Tacview Anti-cheat delay poll

[Vyrtuoz]

I would like to know what do you think of the online anti-cheat delay which has been introduced in Tacview 1.5.3 exporter. It is useless, perfect, too long, too short?

 

What is the anti-cheat delay?

 

To prevent people from cheating while flying online, a delay of 10 minutes has been introduced so the last 10 minutes of an online flight cannot be played back in Tacview. That way, bad people will not be able to use Tacview to quickly replay a flight still in progress and sneak behind the enemy lines for free…

 

What do you think of it?

 

Now, I would like to know what you think about this feature in general? Do you find the default delay of 10 minutes appropriate? Do you think the delay could be shorter or longer?

 

Please, feel free to elaborate in this thread.

 

To answer some of your concerns

 

Is an anti-cheat feature necessary?

Yes. This is a fact: As soon as you are online, cheaters will always ruin the games of honest players. Just try hosting a public server with full export enabled and no data integrity check and you will quickly notice one person starting to do suspicious tricks with his/her aircraft. At least, the anti-cheat opton will prevent cheaters from using Tacview in such a manner…

 

Why is the Tacview anti-cheat system enabled by default?

If the anti-cheat system was disabled by default, it would be much easier for cheaters to find a workaround and disable this protection when it is enabled. Because Tacview assumes that the session should be protected by default, if a cheater was trying to circumvent the system, in the worst case, he/she would still be stuck with the default 10 minutes delay. Better to be safe than sorry...

 

Why 10 minutes by default, not more, or not less?

It seems that 10 minutes is a good average which should work well with most servers (for both slow and fast movers). Remember that, if you are the host, you can change this delay if you are not happy with it.

 

Can I disable this delay?

If you are the host, then you can! Just install Tacview on your server, and choose the delay of your liking in the dedicated option panel in DCS World. You may want to disable data recording so your server will never be slowed down by the Tacview exporter recording data (even if the impact is low in general).

 

Can we have a 5 minutes delay by default?

According to common sense and based on these survey results, 5 minutes is probably too small by default. Nevertheless, in Tacview 1.6 you will be able to lower the default delay to 5 minutes if you want to.

 

It is possible to disable this anti-cheat delay while playing back a track?

Because cheaters could use track replay to circumvent the anti-cheat delay, it is necessary to keep the replay protected. However, in a future version of the exporter, the anti-cheat delay will be automatically and appropriately shortened when playing back tracks. In the end, honest players should be happy with the incoming improvement in that matter.

 

Can I record and protect the data directly on my server?

• Install the Tacview exporter on the server side.
  
• Enable the option “Create one file for each network client”. This will create a distinct file for each player connected to your server.
  
• Share the root of the folder containing all the generated acmi files on a GoogleDrive or a Dropbox folder.
  

This can be used to:

• Increase clients’ frame rate (because they do not have to record data anymore). Very handy to reach the holy grail of 90 fps for the VR headsets.
  
• Archive all your squadron flights.
  
• With a minimum amount of work, I am pretty sure you can delay data sharing on DropBox.
  

 

Can't you just take my money and make an iPad/Android version?

Yes, I am on it. Just be patient, only two more weeks™ left ;)

Edited February 26, 2017 by Vyrtuoz
Added some answers

[SDsc0rch]

i fully support anti-cheating measures

 

but i also want to capture the "full mission" on tacview - so in order to get the whole mission, i have to leave ten minutes of dead time at the end of the mission so tacview captures everything including the landing ----- dead time is a good thing to prevent cheating, but TEN MINUTES is unnecessary - two minutes is probably enough

[104th_Maverick]

We looked at using this on the 104th server however the problem we found was that we cannot use this without allowing other programs to take advantage of exports being enabled for it.

 

Would it be possible in the future to allow for TacVIEW to be enabled using its own export without allowing other programs to use the same export (hope that makes sense)

 

We want to use this on our server but not at the cost of allowing other programs to be run alongside it.

Specifically Leavu3, if we turn on Exports for TacVIEW users can also use Leavu3, we do not want this!

 

If there could be a way in future to only allow export for TacVIEW (I know this is problematic) then we would use it on the 104th server.

 

This issue aside, thanks for all the hard work! TacVIEW keeps getting better and better, well worth every penny!

 

edit:

 

Also there should be options for longer than 10 minutes. Reason being on missions that involve strike aircraft with long time to target flights, having a delay of only 2 mins or 10 mins will still give away to the opposition that a strike package is inbound. Therefore pilots who are flying low to avoid radar and enemy fighters to keep the element of surprise will be exposed by users watching the TacVIEW feed. Having a delay of longer than 10 minutes will give them more of chance to get in and get out without being detected using TacVIEW.

