Big Nuts Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Is amazing, now i can ride the knife's edge and battle my foe in style. Just had some battles with ai F4's, i chose to merge head on at max speed to get in for a heater shot(My setup it's very hard to control systems in combat so point n shoot with heater cut out all the in-cockpit fumbling around stuff:doh:), i came in low to make it harder for him to track me which seemed to help. Anyways had a protracted dogfight and finally got the better of him when he tried to run for it. Stalled about 3 or 4 times during the fight :D Managed to recover though. I notice the F4 E's which i think they were, had a lot of thrust, they could go in the vertical and used it successfully against me. The new FM is so much fun i even auto rotated it which i've always heard about the 21. MiG21 is a dream come true :) Thank's ~S~
Neon67 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 regarding the new FM , is it normal that after AoA I enter into an unrecoverable stall exept if I open the chute ?
Harle Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 regarding the new FM , is it normal that after AoA I enter into an unrecoverable stall exept if I open the chute ? What?
Neon67 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 after pulling hard on the stick I enter into a stall that I can't recover, is it normal ?
Harle Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) after pulling hard on the stick I enter into a stall that I can't recover, is it normal ? Don't know about you, but I've recovered from every stall provided there was enough altitude. It happened very few times to me though. Gonna try looking into it. Edited October 8, 2015 by Harle
Art-J Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Deep stalls (usually turning into slow spins) possible in 1.5 now are difficult to recover, but it can be done. However, as Harle pointed out, it takes lots of altitude to do so. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.
kingfish Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Deep stalls (usually turning into slow spins) possible in 1.5 now are difficult to recover, but it can be done. However, as Harle pointed out, it takes lots of altitude to do so. You can't deep stall a MiG-21. The tail is clear of the wing wake long before a stall. You can, however, get it into a spin if you kick the nose left or right when you stall. I mostly fly the F-18, and mostly as a flight sim rather than a combat sim. Gigabyte Aorus Pro Wifi, Ryzen 5 3600, GTX 1080, 16gb DDR4 3600, Valve Index TM Stick/Throttle, Saitek Pedals, VAICOM
Santi871 Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Push the stick all the way forward and apply full rudder in the opposite direction of the spin to recover.
King_Hrothgar Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 I haven't noticed unrecoverable stalls but it does seem to get stuck at high AoA's sometimes without jamming the stick forwards. In any case, the only real difference I've noticed in the FM is LNS upped the control authority a bit. The initial version had way too much authority, the second clearly had too little, I suppose this version is about right. It will depart if you push it, but not without a heavy hand.
Golo Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Lot of ppl including me sometimes forget about trim. If you have high nose up trim when you stall it you push the stick but nothing happens, because you dont have much authority into nosing down. I constantly remind myself about my trim when flying.
FeistyLemur Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) I just did a crazy energy bleeding way too hard turn at 6g starting from 800kph and bleeding off till the lights were flashing and I was at 550kph and I didn't stall the plane. I imagine if you pull any harder than that and bleed off all your speed you're maybe pulling too hard? The plane does feel really spry and nice on the controls overall in my very limited testing of 1.5 I went back just now and I think I was able to duplicate what some people are talking about. I just pulled back crazy hard again from 800kph and at about 600 and 3/4 of the stick back it started flip flopping in the air back and forth with the stall lights flashing. I backed off and it straightened right out though. It's right around 600kph every time, if you're going wild on the stick and ignoring the stall lights it loses control and just kind of flips like a piece of paper flapping in the wind. Maybe this is realistic, I don't know. That's harder than I usually abuse the controls anyway. Looked a third time just now and I was able to get a mean stall going, this was when the AOA indicator blew past 30 which happens to be pretty easy to do below 600kph. So I'm thinking the answer is probably don't do that. I was able to black my pilot out with over g all the way down to that speed from 1000kph. Edited October 10, 2015 by FeistyLemur
Big Nuts Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 I get flamouts at around Mach2+(42k feet) Is there any way to avoid this, is it just not able to go beyond mach 2, even though it has the thrust ?
Tango3B Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Push the stick all the way forward and apply full rudder in the opposite direction of the spin to recover. No! This would send the aircraft into an inverted spin. The proper way of recovering a stall/spin in the MiG-21bis would be to immediately set the controls to neutral and hold(fix) them there. Also, leave throttle in the position it was when you entered the stall/spin. The aircraft then will recover from stall / spin by itself. It will enter a dive and will get controllable again at an airspeed around 450 km/h. Then advance the throttle and accelerate again. Altitude loss for stall recovery may be between 1500 -2000m and for spin recovery around 2000 -2800m. Drag chute use should be for emergency use, only. As with the current FM in 1.5 I find the stall/spin recovery not really suitable. In my opinion it needs tuning as when I follow the real life recovery procedure I cannot recover and in most cases I will crash. Aircraft recovery from normal spin should be accomplished after not more than one turn which amounts to 4 -5s when the proper method is used.
