Cheats: AUTO Aerial refueling

[Schmidtfire]

A command similar to the autostart/autostop sequence. But will initiate air-air refuel and guide the plane to contact the last couple of meters/feet. Is it a cheat? Yes! But a lot of players won't ever be able to do proper air-air refueling due to low quality joysticks. And for the hardcore simmers, it should be a server-side setting in MP if allowed or not.

 

Just one way to make the battlefield more interesting for everybody. I see way to little A-A refueling going on the MP servers.

[shagrat]

Good idea, as with the auto startup and shutdown, it can be an option.

There are times, when you join a server for the 3rd or 4th time as people rearrange themselves or the server hangs after a couple of minutes, etc.

That is, when I often use auto start and concentrate on route planning on the map, changing load out in parallel.

[SharpeXB]

Having trouble with AAR is likely more just lack of practice than hardware related. If your joystick is good enough to hold your aim on a target, it's good enough for AAR.

If your joystick is that bad, then a replacement is in order. I realized my joystick was worn out when I couldn't hit balloons in RoF. But if you can hit a stationary target, it's not the stick, it's just lack of practice.

[bzhnono]

SharpeXB : your answer is off topic. Yes, lots of person know how to AAR, lots less succeed in AAR every time and many can't get any fuel from AAR because it's hard and need practice (especially at night, with wind).

How does that answer the fact that this little "cheat" could be good for MP servers ?

[Winston 60]

I agree. I would like to have this as an option/training aid.

 

As far as joystick inadequacy goes, it's not my joystick that prevents me from AA refueling.... it's my X-52 Pro throttle. Just the smallest almost in-perceivable movement forward to increase speed.... and it's too much. Then the tinest bit to the rear to slow..... and it's slowed to much. I've tried all kinds of axis tweaking and I just can't get my speed to match the Tanker.

[shagrat]

Well, I am perfectly capable of starting the Hog manually, since early beta access. Nonetheless, I sometimes use the autostart feature now and then, either because I don't have so much time before the night ends and I have to get to work, or because I'm not interested in the startup, but want to finish my drink and sandwich, for example...

 

With AAR, I am sure, that after a couple month of practicing I will be as good at AAR as with startup, landing, or whatever.

Just like a lot of other people, I simple have no "couple of month" to spare with work, family, translating missions, testing modules, etc. having a higher priority.

 

So a little "cheat" that CAN be allowed as an option is a pretty good idea. Currently we need to split flights in MP to AAR freaks and RTB refuelers, or some just crash the plane and use a fresh one, as it saves the time for the flight back (I don't. btw).

 

The idea of an OPTION to allow normal players, that have difficuties with AAR to participate in longer missions, is most welcome!

 

If purists want to disable this option on their squadron servers, that is absolutely ok.

 

To each his own. :thumbsup:

[MegOhm_SD]

Agree. This wish list item would be a good option to have in certain cases.

I would be surprised if it is ever coded into the sim. I'm not sure what that entails.

 

We talking about code for every Jet? Hmmmm.

Edited September 8, 2016 by MegOhm_SD

[uscstaylor]

I welcome this option as well, there's no harm in it by adding this option. Heck it would give me the chance to pee if I had to...lol

[SkateZilla]

Refueling is easy, Fly formation, use trim for small adjustments, let the boom operator do the work.

 

This is a Simulator, there likely wont be anymore "Cheats" Added, This includes: Auto refuel, Auto Landing, Auto Take Off etc.

 

Auto Startup is simply a Macro List of Commands, it's not actually flying the aircraft.

Edited September 8, 2016 by SkateZilla

[[Knight]]

I don't agree with this, how are you supposed to better yourself as a pilot if you use a cheat like this, its not a training tool it is simply just lazy. Yes, some joysticks are more accurate than others, so if u have a crap joystick add some curve then practice eventually you will get it. Practice makes perfect. Why take the flight out of flight sim. This might be blunt, no hard feelings to all that think its a good idea, just my 2 cents.

[ebabil]

when i first suggested this, i was beaten to death :D

 

it would be good for giving a break during mp sessions. otherwise don't see often players making aar execpt training purposes

[SharpeXB]

SharpeXB : your answer is off topic. Yes, lots of person know how to AAR, lots less succeed in AAR every time and many can't get any fuel from AAR because it's hard and need practice (especially at night, with wind).

