SeaW0lf Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 I think you might be reading into what I posted a little too much. I think I read it right on the mark so it seems. -- Win10 Pro, Philips 298P4QJEB (2560X1080), i5-9600K, Zalman 9900NT, GA-Z390 UD, GTX 1060 GamingX 6GB, 16GB 3200Mhz CL16, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB, Corsair AX-750W, Carbide 300R, G940, TrackIR 5 --
OnlyforDCS Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) No one is asking for easily spottable aircraft at 15+nm away. What we need is something that is close to what real pilots would see from their cockpits, taking into account that we are obviously NOT sitting in a cockpit, but staring intently at tiny pixels on a flat screen with a very limited field of view, limited contrasts, limited color reproduction, etc. etc. etc. *disclaimer* I have to say that my visibility experience improved immensely once I went from a crappy Samsung 23" LED TN monitor, to a 27" AMVA monitor with great contrast. (both same res 1080p). I can keep track of bandits 90% of the time now in the merge, thats up from like 50% at best. I hardly lose them against the ground, though it does happen every now and again but nowhere near as often as before. And yes, I can even spot targets at 5-10nm with a very high degree of accuracy, which was nearly impossible for me just a few days ago. What Im trying to say is that our PC hardware seems to play an immense role in our visibility issues, and it shouldnt. It's one thing to simulate asymetrical warfare, it's quite another for the guy with the more expensive monitor to have an advantage. Edited May 15, 2017 by OnlyforDCS Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
SharpeXB Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 What Im trying to say is that our PC hardware seems to play an immense role in our visibility issues, and it shouldnt. But that will always be the case. A bigger higher res monitor will always be better. Sure the Devs can design the graphics to perform adequately across all of them. But better monitors will always be better. i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
iLOVEwindmills Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 What Im trying to say is that our PC hardware seems to play an immense role in our visibility issues, and it shouldnt. But that will always be the case. A bigger higher res monitor will always be better. Sure the Devs can design the graphics to perform adequately across all of them. But better monitors will always be better.Afaik that is not the case, you want pixels to be as large as possible. A top of the line 4k monitor would be much worse for that compared to a cheaper big 1080p monitor
SharpeXB Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 Afaik that is not the case, you want pixels to be as large as possible. A top of the line 4k monitor would be much worse for that compared to a cheaper big 1080p monitor 1 pixel at 1080p = 4 pixels at 2160p. It's not bigger pixels which are desirable but a sharper image. 1 black pixel at 2160p = 1 25% grey one at 1080p Have you seen this game on a 4K screen? Higher resolution is always better otherwise we would all still be gaming at 400x600 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
Decibel dB Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 Higher resolution is always better otherwise we would all still be gaming at 400x600 100% with you for the clarity, the crispness that is very useful to ID target and for the sheer beauty of the image. I don't agree to spot however. I had both and to get the same pixel density on a 4K you need a tv 4 time as big as my full HD previous monitor.
iLOVEwindmills Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 1 pixel at 1080p = 4 pixels at 2160p. It's not bigger pixels which are desirable but a sharper image. 1 black pixel at 2160p = 1 25% grey one at 1080p Have you seen this game on a 4K screen? Higher resolution is always better otherwise we would all still be gaming at 400x600 Wasn't the thing that the game would only draw a single pixel at long distances, giving the advantage to whatever monitor would produce the largest pixels? I also know certain comp players still use CRT monitors, though that doesn't directly relate to DCS.
OnlyforDCS Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) Sure the Devs can design the graphics to perform adequately across all of them. But better monitors will always be better. Sure, better monitors should obviously give a much better look to the game. But like you said, from a pure gameplay perspective the simulation should be designed to be usable and workable by all, as long as the minimum specs are met. This is unfortunately not the case at the moment, as I can definetively state from personal experience. Edited May 15, 2017 by OnlyforDCS 1 Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
chihirobelmo Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 1 pixel at 1080p = 4 pixels at 2160p. It's not bigger pixels which are desirable but a sharper image. 1 black pixel at 2160p = 1 25% grey one at 1080p Have you seen this game on a 4K screen? Higher resolution is always better otherwise we would all still be gaming at 400x600 How tally distance change when you reduce your Windows resolution to 1080p with your 4k monitor? I don't think sharper image without larger pixel size(as close as possible to 1:1) helps to find a target that much. I hear from Oculus user that finding a target is not a problem even they feel they need more resolution for VR.
