History of the Swastika

[Pikey]

I had no idea the symbol was for good fortune and was used in American advertising.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29644591

 

A nice article that allows us to look beyond our short sight and ignorance.

[Boris]

Wow, that's a really interesting read! I knew that the symbol had a history in eastern religions but I didn't know the symbol was so popular in the west pre-WW2. The CocaCola swastika... unbelievable. It looks like a joke now.

 

Seeing as the swastika was so popular at the beginning of the 20th century, it's easy to see why Hitler adopted it as the symbol of the Nazi party.

 

The Finnish air force also used the swastika for completley independent reasons.

[NRG-Vampire]

Wow, that's a really interesting read!

 

yeah, very interesting

and here is another interesting read with amazing images

http://reclaimtheswastika.com/

 

 

^ http://reclaimtheswastika.com/photos/

[Boris]

It's funny... I just can't get used to seeing those images in a different light. My gut reaction when I see them is immediately "Nazi!".

[504smudge]

Well it didn't bring much good luck to the Germans! lol

[Fjordmonkey]

It's funny... I just can't get used to seeing those images in a different light. My gut reaction when I see them is immediately "Nazi!".

 

This. Even though I know much about the history of the sign, I fear that it has been tainted for all eternity.

[Aginor]

The Falun Gong also use it in their logo, except in Germany where it is illegal, so they changed it.

It is pretty common, yeah. At least the rectangular versions, mirrored or not. The 45 degrees rotated version is pretty unique to the Nazis though.

[Yurgon]

I had no idea the symbol was for good fortune and was used in American advertising.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29644591

 

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

[Exorcet]

This. Even though I know much about the history of the sign, I fear that it has been tainted for all eternity.

I actually feel the opposite. I think swastikas look awesome and the whole Nazi thing to me is just a small side story. I'd like to see it come back into popular culture.

[Spyros]

It was used in ancient Greece (some times also as part of meanders) and it was called the «Γαμμάδιον» (Gammadion)

[EtherealN]

For a while I was active in an eastern martial art that used a manji (Swastika) as it's symbol, but locally we instead used an alternative symbol (拳, ken) because... well, obvious. :P

 

Regarding "reclaiming" the symbol... I'm torn. I can see a point to it (sort of like the gay community "reclaiming" the word "gay" in at least some parts of the world), but I'm not sure that that is doable in this case. I'd say it all depends on the circumstance. We europeans need to know not to "react" if we run into it at a dojo in Japan, Korea or China (or indeed at a regular temple in India), but still be sensitive to what it's associations are "back home".

 

The history of the finnish air force swastika is fairly interesting though, and a lot of people get surprised by it. The common misconception is that the finns used the swastika on their aircraft during WW2 due to being allied with the germans in the continuation war. Not the case of course - they used it since 1918. During the finnish civil war (after the revolution in russia), Swedish nobleman Eric von Rosen (same family as later involved in the Biafra war, if I recall correctly, setting up Biafra's air force with modified "baby" sport planes, operated by swedish "spare time pilots") donated aircraft to the "whites". The Finnish air force then adopted one of von Rosens family sigils (a swastika) as a way of honoring the gift.

 

All of that said: this is a very loaded topic, so please be careful. ;)

[pyromaniac4002]

I actually feel the opposite. I think swastikas look awesome and the whole Nazi thing to me is just a small side story. I'd like to see it come back into popular culture.

 

As long as Nazis are still around vandalizing synagogues with them, that's the only popular culture that will ever be associated with it. There's just something about taking up a symbol and killing millions of people under it that really kind of diminishes whatever else it could stand for. I'd advise that you not start putting swastika bumper stickers or apparel on any time soon. You know, unless you want to be seen as a Nazi. And in that case I'd need to replace many words in here with expletives.

[EtherealN]

As long as Nazis are still around vandalizing synagogues with them, that's the only popular culture that will ever be associated with it.

 

Careful there.

 

The point is: you mean "popular culture in the west".

 

Note that through all this time, it has been associated with something completely different by way more people than have associated it the Nazis. (Because, for example, China alone is as many people as both Europe and the US together... and more.)

 

Sensitivity for what a given symbol means in a given cultural context must go both ways. We can't invalidate what the asiatic cultures feel about it (and they vary) based solely upon our western perspectives, when they never used it in any circumstance similar to what we deplore it for. (See it as mirroring the same respect they give us, by for example NOT using the symbol in international circumstances involving europeans and americans.)

 

There's just something about taking up a symbol and killing millions of people under it that really kind of diminishes whatever else it could stand for. I'd advise that you not start putting swastika bumper stickers or apparel on any time soon. You know, unless you want to be seen as a Nazi.

 

Finnish Air Force General Staff still use it, afaik.

 

Of course, we could argue about whether they _should_ use it still.

 

And then there's a whole separate area called "law", which applies to other situations. (For example the issue of having the symbol on simulated representations of WW2 aircraft, which is legally dodgy in some cases, and whatever we might feel about being historically correct we need to work with that.)