How does that answer the fact that this little "cheat" could be good for MP servers ?

Not quite off topic. The suggestion was made with the implication that the lack of ability to perform AAR is hardware related and therefore an automatic cheat was justified.

In reality it's practice relayed. There's this myth that AAR ability is dependant on having some really expensive controllers or some magic joystick curve. Assuming your controllers aren't defective all it takes is lots of practice. Weeks.... But just practice.

 

Your signature bar tells me you know exactly what that means. :joystick:

 

Looks like ED already answered this one anyways.

Edited September 8, 2016 by SharpeXB

[shagrat]

Agree. This wish list item would be a good option to have in certain cases.

I would be surprised if it is ever coded into the sim. I'm not sure what that entails.

 

We talking about code for every Jet? Hmmmm.

Well in theory we talk about switching the AAR script for AI/SFM planes on?

And handing control back to the pilot after setting fuel to 100% again... ;)

[shagrat]

;2895563']I don't agree with this' date=' how are you supposed to better yourself as a pilot if you use a cheat like this, its not a training tool it is simply just lazy. Yes, some joysticks are more accurate than others, so if u have a crap joystick add some curve then practice eventually you will get it. Practice makes perfect. Why take the flight out of flight sim. This might be blunt, no hard feelings to all that think its a good idea, just my 2 cents.[/quote']

As I said, to each his own... If you enjoy fighting boom operators, accelerating and maneuvering tankers that don't even warn you, fine with me.

 

Sometimes I just want to enjoy the 80-90 minutes I have for flying DCS...

 

As most grown ups tend to have a live and work, I would appreciate this cheat, far more than the "arcade mode"!

 

And we have an "Arcade mode" in DCS including ridiculous "Enemy here!-Markers", 360° all seeing radar etc.

 

If there is a place for that in DCS, this little optional convenience won't be killing us...

One can still brag how one never uses the option and air-to-air refuel by hand, like real men.

[VTJS17_Fire]

But a lot of players won't ever be able to do proper air-air refueling due to low quality joysticks.

I have to disagree with that. I have a 9 year old Saitek X-52, which is very worn on it's spring and axis. Nevertheless, I can air refuel in the A-10C, F-15 and M-2000C without problems. It's just practise, practise, practise. ;)

[FSKRipper]

Refueling is easy, Fly formation, use trim for small adjustments, let the boom operator do the work.

 

This is a Simulator, there likely wont be anymore "Cheats" Added, This includes: Auto refuel, Auto Landing, Auto Take Off etc.

 

Auto Startup is simply a Macro List of Commands, it's not actually flying the aircraft.

 

+1

 

Without practice even a Warthog Hotas won't help you in refueling.

 

For people who can't or won't practice there is already a cheat function available called "unlimited fuel"

[lmp]

I get the purpose of auto startup macros. Some people learn better by watching the automated sequence rather than reading the manual. Besides, there is little skill involved and it can get boring. I don't use them personally, but I get it why they're there. Automatic AAR on the other hand... come on, if it bores you or for some other reason you can't be bothered to learn it, why include it in your mission at all? It's not like the current maps force you to cover huge distances...

[shagrat]

I get the purpose of auto startup macros. Some people learn better by watching the automated sequence rather than reading the manual. Besides, there is little skill involved and it can get boring. I don't use them personally, but I get it why they're there. Automatic AAR on the other hand... come on, if it bores you or for some other reason you can't be bothered to learn it, why include it in your mission at all? It's not like the current maps force you to cover huge distances...

You misunderstand, the Auto Start-up macros or the supposed Auto refuel, saves people precious prime time for family and other things.

 

Others after having mastered things like an 8 minute startup sequence, simply use autostart to use the toilette or finish a sandwich while autostart does its job, or go over the mission details, map and load out planning, saving precious time that they can use for more interesting things.

It is an option for some people who don't have the time and/or nerve to practice, practice, practice AAR for weeks or months...

 

If we can have "arcade mode" and auto start why should an AAR refuel now be a sacrilege?

 

I would go with any argument against the arcade mode, as it is, well, let's say "out of place", but an OPTIONAL little cheat like auto start is pretty useful.

 

Nobody forces you to use it. ;)

 

Edit:

And about "why include AAR in a mission if you don't like it"... When, sometimes you play missions other people have designed, especially in multiplayer, they are still a lot of fun, but it happened often enough, that I finally had to divert to a base, after practising, practising, practising, practising, practising, practising and practising AAR while the rest of the flight waited and waited and waited...

