New (Legacy) SAMs

[GaryIKILLYOU]

What would ED's response be to the inquiry of adding in older generation SAM systems into DCS World? With the amount of legacy aircraft coming out, I feel it would be prudent to add in legacy SAM systems (as well as older AAA and AA systems (KS-19 immediately comes to mind for this one)). Some examples of these are of course the legendary SA-2, the rather strange looking SA-4, and the bane of NORAD known as the SA-5. Other NATO systems could include the Nike Ajax and Nike Hercules, as well as the British Thunderbird and Bloodhound systems. Would also be a change of pace to have to deal with the British Javelin or Blowpipe. What do you guys think? :)

[Aginor]

Yes, of course.

I once made a thread with a list of stuff in it.... Must have been a few years ago already I think.

 

EDIT: This thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2225335

Edited March 8, 2016 by Aginor

[WinterH]

A resounding yes from me. SA-2 of various versions, may be some SA-4 too, older generation MANPADS like Redeye and Strela (SA-7) etc are getting more and more important to have, especially as we are having more 3rd generation aircraft joining the DCS stable.

 

Even without thinking of 3rd gen aircraft, they would still be necessary for simulating COIN operations and / or operations on low capability adversaries with more modern aircraft.

 

I would prefer them to be mid quality models though, it is expensive and time consuming to create top quality models for everything, and instead of having just 3-4 old missile systems, I'd love to have as many of them as possible.

 

Though, the onus may be shared and not need to be only on ED themselves, since LN, and eventually VEAO intent to release maps, I would expect them to add some of them themselves.

[GaryIKILLYOU]

A resounding yes from me. SA-2 of various versions, may be some SA-4 too, older generation MANPADS like Redeye and Strela (SA-7) etc are getting more and more important to have, especially as we are having more 3rd generation aircraft joining the DCS stable.

 

Even without thinking of 3rd gen aircraft, they would still be necessary for simulating COIN operations and / or operations on low capability adversaries with more modern aircraft.

 

I would prefer them to be mid quality models though, it is expensive and time consuming to create top quality models for everything, and instead of having just 3-4 old missile systems, I'd love to have as many of them as possible.

 

Though, the onus may be shared and not need to be only on ED themselves, since LN, and eventually VEAO intent to release maps, I would expect them to add some of them themselves.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the SA-3 was a mod from beczl "back in the day". With that in mind, I wouldn't mind the third party developers to also take some of the reigns and pump out some of these units for their map-packs that are free. I feel like not being able to have certain AI units because of a paywall could create issues with mission designers; otherwise I'd say have them included with the pay-for modules as a design choice.

 

Edit: Thank you for the link Aginor. Looks like our threads almost mirror each other exactly.

Edited March 8, 2016 by GaryIKILLYOU

[WinterH]

SA-3 have been in sim for quite a long time actualy, but I seem to recall studio beczl was intenting to bring SA-2 among other things.

 

I too have been thinking opening a thread on this subject for quite sometime but always forgot about it when I login to forum.

 

I also hope we can get some older warships too, cold war era destroyers etc.

[McBlemmen]

It's mandatory. I didn't play much DCS before the whole "DCS World merger" but the A-10C and black shark packages both felt complete with units to populate missions , and since DCS world became a thing none of the new modules have had any AI units to go with it and i don't understand why. Most noticable with WW2 aircraft but it applies to everything

[Silver_Dragon]

Yes, WinterH was correct, Beczl was plan to add Sa-2 SAM site, other AAA (S-60 and ZSU-57-2 CA compatible) and other stuff with the Mig-21Bis, but that model was drop as Beclz Studios close.

[MBot]

Defenitely. From a mission designers point of view, the SA-2 will become very important in the future and should be priority. Next would be SA-5 (to complete the PVO arsenal of SA-2/3/5/10), SA-4 (Army and Army Group level air defense) and SA-7 (rear aspect MANPADS).

[QuiGon]

I strongly agree! Some older SAMs are realy needed!

[pepin1234]

We need a second Beczl in DCS. This guy made a lot stuff for this community. The S-75 and Scub mods from Beczl were awesome mods.

[Pikey]

Rated thread 5/5 for awesome. The SA2 and SA5 definitely are missed, esp with good things happening in that era.

 

Might I suggest SCUDs and V2 rockets could be put here too :) Don't get more infamous than those.

