MiG-21 1.5.4 Major Upgrade & Changelog

[Buzzles]

.... and apart from rubberband speed limit of Ma 2.05 we couldn't exceed, apart from wonky AoA behaviour at high speeds, apart from spins going into flat spins, which went supersonic and ended with explosion, apart from other things...

 

Let's not look at the 1.2.x times through rose-tinted glasses. The initial FM had its strong points, but it had equally many weak points and I wouldn't want to go back even if someone paid me. The current one seems to be good, just needs a few tweaks here and there.

 

^^

 

This. Current one (well, 1.5.4 OB from last week) feels really good. Couple of niggles, but it's really fun to fly with now.

[Golo]

.... and apart from rubberband speed limit of Ma 2.05 we couldn't exceed, apart from wonky AoA behaviour at high speeds, apart from spins going into flat spins, which went supersonic and ended with explosion, apart from other things...

 

Let's not look at the 1.2.x times through rose-tinted glasses. The initial FM had its strong points, but it had equally many weak points and I wouldn't want to go back even if someone paid me. The current one seems to be good, just needs a few tweaks here and there.

 

Yes, it had bugs (speed limit was not bug it was artificially induced), but in its core it much better represented MiG-21 characteristics, well at least if compared to manuals I have.

[bkthunder]

I don't get how the FM has gone through some "bipolar" changes. What is the realistic one??

I don't know what to believe, slow roll rate, super-fast roll rate, high-alpha...

[humptydumpty]

I don't get how the FM has gone through some "bipolar" changes. What is the realistic one??

I don't know what to believe, slow roll rate, super-fast roll rate, high-alpha...

 

I am in the same boat :)

[Nerd1000]

Yep, they've changed the sample. I wish they chose different one though, as now it sounds as if it had much lower ROF than the real thing.

I'm pretty sure that this is because the MiG uses the default guns sound effect rather than its own effect.

[simapajik]

I think Mig-21 needs a truly realistic sound. Modules such as Mi-8 MTV, Mirage 2000C, F-5E Tiger II have really realistic sounds. Just compare the sound layman via youtube. Even a layman knows that Extrenal sound module is irrelevant. External sound to MiG-21bis would assign the default module DCSW, Sukhoi Su-25T. :huh:

[Hook47]

I know LNS has a former MiG 21 pilot on the team, or maybe access to one... Can't remember exactly... but I think we still need to realize that even with a former pilot it may take time and a lot of work to get the FM to a place were it matches documented performance along with pilot anecdotes. Sometimes I feel former aviators get a little too much authority with regard to how a sim aircraft flies, because remember exactly how a plane flew in detail can be difficult when trying to explain or project that experience into a sim. Additionally, it's been many years since some of these folks have flown said aircraft, and as a real world pilot if you asked me to recreate in detial he FM of a plane I have flown years ago, it would be a challenge to say the lease.

 

I've also read a few posts saying they miss the less forgiving and less stable versions of the flight model, but seems I have read in more than one account the MiG was a very stable and forgiving platform, so perhaps those renditions were off in that respect.

[MBot]

I know LNS has a former MiG 21 pilot on the team, or maybe access to one... Can't remember exactly... but I think we still need to realize that even with a former pilot it may take time and a lot of work to get the FM to a place were it matches documented performance along with pilot anecdotes. Sometimes I feel former aviators get a little too much authority with regard to how a sim aircraft flies, because remember exactly how a plane flew in detail can be difficult when trying to explain or project that experience into a sim. Additionally, it's been many years since some of these folks have flown said aircraft, and as a real world pilot if you asked me to recreate in detial he FM of a plane I have flown years ago, it would be a challenge to say the lease.

 

LNS has an active duty MiG-21Bis pilot as their FM programmer.

[Hadwell]

I had a pretty fun fight with a su-27 on saturday on 104th...

 

I picked him up about 20km away, then dove into a valley and flanked him out of sight, we got within gun range and did a few head-on passes, he fired missiles at me, but they all hit the side of a hill, twice he flew passed my nose, the 2nd time I hit him with my cannons, and damaged him enough that he couldn't get me off his six, so i finished him off with an R-13M1...

 

yeah the mig-21 is fun again.

[Tango3B]

 

yeah the mig-21 is fun again.