Edited February 15, 2017 by [Maverick]

[Bearfoot]

I think that the last minutes of mission are crucial to learning what happened when you get blindsided! Makes no difference whether it is 10 or 5 or 2 minutes ... sometimes that missile that comes out of nowhere and takes out is the last second!

 

Losing the last bit of a mission when you get killed (at least on MP) makes TacView instantly 50% less useful as a learning tool :( :( :(

[DieHard]

TacView should not be allowed in real time on any MP servers.

 

Also, like in the Ka-50 in MP, don't fly the pre-planned canned flight path to the target area. The jet flyboys can get in a Ka-50 and learn the mission's flight plan, then pay you a visit in their jet.

[Aufpassen]

BS-feature: Block Tacview alltogether (don't trust anybody on the server) or allow it (you're among friends), that is all that is needed. This is overengineered for a game.

[aaron886]

BS-feature: Block Tacview alltogether (don't trust anybody on the server) or allow it (you're among friends), that is all that is needed. This is overengineered for a game.

Totally not how this sim works. I'm sure you've been in a public session! Short version is that people don't just want small private sessions, and the side effect of larger public sessions is random people joining the server who can't be trusted to let others enjoy their sim.

 

;3052252']If there could be a way in future to only allow export for TacVIEW (I know this is problematic) then we would use it on the 104th server.

 

[...]

 

Also there should be options for longer than 10 minutes. Reason being on missions that involve strike aircraft with long time to target flights, having a delay of only 2 mins or 10 mins will still give away to the opposition that a strike package is inbound.

 

Perfect, that's getting right to the heart of the issue! I think those two things are essential. The server should be able to force a longer delay.

[ricktoberfest]

i fully support anti-cheating measures

 

but i also want to capture the "full mission" on tacview - so in order to get the whole mission, i have to leave ten minutes of dead time at the end of the mission so tacview captures everything including the landing ----- dead time is a good thing to prevent cheating, but TEN MINUTES is unnecessary - two minutes is probably enough

 

 

 

Is this actually the way it works, or does it simply prevent PLAYBACK for 10 minutes. That would seem to make more sense

 

 

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[Falcon_S]

;3052252']...

 

Would it be possible in the future to allow for TacVIEW to be enabled using its own export without allowing other programs to use the same export (hope that makes sense)

...

Specifically Leavu3, if we turn on Exports for TacVIEW users can also use Leavu3, we do not want this!

 

Yes, Tacview need its own export and there can help only ED with dedicated and hard-coded Tacview Export script. For users/server with on/off option only.

 

Tacview is "must have" tool for DCS. Why not as DCSW Modul and all that partnership as other 3rd party mudules. That`s my recommendation for Virtuoz and ED. Just make dedicated export script and take our money. :)

 

All will be happy. (except LEAVU fan club ;) )

 

:joystick:

[Sweep]

IMO, the playback delay should be disabled by default with the option to enable it on servers that choose so. I think it is currently the opposite of that...?

 

Also, can we stop flying DCS: Paranoia? That module is OP and gamebreaking. :)

[TheBamse]

Totally in agreement with Sweep

[Bushmanni]

;3052252']Would it be possible in the future to allow for TacVIEW to be enabled using its own export without allowing other programs to use the same export (hope that makes sense)erver.

 

Also there should be options for longer than 10 minutes.

 

+1

[Frostie]

I'm not sure tacview delayed is so beneficial for open servers. Being able to see where every ground unit is, what units have been deployed by players or where choppers, strike aircraft are operating doesn't require real time info alone to understand more than you should know.

 

Stopping the ability to see the tacview before the end of the session would be a preferred direction

Edited February 15, 2017 by Frostie

[Bearfoot]

I think that anti-cheating measures should not compromise functionality. It is a shame to cripple such a great tool to accommodate the possibility of sleaze-ball parasites. Game security should be handled at a different level or different ways.

[BSS_Sniper]

I think that anti-cheating measures should not compromise functionality. It is a shame to cripple such a great tool to accommodate the possibility of sleaze-ball parasites. Game security should be handled at a different level or different ways.

 

It is, turn it off so it can't be used. Simple.

[*Rage*]

I think the Tacview should be hard coded into DCS. Servers are forced to disallow exports due to cheats and hacks like LEAVU which unfortunately impact home cockpit users as well as useful tools like Tacview.

 

I would say 10 mins delay is a minimum.