Santi871 Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 No! This would send the aircraft into an inverted spin. No, it won't. It's worked every single time and allows recoveries at not-so-high altitudes.
J7G Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Isn't the white painted line supposed to be for spin recovery?
159th_Falcon Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 I get flamouts at around Mach2+(42k feet) Is there any way to avoid this, is it just not able to go beyond mach 2, even though it has the thrust ? Not sure about the how and why but its normal. The real one has the same problem. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
Nerd1000 Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Not sure about the how and why but its normal. The real one has the same problem. All jets have a Mach limit. Air entering the intake at high speed gets compressed and heated. Compressing air in the compressor heats it up further- at speeds above the limit for the engine the temperature of the air can become high enough to soften the metal in the compressor blades. Prolonged operation under such conditions will make the engine explode. Another limitation is the velocity of the air at the compressor face. Most Jet engines don't like ingesting air that has a velocity of more than 0.8M or so- higher speeds might cause a compressor stall due to exceeding the critical mach of the compressor blades. Surging can flame out the engine. The intake is designed to decelerate the incoming air to an appropriate speed, but if you exceed its design limits it might not be able to do so. The MiG's flameout behavior might be one of the two above or it might be something else I don't know about. The surging is the one that seems more plausible to me, seeing as it is a flameout not an engine explosion. That said, you don't hear the compressor stall 'bang' noise when you flame the engine out from high mach (you want to hear it? try setting the nose cone to manual and putting the needle on 100% while stationary on the ground :D).
HugePanic Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Just to report an incident: I had a spin situation yesterday from about 11km height, so much room for experiments. I found the nothing worked (push stick forward with/without rudder/aileron in/against spin direction) as long as I had AFB on. After back to idle was able to recover plane, with aber 3000m left. So for me it is IDLE mandatory for spin recovery...
Tango3B Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Just to report an incident: I had a spin situation yesterday from about 11km height, so much room for experiments. I found the nothing worked (push stick forward with/without rudder/aileron in/against spin direction) as long as I had AFB on. After back to idle was able to recover plane, with aber 3000m left. So for me it is IDLE mandatory for spin recovery... Interesting! I will try to reproduce certain spins today when I come back home from work. But as I said the spin recovery procedure is not realistic at all at present. If Santi 871 is right and his method of recovery (which is admittedly applicable for most other aircraft) works then it is absolutely contrary to what the MiG-21's real life manual clearly states and advises you to do. This is also why I did not even think of trying his method. Maybe someone from LN could clarify things a little more...
Tango3B Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I did some tests and here is what I found: Santi871 is right with his statement. Recovery can currently only made by applying full opposite rudder and pushing the control stick fully forward at the same time. Throttle setting seems to be irrelevant. Other methods do not work. Recovery technique is the same for left and right spins. I did a quick video to show the results. Video shows also stall recovery at the end. LINK: https://youtu.be/bxucy1iTdok
Golo Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I did some tests and here is what I found: Santi871 is right with his statement. Recovery can currently only made by applying full opposite rudder and pushing the control stick fully forward at the same time. Throttle setting seems to be irrelevant. Other methods do not work. Recovery technique is the same for left and right spins. I did a quick video to show the results. Video shows also stall recovery at the end. LINK: https://youtu.be/bxucy1iTdok Yea they do especialy the one in manual. How can you explain to me that I was able to recover from spins (multiple times) with just setting all controls to neutral position? I took little bit more height than it should but still works.
OverStratos Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 The MiG could recover by applying rudder and pushing the stick, that´s for sure. But in the sim. In real life you will go all the way trough inverted spin or heavy oscillations that will bring past lunches to present.:joystick: I said that I was feeling the FM too sensitive and I guess is true.
hannibal Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 can some make a video of the Mig21 flaming out? :) thanks! find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
Kev2go Posted April 6, 2016 Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) i feel as if the ever since 1.5 and 2.0 that the mig 21 thrust and top speed feels somewhat underpowered, to what it was in 1.2 I find myself always traveling at high miliary- low afterburner, is Just enough power, to maintain 850ish km/h in level flight Emergency Afterburner - the right stuff to get past 900 km/h. Prior to you used to be able to regularly break 1000 km/h , without having to constantly use emergency burner. now that speed is just achievable when flying with an empty wing loading ( no missiles or drop tanks), and using emergency afterbuner for a while. turning it off it will very slowly but surely evnetually dip back under 1000 km/h Edited April 6, 2016 by Kev2go Build: Windows 10 64 bit Pro Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, WD 1TB HDD
Elwood Posted April 6, 2016 Posted April 6, 2016 Yep it's changed, also landing is kind of easy nowdays, better control at low speed, or I'm getting used to it :-D About spin, waiting to experience the F14 deadly spin, I notice that the audio feedback it's the best advice, the "BRUFFFRFRFFRRFRF" you can ear from high AOA.
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