ Almost all pilots, like me, who flew the ( the sim that can't be mentioned ), etc. for decades we are used to fly the aircraft even with severe damage to the control surfaces. ~ can't compare one sim to another... chalk and cheese comparison, as well as being as unfair as to compare a redbull racer to a WII war horse or comparing both to an rc plane Edited August 24, 2014 by Wolf Rider City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P "Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson "Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing." EVGA X99 FTW, EVGA GTX980Ti FTW, i7 5930K, 16Gb Corsair Dominator 2666Hz, Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit, Intel 520 SSD x 2, Samsung PX2370 monitor and all the other toys - "I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_Dragon Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I searching for real videos (no games) a real Fw-190 (A-8).... I don´t see the "massive" prop-wash effect someone claim. :huh: http://youtu.be/XkqbUahsiHg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 The "prop-wash" is an effect that has not been necessary so far. You do realize that before the A-10C there was the Ka-50, which is not only one but 2 huge props? Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I searching for real videos (no games) a real Fw-190 (A-8).... I don´t see the "massive" prop-wash effect someone claim. :huh: http://youtu.be/XkqbUahsiHg That's why, for instance, I find the Fw190 better modeled in DCS World than in, for instance, IL2 BOS, where I have to use massive right rudder, and even right brake when I start my takeoff run. In DCS the Fw190 is gentle and easy to control from throttle up to takeoff power to takeoff... You just have to promptly use the rudder to correct and drifting tendencies. Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DBS]TH0R Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 And that means what exactly when you are referring to an 'arcadish' flight model to begin with? Exactly. After spending some time with DCS I can't go back to IL21946. It is like comparing IL21946 to WarThunder. Somewhere it has been said that IL2 grossly exaggerated certain things. For me, the most notable are landings. After DCS, IL21946 landings feel as if someone is holding my plane while I am touching down. In DCS I actually have to work for it and apply proper techniques. IMHO IL2 thought us some bad habits. P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5 WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Is the P51D tailwheel lock modeled?Rather I ask is it always on as I find its locked even with stick at neutral.It does unlock when stick is pushed forward though and taking off with tail unlocked is crazy hard.:lol: "Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly: i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DBS]TH0R Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Is the P51D tailwheel lock modeled?Rather I ask is it always on as I find its locked even with stick at neutral.It does unlock when stick is pushed forward though and taking off with tail unlocked is crazy hard.:lol: P-51D tail wheel when locked allows for 7° of movement. Dora's doesn't move at all when locked with stick held back. That is the difference. Hence the toe brakes tapping technique. EDIT: IIRC there might be a difference also whether you need to hold the stick back to actually lock it or just move it once then center again (neutral) for it to remain locked, haven't tested that since I always hold it in my lap. :) Edited August 24, 2014 by T}{OR P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5 WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 The tail wheel lock on the P51 needs a look IMO.I dont think its functioning correctly.I am uploading two FW190d videos to show the difference that the stick back position makes in that plane,which is very large.In the P51 stick position doesn't seem to matter though and seems wrong to me.But what do I know as %99 percent of the issues I find with DCS products I am proven wrong. ;) "Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly: i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) ^ Well, You asked for it :D. From the page 16 of the real P-51K manual (and probably copied directly to DCS manual ;)): "The tailwheel is both steerable and full swiveling. It is steerable 6 degrees right or left with the rudder. The tailwheel lock is different from that of most other planes - it is operated by the control stick. When the stick is in neutral position or pulled back, the tailwheel is locked and steerable. When you push the stick full forward, the tailwheel is unlocked and full swiveling". Edited August 24, 2014 by Art-J i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 ^ Well, You asked for it :D. From the page 16 of the real P-51K manual (and probably copied directly to DCS manual ;)): "The tailwheel is both steerable and full swiveling. It is steerable 6 degrees right or left with the rudder. The tailwheel lock is different from that of most other planes - it is operated by the control stick. When the stick is in neutral position or pulled back, the tailwheel is locked and steerable. When you push the stick full forward, the tailwheel is unlocked and full swiveling". Perfectly done!:megalol: The A10c was driving me CRAZY as I thought it had so many bugs and then just kept finding out that it was all correctly modeled and just a pain in the ass plane to handle! And to show the difference in the FW190d Tail wheel unlocked first and then locked with stick back. 1 "Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly: i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klem Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 