[zaelu]

I'm not sure tacview delayed is so beneficial for open servers. Being able to see where every ground unit is, what units have been deployed by players or where choppers, strike aircraft are operating doesn't require real time info alone to understand more than you should know.

 

Stopping the ability to see the tacview before the end of the session would be a preferred direction

 

This would be better than delay.

 

Server should encrypt the acmi and give the key later at/after client disconnect.

 

The keys can be another file that user needs to load when opening an acmi file. Maybe even store keys for later access in case of sudden connection loss.

 

 

Maybe the server can be set up then to give the keys with delay. Or store them and then the admin can publish them 24 hours later or something convenient.

 

ps

 

of course this measures should be optional... people that play private squad matches should be able to disable encryption if they wish.

Edited February 16, 2017 by zaelu

[Bearfoot]

It is, turn it off so it can't be used. Simple.

 

I don't understand what you mean by this (assuming you meant to respond to my comment).

 

To clarify: I like TacView. I want TacView. I want the whole TacView, up to and including the last few seconds if I get killed/destroyed in multiplayer online. My understanding is that I will lose the last ten minutes if die in MP. I feel this way of handling cheaters is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, compromising the effectiveness of a fantastic tool in an effort to incorporate game security / paranoia which should be handled at different levels.

 

Given that, can you explain how "turn it off so it can't be used" is applicable? I'm not being antagonistic. I just cannot figure out what you mean in relation to what I said ...

[Beamscanner]

Perhaps a delayed export (not a delayed tacview) would solve your problems..

 

ie the server may allow sensor exports, but with a set delay (5, 10, 15 minutes or whatever they want). And If someone leaves the game, all of the real time export data immediately gets opened up and released to that client.

 

That way programs like leavu are rendered useless, while programs like tacview can still be utilized.

 

Though this would require help from ED I imagine.

[microvax]

Imho the default delay should be 0, the available options are good though imho.

 

For the user side which now and then hosts a Mission for a few friends the 10min is just something to reset to 0, while there is a lot less servers which would be able to set it to 10 min or more. :)

 

 

For the problem of cheating using exports. Thats nothing that Tacview can solve I fear.

 

The most sensible way to solve the export problem would probably be to just implement a serverside key generator, the client can manage them for each server, basically whitelisting clients without having to whitelist $dude for the 5th time because he nuked his config.

 

In return it gets logged server side for each client which requests export auth, which exports were used client side. If there is $fishy things happening from the client side, admin can check what used the export.

 

Simple[r] to implement [than custom premium API], no need for jesus complicated delayed data delivery on the server side. Every export using solution profits, Server basically just denies or authorizes the client to export stuff. And server admin can allow or disallow per player and in case of $fishy things can check what $client is using the exports for.

 

Cockpit owners happy since they can be individually allowed, Server happy since its very simple task for it, Server admins happy since they dont have to believe $excuse, and solutions like the Tacview delay still work flawlessly since its completely transparent.

 

I mean atm the traffic isnt even encrypted, so if someone really wants to, he can extract all the data he wants relatively easy anyways, but I guess the combination of "is capable of doing so" and "finds it acceptable to do so" is rare enough.

 

 

But given the state of DCS multiplayer, from a technical standpoint, I am kinda pessimistic hoping for ED to do something about that, before the performance issues are fixed, although it would be way easier.

[apocom]

Can the delay at least be changed that when I watch the replay I have my whole session recorded?

 

The problem seems to be that even if I watch the replay, the server settings are enforced. It seems to be a bit unnecessary.

[amazingme]

There's nothing worse in a gaming community than the cheaters/exploiters/hackers, so I voted for the longest delay possible. in fact, we should only be able to download the game data AFTER the session is over.. it's the only way we can prevent such bad habits.

[chn6]

I recommend delay settings can be manually input parameters, such as from 0 seconds -600 seconds, if it is difficult to achieve, at least you can choose: 0 seconds, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 120 seconds, 300 seconds, 600 seconds.

 

Because in some of the game activities, we need to show the audience real-time flight data, so a shorter delay is a very important function.

 

In addition, my dear TACVIEW author, I strongly recommend considering the production of Android and Apple mobile version of APP, which will be very helpful for the development of air combat simulation!

[Sweep]

There's nothing worse in a gaming community than the cheaters/exploiters/hackers, so I voted for the longest delay possible. in fact, we should only be able to download the game data AFTER the session is over.. it's the only way we can prevent such bad habits.

 

The session being the mission being hosted or the client's session?

[amazingme]

They're the same thing.. the export data should be available online (ftp or whatever) but after the server restarts.

 

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