F-15 & 120C...

[npole]

...any good server with 120C disabled? It's like playing the noob mode now, you see only "killed by 120C" on every single server out there! :D

[mrsteel]

Keep an eye on the 104th sometimes they have a mission going that bans 120's but still allows 27ER's (not sure but i think 27et's are banned too)

[OldE24]

Keep an eye on the 104th sometimes they have a mission going that bans 120's but still allows 27ER's (not sure but i think 27et's are banned too)

 

Bison east vs west is the map....no ET no 120....

[WindyTX]

I would like to second this request. Active missile take all the fun out out of Air to Air. In the old days pre Amraam ( yep I am that old) 50% of the time we ended up in a visual merge. And sometimes we would go out and do Golfs and Guns just for A/C handling plus :).

 

Active missiles are great in the real world where you dont actually want to get shot !!!

 

But comeon this is a simulation cant we stick to the early nineties pre Amraam when Air to Air was a blast.

 

At missile timeout you are always in visual range and the PK's are pretty low so visual combat is the order of the day.

 

Amraams are great if dont want to actually fly the Aircraft . There was even talk about putting missile on an airliner cos it could carry so many missiles and with such long ranges who needs to manouvre !!!!

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[Wrecking Crew]

Interesting... You are desiring only AIM-7s and or AIM-9s? What would be the corresponding loadout for a Su-27 and MiG-29, or, what Russian missiles should be left off along with the U.S. AIM-120's?

 

Thanks, WC

[Shively]

I thought it was already accepted that the R-27R and R-27T were the proper counterparts to the AIM-7 in DCS.

 

The AIM-7M even has a longer range than both of those missiles, being advantaged by some 4 nautical miles. Hell, the AIM-7M even has a longer range than the R-77.

[Sweep]

^So you're saying the R-27R has a 2nmi range? ;)

[Ktulu2]

And here starts the talk about FCS : Aim-4 Combat Simulator

[Shively]

Sweep, missile performance varies as ED refuses to fix their missiles, I don't really want to get into an argument here, I was just trying to answer his question

 

You just can't resist, can you?

[Sweep]

Sweep, missile performance varies as ED refuses to fix their missiles, I don't really want to get into an argument here, I was just trying to answer his question

 

You just can't resist, can you?

 

I don't want to get into it either, just a lame attempt at missile humor. :)

 

Seriously, though, Sparrows are more fun (than 120s & whatnot) because of said modeling...:thumbup:

[VentZer0]

Encounters are way more fun, tho the MIKE's are ****ing annoying. Seems you can fire them almost as far as the Sparrow in head on engagement.

 

AIM7 vs R27ERs is very nice like in Operation BISON on the 104th, however it tends to be very empty during this mission. You know, give the russians the edge for ONCE and F15-fanbois leave :P

[QuiGon]

Operation BlueFlag is running its 80s version atm: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167590

[winchesterdelta1]

I dont know what you guy's are doing if you are being shot in DCS with a AIM-120C from BVR. It's just poor piloting. Every day i fight MIG-29 and SU-27 pilots and other F-15. Every flight i'm in a WVR fight or merged cause i fail to hit them with AIM-120C. It takes a lot of skill to deploy the AIM-120C against somebody that knows what he is doing. But it takes no skill shooting a AIM-120C against somebody that has no clue what he is doing and how DCS missiles work. I encountered SU-27's and MIG-29 pilots being superior against AIM-120C platform. Shooting 4 down in a row. And those guy's they shot where very experienced.

 

You know why????????? They anticipate the moves of their enemy. They know how the weapon works and what their strong and weak points are. Stop complaining and fight like a man and get some experience. Way more rewarding than keep complaining to take shit away other people like to use and call them noobs and un skill full. And taking away AIM-120C is only going to help you against un skilled F-15 pilots. The experienced ones will still r*** you left and right with AIM-7.

[0xDEADBEEF]

winchesterdelta, I don't think you are wrong with what you say. But I think this is not the place to bring this kind of discussion up one more time. Removing the 120 from a Server creates a different kind of fight, skill or no skill, period. You can argue as much as much as you want, this is a simple and easy to proof fact. You will see different tactics applied, you will see more merges, and I personally find it at lot of fun!

 

just to bring up some points:

- you cant see the aim120 visually, Aim7 makes the same smoke plume as 27, its much easier if you see something coming.

- f15 can't peform a split s without giving up the missile, this puts you one or two steps ahead compared to 120 available, since you don't need to deal with the missile, you will be offensive right away

- BVR with reduced range weapons is naturally more intense

 

I think it is perfectly valid to ask for that kind of servers, it is definitely no sign of bad piloting skills, like it seems you want to imply.

[Stuge]

Actually in the Eagle vs Flanker face off, the advantage gets decided by the terrain. Neither has a universal advantage, amraam or no amraam.