Edited September 8, 2016 by shagrat

[iVVChewy9141VVi]

Instead of Auto Refueling maybe have a radius around the aircraft you use to refuel. Even though its not realistic at least it will make you have to fly to the aircraft to refuel and if your within say a 20Ft-30Ft bubble for lesser words that will activate refueling.

 

This would have to be activated in the menu though.

[Sierra99]

Having trouble with AAR is likely more just lack of practice than hardware related. If your joystick is good enough to hold your aim on a target, it's good enough for AAR.

If your joystick is that bad, then a replacement is in order. I realized my joystick was worn out when I couldn't hit balloons in RoF. But if you can hit a stationary target, it's not the stick, it's just lack of practice.

 

Ya know I was a Boom Operator for 22 years in both the KC-135 and KC-10. I can say with a certain degree of authority that having trouble with Air Refuefing is NOT just lack of practice for a very simple and Basic Reason...The AI Boom Operator NEVER gets any better.

 

I made thousands of contacts during my career, several hundred of them with A-10s. I watched and listened to hundreds of receiver Air Refuelings sitting directly behind the pilot as he worked to get into the contact position. In real life the receiver pilot AND the boom operator must work together to successfully complete the operation. The receiver pilot maneuvers his aircraft to the contact position and the boomer MOVES THE BOOM to make contact. In real life if a pilot can fly reasonably good formation, air refueling is Safe and effective. Fact.

 

This simply isn't the case in DCS. The AI boom Operator is unqualified and needs additional training. People won't hesitate to yell and scream if a weapon doesn't work exactly the way they think it should or if an instrument doesn't display exactly the way it does in real life...but as soon as someone says they can't refuel experts tell them "they just need to practice".

 

You're wrong. People don't need to practice. ED needs to get the AI boom operator some training or make it easier to refuel till they do.

 

This IS an expert opinion.

 

Sierra

 

"Warning - Flying two aircraft together in close vertical proximity is inherently dangerous."

[SharpeXB]

The receiver pilot maneuvers his aircraft to the contact position and the boomer MOVES THE BOOM to make contact.

I'm sure the AI boomer isn't like reality and for someone with your experience it's too noticeable to ignore. But in the game that's exactly what happens. You maneuver into position. And stay steady there. And the AI will connect to you. It works. I'm sure not exactly like a real human operating the boom but it just takes practice.

This is a sim that comes with a 671 page manual so if you've got the patience for that, practicing AAR shouldn't be too daunting.

 

If you enjoy fighting boom operators, accelerating and maneuvering tankers that don't even warn you, fine with me.

It's hard to get this part sometimes, but the tanker isn't accelerating and maneuvering without warning. It's you doing that. The tanker is steady.

 

For people who can't or won't practice there is already a cheat function available called "unlimited fuel"

This

Edited September 9, 2016 by SharpeXB

[dudeman17]

I personally feel like there is almost no excuse for not being able to mid air refuel (unless your on a mouse and keyboard) but if your flying most DCS modules you probably can afford a joystick. I personally recommend the Logitech extreme 3D pro it is the joystick I used once for FSX and it got me into DCS. It is an amazing and inexpensive piece of hardware. I used this joystick to learn AAR and I have even used it for some formation flying in aerobatics. Air to air refueling is not magic it is a skill that is learned just like driving a standard transmission. You get in and blow up tanker after tanker until you start to understand what it is you have to do then you get a few seconds of fuel until you learn reference points. Then you find yourself using every muscle in your body trying to get comfortable. You can mid air refuel and is it easy, no. But with practice you can do it. DCS was not designed to be easy.

[SharpeXB]

It took me about two weeks and at first every muscle in my body hurt from grabbing the stick with a death grip. The tanker wouldn't hold still and was bouncing all over the sky (or was that me?) Then just like learning to ride a bicycle you start predicting the inputs instead of reacting and you got it.

[jcbak]

I'm not in favor of the cheat.

[VTJS17_Fire]

It is an option for some people who don't have the time and/or nerve to practice, practice, practice AAR for weeks or months...

But this wasn't the point of the threads author. The point was to implement it, for players with cheap (less precise) hardware.

 

And as I said, that's an excuse for not practise it.