Why485 Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 Afaik that is not the case, you want pixels to be as large as possible. A top of the line 4k monitor would be much worse for that compared to a cheaper big 1080p monitor I posted this earlier in the thread, so I'll post it again because it's relevant. Keep in mind that this is for the current 1.5/2.0. I don't know what the 2.1 Normandy alpha is doing because I don't have access to it. For the record, with the current system, resolution is an unintuitive tradeoff. With a lower resolution you will have an advantage in spotting objects at distance because the physical distance at which they get reduced to a dot is smaller, and the dot is bigger on the screen. With a higher resolution, you will have an advantage WVR as with more pixels you'll be able to better discern the low contrast plane from its background, and the plane will in general just have more pixels drawn for it.
SharpeXB Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 How tally distance change when you reduce your Windows resolution to 1080p with your 4k monitor? I don't think sharper image without larger pixel size(as close as possible to 1:1) helps to find a target that much. I hear from Oculus user that finding a target is not a problem even they feel they need more resolution for VR. What's interesting is 1080p or even 1440p upscaled to 4K looks noticeably soft. 1080p on a 1080p display looks sharp. There's a difference between sharpness and resolution if that makes sense. You perceive "sharpness" better on a screen with the signal set to the native resolution. Individual pixel sizes in either case are tremendously small. By the time you see the average contact it's several pixels in size. i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
ED Team NineLine Posted May 16, 2017 ED Team Posted May 16, 2017 Messing around with visibility in the Normandy Backers Early Access. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
David OC Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 Messing around with visibility in the Normandy Backers Early Access. Does it make much difference now when you change your screen resolution? i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link
OnlyforDCS Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 Messing around with visibility in the Normandy Backers Early Access. Slightly unrelated: Sith do you know are they going to fix the LOD B-17 models dissapearing and popping up by the time Normandy is released in early access for all? Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
Esac_mirmidon Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 For sure " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
ED Team NineLine Posted May 16, 2017 ED Team Posted May 16, 2017 Slightly unrelated: Sith do you know are they going to fix the LOD B-17 models dissapearing and popping up by the time Normandy is released in early access for all? It's fixed internally. So should be. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
OnlyforDCS Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 It's fixed internally. So should be. Thanks Sith! :thumbup: Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
OnlyforDCS Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 People, what do you think about the visibility in 2.1? I've only flown the Normandy map so far in multiplayer in 2.1 and I think that it's quite improved from what we had in 1.5/2.0 I do think that some more tweaks might be required, due to the lighting engine. As the planes still seem to quite easily dissapear when against the ground at a certain distance. About 1-2 miles out. Thoughts? Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
captain_dalan Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 Not having flown it at all (just watched a couple of streams and uploads), it does look improved. However, i'll wait for a larger sample before i decide. Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache, F4U Corsair, WWII Assets Pack
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted June 2, 2017 ED Team Posted June 2, 2017 People, what do you think about the visibility in 2.1? I've only flown the Normandy map so far in multiplayer in 2.1 and I think that it's quite improved from what we had in 1.5/2.0 I do think that some more tweaks might be required, due to the lighting engine. As the planes still seem to quite easily dissapear when against the ground at a certain distance. About 1-2 miles out. Thoughts? Personally feel it is much better now, I find picking out targets much easier, and dog fights are no problem. I think you will find it even easier once you get the gamma slider in the public builds. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