My experience with the 190 led me to explore my Saitek pro rudder pedals setup. I descovered that there is a very slight spiking occurred around my center point. Added with the strong detent type of manufacture (around the self centering point) with Saitek rudders causes too much inconsistant imputs occurring right at the point of crusial right rudder imput. Most of us are over coming this by using very rappid and continuous left and right rudder imputs (or dancing the rudders, as some have described it) to try and dampen out these inconsistant spikes in our hardware. In real life I have only used this technique rarely when landing in gusting conditions. Just my 2 cents worth. BTW, ordered some Crosswind rudders from Milan. I bet those rudders with their much more consistant imput control do need any dancing, just small right rudder imputs. This thread is far too long to read all through and may opinions are being repeated anyway so here's my 2p I have Saitek X52 Pro (Hall Sensors) and MFG Crosswind Pedals (Excellent by the way, better than any others I have used). I have no control curves set, just the 'virgin' slopes. What I say next is without any real flying experience since gliders and Chipmunks 50 years ago plus 20+ years of flight simulators both 'game' and professional and like everyone else here, I haven't flown a real FW190D-9 so I can't say how it should be. I have little trouble keeping the Dora straight on takeoff using locked tailwheel, providing I have lined up accurately and I stay right on top of directional control with the occasional kick of rudder. At 150kph I gently ease the stick to the centre and allow the tail to come up before it flies itself off during which its a case of more very careful rudder control as the speed builds. Lift off is around 200kph usually with a tilt to the left requiring a smidgen of aileron plus rudder to try to centre the ball. Then the trouble begins as first the nose kicks up calling for frim elevator control and then it squirls around and constant quick but tiny control inputs are necessary until it reaches 300kph when I raise gear and flaps and I note I am roughly on TO heading but never on the centreline Above 300kph it settles down nicely. 'Tiny' inputs may be a matter of stick scaling but I prefer not to do that because it flies well without it and I assume the FM is designed around non-scaled sticks. On landing I get the same 'instability' with landing flap down below 250kph and it squirls around at the slightest change of power or control. Now I know these changes will cause flight changes but I question whether the FW is too unstable at these low speeds. So that's my question, is it too unstable at low speed? Can anyone shed historical light on this? klem 56 RAF 'Firebirds' ASUS ROG Strix Z390-F mobo, i7 8086A @ 5.0 GHz with Corsair H115i watercooling, Gigabyte 2080Ti GAMING OC 11Gb GPU , 32Gb DDR4 RAM, 500Gb and 256Gb SSD SATA III 6Gb/s + 2TB , Pimax 8k Plus VR, TM Warthog Throttle, TM F18 Grip on Virpil WarBRD base, Windows 10 Home 64bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 .. for instance, IL2 BOS, where I have to use massive right rudder, and even right brake when I start my takeoff run. If you slam the throttle full forward.. that is. Always could do that in IL2 with no consequences. You'll have the same problem with the DCS P51 'crabbing' off the runway. I don't have the FW yet, but I'd imagine it would be the same. DCS requires 'nice' application of throttle/prop speed to keep control, as well as saving your engine. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 For the OP... Set game mode to sim (not arcade) and slam the throttle full, and try control it. Enjoy the short ride. Propwash, torque ..etc ... are all there. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) [sOLVED!] Propwash track... for Yo-Yo :-) Will certainly get fixed, sooner or later ... it is just too evident. No killer bug, and indeed ground handling in the Dora and overall flight dynamics felt very very good to me.propwash 1.2.10.trk Edited October 19, 2014 by jcomm Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappie Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Dora Vert Stab and Propwash This may have been asked before but I was curious why there appears insufficient propwash hitting the tail to allow yaw movement during a taxi? Taxi is very break heavy and wondering if three-bladed prop is just not providing enough force at low rpm? I watched videos of Dora and seems to be more then sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Chappie, I am able to use the rudder, and even use slight "bursts" of power to make it more efficient, but the stick must go to neutral or a bit fwd of neutral because otherwise the tailwheel is locked. It is, at least, a lot more efficient and close to what I see in youtubes of fw190s taxiing than in my other sim, where I am forced to use full rudder deflection sometimes added by differential braking. Edited October 21, 2014 by jcomm wrong word - surges. changed to bursts Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DBS]TH0R Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Taxi and TO tutorial will show you just how effective Dora maneuvers on the ground. The emphasis is on toe brakes though. P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5 WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdaw Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 when you take off with a crosswind i find it easier with the flaps up, i have added a track file with FW190 take off and landing from Anapa Vityazevo the wind is from 326* 10m/s. You will see it done better. dora xwind.trk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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