[Yurgon]

As long as Nazis are still around vandalizing synagogues with them, that's the only popular culture that will ever be associated with it.

 

I fear that you are correct and hope that you are not.

 

The article quoted in post #1 illustrates how the swastika used to be a symbol of positive things and how the Nazi regime basically captured the symbol. I'd like to think that it would be a good thing if we were able to "un-capture" the symbol and, once again, turn it into something associated with positive things, or at the very least take it away from the Nazis as a symbol of fear and hatred.

 

I think even under the most ideal of circumstances this is going to take a long while; I can hardly imagine how survivors of the holocaust and their offspring could ever embrace that symbol, as the article also references. It's just that "the only thing that will ever be associated with it" is too long a frame of reference IMO and I hope that, given time, this symbol will be returned to what it used to mean while at the same time we should remain aware of what the Nazis turned it into so as to not be ignorant of history.

 

Regardless of whether or not we should embrace the swastika as the positive symbol it used to be, I think it's actually important to know about its history as well as its use in cultures outside of Europe/the west, which is why I'm especially glad about this thread. :thumbup:

[Wolf Rider]

interesting topic...

 

Apparently the ancient Aztecs endorsed a version, along with the Hopi (?) Indians.

Some say it is meant to represent a spinning Muladhara Chakra (Root Chakra)

[Sceptre]

The SS were bad but you have to admit that their uniforms were awesome

[Griffin]

The SS were bad but you have to admit that their uniforms were awesome

That's because they were the BOSS.

 

Finnish Air Force Aircraft and Systems Training Wing in 2008 independence day parade. I felt proud marching under that flag and the faces of a couple of tourists were worth seeing! Worth noting is that the hanging flag makes the swastika look wrong, standing on it's tip like the Nazi one does, while in fact it's standing on it's flat side like a Finnish swastika should.

 

Edited October 30, 2014 by Griffin

[j.sabo12]

Unfortunately, since the history of the Second World War is so well known throughout the world, the symbol will be primarily associated with nacism, at least for the next few centuries, even though it has been used by other, peaceful groups for hundreds of years. Makes it a bit sad, really..

[Laurius]

That's a really interesting thread, really !

 

I've always heard that the nazis reverted the branches of the original swatstika (leftward rotation), converting it from a solar symbol into one associated with darkness (rightward rotation).

 

I saw it in japanese temples with the original orientation and we can see such an example in the link provided by OP.

 

What is strange, is that in the early XXth century, the orientation seen is most of the time the same as the one used by nazis (see the same link mentioned by the OP, such as Coca Cola's one).

 

Regarding picture posted by Griffin, I would say that Finish Air force is using swatstika with its original orientation, thus, not nazi.

 

Here, in Grenoble, we have a very old church with a crypt dating from the VIth century. This church evolved throughout the following centuries and has a remarkable ceiling in the nave. This ceiling was painted in 1910 and displays swatstikas oriented righward, just as those used by the nazis.

You can see it here :

http://musee-archeologique.clic-and-web.com/nef-eglise.htm

 

Of course, the first time I visited this church, many questions arose in my mind.

 

So, the question is, what makes the difference between a 'good' and 'bad' swatstika ?

[SafetyTurtle]

It's really a shame that such a short time in history will taint a symbol that has stood for so much more for such a long time.

 

I really hope it an be reclaimed and go back to being socially acceptable...mainly because it's not the only symbol that have been used for some very bad things that are still used today.

It may take a long time though.

 

Here's another example I quite like...cause it's close to home ^^

[Wolf Rider]

That's a really interesting thread, really !

 

I've always heard that the nazis reverted the branches of the original swatstika (leftward rotation), converting it from a solar symbol into one associated with darkness (rightward rotation).

 

~

 

 

 

Its the other way 'round... the version used by and now likely to be forever associated with that particular party who did so in the 30's/ 40's and their adherents since, is in the anti-clockwise aspect. The tips of the spinning " + " leave a trail

[Roadrunner]

i just saw something else, and while it shows how old and used the swastica was, it is funny noone noticed yet ;)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2258152#post2258152

 

check the picture there.

[Steel Jaw]

Well it didn't bring much good luck to the Germans! lol

 

You say that but Keital was right when he said to the Allies in May 1945: the Germans were outnumbered, never outfought.

[SFJackBauer]

I actually feel the opposite. I think swastikas look awesome and the whole Nazi thing to me is just a small side story. I'd like to see it come back into popular culture.

 

Me too. It is quite interesting though seeing those feelings from a psychological standpoint... shows how irrational people (me included, sometimes...) are when we react to a thing without considering its context (ex. a swastika in a dojo).

 

That's because they were the BOSS.

 

Look, I consider myself a WW2 buff, but... how the hell I missed this fact. Thanks for pointing it out :)

[Mustang]

Does anyone remember that film 'Starship Troopers' i'm pretty sure that there was some Nazi influence in some of the costumes :D