OnlyforDCS Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 Agreed Bignewy. Still feel that the dissapearing game is too easily acomplished when flying below cloud cover and over the patchwork fields. For example, the other day I was tangling with a Spitfire, and managed to score a couple of hits with a head on deflection shot. As he shot past me I assume he dived as I completely lost him. We were quite high too, at least 3 km up. I really wish servers would run some different conditions other than 12' o clock High Noon, as in those conditions I imagine it is probably very difficult to pick up a small aircraft against the ground clutter. Maybe just a little bit of extra contrast for the models would also go a long way. I will accept that this was a problem in real life too. I've heard that HDR off also improves spotting a little bit, depending on the angle etc? But Im loath to turn it off and test it as I really like it. Anyone test it? Also MSAA OFF or x2? I've been running with OFF since 1.5 as it blended distant dots into the background. But Im willing to take a performance hit if it improves spotting or at least doesn't ruin it. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted June 2, 2017 ED Team Posted June 2, 2017 12' o clock High Noon sun does make it more difficult, at lower levels I tend to find shadows of aircraft before the aircraft, but spotting against a background is supposed to be difficult and part of the challenge. In 2.1 I have been trying various settings, but started using MSAA OFF and getting a good fps boost. ED are still tweaking so this variable will change as things are fixed or tweaked Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
SeaW0lf Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 Agreed Bignewy. Still feel that the dissapearing game is too easily acomplished when flying below cloud cover and over the patchwork fields. I agree. I need to fly more -- and the visibility improved --, but the initial impression is that aircraft contrast over terrain is still an issue, and I mean somewhat nearby aircraft or in dogfighting, like you mentioned. But like I said, I need to fly more. -- Win10 Pro, Philips 298P4QJEB (2560X1080), i5-9600K, Zalman 9900NT, GA-Z390 UD, GTX 1060 GamingX 6GB, 16GB 3200Mhz CL16, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB, Corsair AX-750W, Carbide 300R, G940, TrackIR 5 --
OnlyforDCS Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Another quick report now that I've had some more time with 2.1 & Normandy, on the Burning Skies Server. The spotting of low flying targets from 10k+ altitudes is very, very difficult. Close to impossible. I would say it is even harder than in 1.5. As a result furballs have moved even lower than ever before. This will probably be addressed when the WWII period units get full functionality. (Especially the bombers) P.S. With that said once you are engaged it is much easier to keep track of targets and stay on someone. People don't dissapear unless their camo really blends into the background, which is as it should be. Edited June 9, 2017 by OnlyforDCS Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
SeaW0lf Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) With that said once you are engaged it is much easier to keep track of targets and stay on someone. People don't dissapear unless their camo really blends into the background, which is as it should be. Perhaps on a 27' monitor, because for me it did not change much from the 1.5. Same problem, same ghost planes when against the terrain. It did improve because the map has more contrast. The dots are better, the contrast of the map helps a lot (using deferred shading - the realist option with no blinders), the aircrafts seems to be better rendered, and it helps, but only if they are nearby or on your six. When doing scissors, it is easy to lose a plane. The other day I was watching a plane approach the airfield, and in one scissor I lost it. I found the shadow (mine is flat), but I could not find the plane. I was flying low. It just disappeared. I could look at the sun to calculate the position of the shadow to find him, but I just thought it was pointless. The other day I was jumped by a 109 and I did a slight scissor. He dove below me and disappeared against the terrain. I just saw him back when he came up on the horizon further on. In another occasion I was on a furball at the docs (maybe six planes) and it was a strain to keep track of planes. I mistook a damage plane with a smoke column from a blast afar -- smoke from damaged planes seems to move out of rhythm of things, like an animation of a biker that pedals faster than the bike moves (sort of). It creates an optical illusion. It was way worse on 1.5 (smoke from damaged planes), but it is still not realistic on 2.1. The problem persists as I see it. And it is not my settings or my monitor. I'm flying elsewhere with nice results. In fact I though these things (normal visibility) were a given. Edited June 9, 2017 by SeaW0lf 1 -- Win10 Pro, Philips 298P4QJEB (2560X1080), i5-9600K, Zalman 9900NT, GA-Z390 UD, GTX 1060 GamingX 6GB, 16GB 3200Mhz CL16, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB, Corsair AX-750W, Carbide 300R, G940, TrackIR 5 --
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