[Eddie]

Absolutely essential in my view. I'd like to see everything from SA-1 though to SA-23 (SA-24 is already in, albeit named wrongly) and the same for NATO.

 

Heavy calibre AAA is also greatly missed (S60, KS-12, KS-19 etc.). We also need all the associated EWR and control RADARs.

 

Older systems aren't only needed for the older aircraft, but also to create scenarios for modern stuff. The single digit Russain systems are still very prevelant accross the world, especially in the Middle East (Straight of Hormuz comes to mind).

[SimFreak]

I'm sure those items are on a wishlist. Problem is matching manpower to wishes. Priority is some where else now.

[Silver_Dragon]

I'm sure those items are on a wishlist. Problem is matching manpower to wishes. Priority is some where else now.

 

Thats correct, have a "titanic" wishlist (aircraft's, helos, vehicles, ships, features, etc, etc....) on the ToDo of Eagle Dynamics, (and your private professional projects).

[Sryan]

would also like some more western stuff, par example:

 

- RBS 70 ( also by being a laserbeam riding SAM it would be a SHORAD unit that the Ka-50 could detect and defend against ).

 

- Bofors 40 L/70 to rival with Zu positions

[Northstar98]

Would love anything SAM for DCS, SA-2 would be a great start.

[cichlidfan]

Since we need period units in a broader sense, this is redundant.

[Aginor]

I also think that if we would have to choose just two air defense systems, it would be the SA-2 and an ~80mm flak.

 

That's because those two alone could fill the two huge empty spaces that we have in the simulation right now concerning air defense.

- SAM suitable for all kinds of situations, but a BAD one.

- Gun for high altitudes

 

All others can be easily modded once the general functionality is there (just look at the awesome WW2 tanks modders created!). I would even say the time-fuzed or altitude-fuzed shrapnel gun is more important than the SA-2 since all those guns are very similar but impossible to create as units right now.

[GaryIKILLYOU]

I'm sure those items are on a wishlist. Problem is matching manpower to wishes. Priority is some where else now.

I figured as much. With the L-39 getting it's finishing touches, NTTR and 2.0 being polished off, and work on the F/A-18C running at a steady (albeit silent (this is a good thing, you know they're crunching when they're not spending time posting screenshots)) pace as well as anything else that hasn't been confirmed I'd imagine it's low on the totem pole. Still I think it should be at least a moderate priority given the flexibility of mission design that adding a few legacy AA systems can add. :thumbup:

[apolloace]

The SA-2 is still in service with the Chinese along with a lot of other countries like Bulgaria, Cuba, Iran etc. according to Wikipedia.

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina

 

Even the SA-5 (S-200) is still serving with the Russians along with India, Bulgaria and a host of other nations.

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200_(missile)

 

This shows that these weapon systems are still very much relevant in modern combat.

So, if incorporated in DCS, it will only be appropriate, and will simulate a wide variety of force dispositions which will be highly realistic.

 

Also with the SA-2 & SA-5, I would very much like the SCUD in DCS. :)

 

Anybody from ED will like to comment or discuss?

 

[Skjold]

I would love all legacy stuff, but by far the most important one is the SA-2.

[Vincent90]

We need a second Beczl in DCS.

Wasn't he the guy who took the Mig-21bis IndieGoGo money and ran away with it? :D

[Aginor]

Maybe. Actually we don't really know what happened there. But since in the end all the backers basically got what they pledged for I guess we can leave that one as some obscure thing that happened in the past.

 

Whatever.

The stuff he did before that point was really awesome, including some ground objects pack. He did loads of stuff as a modder, and I really miss his inputs.

But hey, we have so many other talented modders to do such things, like Ranger79, Lilkiki, upuaut, Markindel and some more. If something is possible in DCSW it gets done.

....which leads back to the original problem. Some stuff is just not possible at the moment. ED needs to create the "framework" to do so.

[cichlidfan]

But since in the end all the backers basically got what they pledged for I guess we can leave that one as some obscure thing that happened in the past.

 

Really? I don't think so. Would you like a list of rewards that have not been produced?

[Aginor]

That's why I wrote "basically". I meant that Leatherneck gave them keys for the module even though they didn't have the money. AFAIK the physical stuff was not delivered.

 

Anyway, that's not the topic of the thread, which is why I don't want to elaborate on that further if you agree. It was a dark age of DCSW and I am glad that at least we got something out of that project at all.