 

Flat favors Eagle, mountains favor Flanker. 104th server Op Leopard is perfect for a Flanker mountain flight, with a little luck you get ace in a flight :)

 

The same fact was proven in the earlier Blue Flag restricted weapons round (No 120, ER, ET) where once again Eagles were quite dominant in the open, but facing off against a group of Flankers in the hills often felt very suicidal and for good reason :):):)

[winchesterdelta1]

I totlaly agree with you 0xDEADBEEF if this was the case. But look how his request is asked. 120C noobs.. blablabla.. F-15 noobs leaving server blabla. He did not ask if people want to setup a only SAR cold war server to simulate those environments. Most of the times people suggest this because they get shot down by AIM-120C a lot. So they want the 120C out. Because then they think they will fare better. But they won't. They will only fare better against the non experienced ones. If you want your satisfaction out of that is your own choice of course. But it seems kind of cheap. You can see this in the missons only SAR is allowed F-15 against Russian jets. They say all the AIM-120C noobs leave. But at that point the F-15 guy's that stay around put up a pretty good fight with their AIM-7 and a lot of times they are equal. But totally outnumbered. So the conclusion is that they only like SAR fights when they are in superior numbers. Cause only then they suddenly feel they have a chance to win and have a more fun type of fight. If that is the reason you have to question your pilot skills (not directed to you).

 

Maybe time to start simulating the fighter pilot spirit instead of only demanding plane realism and than complain when you get it. If you really want a server like this maybe they should stop depending on other servers and start their own. If you can not afford it you fight with what you have and get or leave. And if you stay and fight, fight till your the last MoFo breathing.

 

And a Stuge said.. terrain is really important factor. I always fear for my V live in hills. But on the flats they better play it extra smart with a extra wingman or two.

Edited June 10, 2016 by winchesterdelta1

[Oceandar]

I've been shot down by ET alot....can we remove it also....lol.

 

Gam Zeh Ya'avor - King Salomon

[will-]

this game is bland enough. real question is why isn't there more payloads and tools to use........

 

then again it would be nice to at least use the f-15 with tws and not suffer from 12 fps.

[Kayos]

No, the real question is when will DCS look at fixing some of the missiles?

[*Rage*]

Anyone suggesting the 120C gives no advantage to its user is talking out of his ass. Its the only missile in game with good range AND good tracking (CM immune). As in real life, it gives a huge advantage in DCS.

 

Sorry, but true.

[WindyTX]

Deleted my post as not making a relevant contribution.

Edited June 13, 2016 by WindyTX
Inconsequential

[gavagai]

it gives a huge advantage in DCS.

 

Yes, and that's why most of the modern combat servers have F-15s on both sides. If the DCS F-15 had a real TWS mode the imbalance would be even worse.

[Ktulu2]

Well...Active VS Active is a lot of fun too... The thing is that at the time I'm guessing FC3 planes are (1996 for AIM-120C) Russia was in the first stages of the R-77...Wish we could make every plane a bit yougner and have 27SM and Data-link on the 15.

[SFJackBauer]

Actually my experience is 2000 hours Air Defence in the Real world.

 

I used to do this for a living don't have much time to sit and study exactly how DCS has modeled the Aim 120c or any other missile as I spend a lot of time flying a 777.

 

I just know that in the real world Aim 120's sucked the fun out of air to air and I am here to have fun. I seem to be finding the same thing on the multiplayer servers.

 

Sorry if my real world experience and your your experience of DCS don't match up ;)

 

:rolleyes:

 

Your definition of fun isn't his definition of fun isn't mine definition of fun. My definition of fun is having active air-to-air missiles.

 

Everyone here has some "background", either civilian or military. You don't see everybody waving their badges all the time because it isn't necessary and, well, isn't good form.

 

DCS has a variety of planes, ranging from Korea War to Gulf War. You can fly the F-86/MiG-15/MiG-21 if you dont like radar guided missiles. However the multiplayer servers are not owned by ED, they are owned and paid for by their owners, and the choice of aircraft is theirs. However some of them do accept feedback from the community, as long as you are respectful and polite.

[VentZer0]

If russian missiles were modelled realistically, then they would be a match for the 120s. I do not mean the drag coefficient. I mean the technology, the software and guidance. R27ERs and ETs have passive datalink guided modes that go pure pursuit til in terminal phase. This is a lot harder to defeat than lead pursuit missiles that go SARH after launch. AFAIK the tracking can be shared. The launch platform fires the missile and the missile gets supported by a buddy su27.

 

But aside from all the realworld modelling. ONE THING that no one can talk away or bursh over in this debate is the fact that AIM120 are pretty much lagproof. What do I mean by that. AIM120 can be fired without having achieved a lock, when they go pitbull they'll start looking for targets and if they found one they go for it.

Now when a plane lags out in multiplayer the AIM120 looses its guidance from the F15, but it turns over to autonomous. Which means it continues to fly in the same direction with active radar. It pretty much carries on unimpeded.

 

The SU27 and its R27R's or R27ER's go completely apeshit once a target lags around and if you lose lock, the missile is gone. No reacquiring possible.

 

Lags do not happen in reallife but in DCS they are a common occurance and this is why active vs passive is always favoring the active side.