 

 

It sure is. Personally, I have nothing bad to say about the MiG-21bis in 1.5.4. stable release version. Even the ASP does work. The only thing apparent to me is the really slow roll rate which seems to be substantially slower than before. As delta wing fighters normally should have an excellent roll rate by design this seems a little odd to me. Some clarification on that issue ("downgrading") by a dev would be very much appreciated.

 

The problem with substantially less capable missiles (tracking rate etc.) seems to be a global one and not unique to the MiG-21. Apparently ED did something really weird to the missiles.

 

So, there is no reason to keep bashing LN for not doing their homework. The MiG-21bis is perfectly flyable in its current state and finally I have much fun using it in mp, again.

[firmek]

How Leatherneck manage their change log is up to them, but I agree information is easier to manage in a locked thread, it can be discussed still in another.

 

if you see a post that you think is breaking the forum rules use the report post function on the left of that post and the moderators will take a look at it.

Leatherneck please start a closed thread for communicating the progress on development. This will make life easier for you and allow readers to get a complete picture with just a quick glance at your post.

After 200 posts in the thread it's difficult to understand what the actual situation is. The saved time we can use for flying the fishbed

[RNeves]

At least someone thinks the same way as I do about the new FM...

 

[Wizard_03]

At least someone thinks the same way as I do about the new FM...

 

 

 

Haha seriously amen

[humptydumpty]

How are we supposed to know if the updated flight model is correct or no.

[cichlidfan]

How are we supposed to know if the updated flight model is correct or no.

 

Cobra will tell you. :P

[NeilWillis]

Or you could always go out and buy a real MiG-21 and compare it!

[cichlidfan]

Or you could always go out and buy a real MiG-21 and compare it!

 

Indeed! Also, unlike the A-10C and some of the others, if you have the cash, you can probably find one for sale. :D

[humptydumpty]

Or you could always go out and buy a real MiG-21 and compare it!

 

:megalol:

[SFC Tako]

At least someone thinks the same way as I do about the new FM...

 

 

Dude, you found it! The internet is strong in you :)

[RNeves]

How are we supposed to know if the updated flight model is correct or no.

 

If a mig pilot is involved, maybe he is the ideal person to deliver an acurate FM. If changes are made to the FM, maybe someone said something is wrong.

And by making changes to some parameters, maybe other parameters get unexpectedly affected...

 

I face this as an ever evolving process

 

Dude, you found it! The internet is strong in you :)

 

It was another victim of one of my video streaks...

 

I laughed alot with the description.

 

Channel subbed

Edited July 13, 2016 by RNeves

[Art-J]

Being a good pilot doesn't automatically make the ultimate software programmer, as these jobs are not exactly similar, are they :D. I remember the old 476th FG podcast with LN team and got an impression of Novak being very dedicated to the the subject, but I'm sure even he learns all the time how to translate his real MiG-flying experiences into the proper FM, given all the quirks of the programming language and the code of this sim.

[RNeves]

Being a good pilot doesn't automatically make the ultimate software programmer, as these jobs are not exactly similar, are they :D. I remember the old 476th FG podcast with LN team and got an impression of Novak being very dedicated to the the subject, but I'm sure even he learns all the time how to translate his real MiG-flying experiences into the proper FM, given all the quirks of the programming language and the code of this sim.

 

Of course that there is a huge difference between being a pilot and a programmer...

 

But if you were a fighter pilot and responsible for the flight model of a module of the aircraft you fly or flew, would you approve an unacurate flight model??

 

If it was me and I saw something was wrong with the FM, it would have to be changed... Even if not right away..

[BadHabit]

What is wrong with the FM??

 

Mig-21 Headbutter

[probad]

how can we know the people criticizing the fm are correct or not????????

 

just a bunch of armchair manchildren with half developed sense of imagination going off their fantasies based on some wikipedia articles, cherrypicked graphs and eyeball aerodynamics, motivated by nothing more than their own unwillingness to learn and adapt because it damages their self-esteem to move out of their established comfort zone.

 

real credible right there

Edited July 13, 2016 by probad

[RNeves]

What is wrong with the FM??

 

Mig-21 Headbutter

 

how can we know the people criticizing the fm are correct or not????????

 

just a bunch of armchair manchildren with half developed sense of imagination going off their fantasies based on some wikipedia articles, cherrypicked graphs and eyeball aerodynamics, motivated by nothing more than their own unwillingness to learn and adapt because it damages their self-esteem to move out of their established comfort zone.

 

real credible right there

 

Don't know if it was for me.... but if it was, go back and read comment #212...