As close to a real Spit as it gets

[Reflected]

Thank you ED for this wonderful simulation of the childhood fantasy of many of us, the Spitfire. This weekend I had the chance to sit in a real one. I was amazed how familiar the cockpit looked. everything was where it should be, I could find everything even if I was blindfolded. I realized what an amazing job you guys did on this one. Sure ,there are some minor things to iron out, but I'm sure it's as close to flying a real Spit as it will ever get for most of us, and I'm very grateful for it! :thumbup:

 

 

 

[Magic Zach]

Lucky you!

[Reflected]

Oh, and one more thing: I watched the Spits land carefully, and man, they all bounced, from one wheel to the other, up in the air, one even had to go around. After touching the ground, the pilots were really dancing on the rudder pedals. So if you think we have it too hard in DCS, think again. It really is like this: "a lady in the air, a bitch on the ground", as they said in the trailer of the upcoming documentary. ;)

[MAD-MM]

Nice Pics....last Time i was in Duxfurd you could Fly in double Seater Spit, would be nice Experience, but sadly the Prices was also a boomer...

[Holbeach]

I'm glad I saw that second pic, as it shows the sight tint to be pretty much the same as mine is in game. Just right.

 

 

..

[CGReload]

Is the green tint on the windscreen pretty accurate? To me it feels to cloudy and vibrant in color and sometimes ruins my gun runs.

[Reflected]

To be honest, the tint was the last thing I paid attention to - I didn't check it at all, sorry. I was too overwhelmed with everything else.

[Hornetjock]

I got to look over the MKVIII at Temora in Australia and it was an overwhelming experience, although I have the photos. You just can't take it all in and I still have some "wish I had...". I agree wholeheartedly on the job ED has done. She is a joy once you tame her.

[toby23]

Is the green tint on the windscreen pretty accurate? To me it feels to cloudy and vibrant in color and sometimes ruins my gun runs.

 

I took this picture at Duxford in the same Spitfire for tint colour reference.

[DD_Fenrir]

Sorry to burst some bubbles here, but that particular Spitfire is not a real one; at it's heart it used to be a glass fibre replica, however it's owner has done a fantastic job in replacing much of the original glass fibre components with authentic parts to make it more convincing.

 

However, this does mean that there is a question over how prototypical any detail of this machine is; ergo using the windscreen as a point of reference could be an error - as it is I suspect that looks a lot like perspex crazing on the windscreen, which in the real deal would have been armoured glass.

 

 

Correction: I was led to believe this once was a glass fibre replica; apparently I was mis-informed! It is a reproduction, hand-built to be as close to real as practicable; please see link below:

 

https://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2016/05/simply-spitfire-mk805-reproduction-terry-arlow/

 

 

I still say it's a fantastic job but my point still stands regards using it as a prototypical point of reference.

Edited July 17, 2018 by DD_Fenrir

[toby23]

Correction: I was led to believe this once was a glass fibre replica; apparently I was mis-informed! It is a reproduction, hand-built to be as close to real as practicable; please see link below:

 

If you want to see the real deal, watch Grim Reaper's video

, he was able to get access to the real Spitfire's at Duxford.

 

Regarding the colour of the armoured glass, there's a great discussion at ATAG here with links to various photos, which are all different.

 

As Flying Legends have their own Spitfire's and Eagle Dynamics had access to them, I have no reason to doubt the colour in DCS.

I think that the problem comes from how 2.5 shows colour and textures in the new engine. The lighting seems to have a few issues currently.

Edited July 17, 2018 by toby23

[Vino]

Reflected; you lucky bastard! :D Thanks for sharing the pictures!

[Art-J]

As Flying Legends have their own Spitfire's and Eagle Dynamics had access to them, I have no reason to doubt the colour in DCS.

I think that the problem comes from how 2.5 shows colour and textures in the new engine. The lighting seems to have a few issues currently.

 

If this mythical access was utilized fully, we wouldn't have still incorrect operation of mixture lever more than a year after module's release ;).

 

But I digress...

 

The tint problem is caused simply by green layer getting duplicated on both sides of windscreen glass in the latest game patch, as can be seen by layout of baked relfections. Whether the gfx artist did that by mistake, or forgot to adjust values for each single layer afterwards, the result is still the same - as if we were seeing through two pairs of raybans :D.

[toby23]

Here's hoping for a texture fix asap, those baked reflections in the windscreen glass are very distracting..

 

EDIT 21/07 - I fixed the baked reflections too by making them more subtle.

Edited July 21, 2018 by toby23

[Hornetjock]

Art-J Great comment re the mixture lever. I have always been puzzled by its "On-off" nature. She would be laying a smoke trail at full rich all the time.

[toby23]

@Art-J Unless I misunderstood your point about the mixture lever, the Spitfire Mk IX mixture is automatic.

[71st_AH Rob]

The Mk IX we have has an automatic mixture control, I think it is the idle cut off that has people confused.

[Art-J]

@Art-J Unless I misunderstood your point about the mixture lever, the Spitfire Mk IX mixture is automatic.

 

I was thinking about the fact that we can't follow the real startup procedure for Merlin 66 with Bendix-Stromberg carb by moving the mixture lever to auto before cranking the engine. That's how it was done as per pilot's notes, we can also see that on videos of restored birds with the same quadrant type being started and flown.

 

Try doing that in DCS Spit and a) the engine will not catch; b) the fuel line to carb will loose pressure anyway. Instead we have to mimic the startup procedure of P-51D by moving the lever only after cranked engine catches.

 

Might be a small thing, but a bit annoying for a "study sim" which pretends to simulate things as they work by the book.

[71st_AH Rob]

The start up procedure can be followed exactly as described in the Spitfire pilot notes.

 

There is no mixture lever in the Spitfire Mk IX equipped with Bendix-Stromberg carburetors. There is an idle cut off lever on the throttle quadrant. It has to be in the aft position when the fuel pump is on or the wobble pump is engaged. Once the engine is running it can be moved forward.

 

See para 34(iv) pg18 and para 36 of 19 of pilot's notes.

[WildBillKelsoe]

admire your skins!

[Art-J]

There is no mixture lever in the Spitfire Mk IX equipped with Bendix-Stromberg carburetors. There is an idle cut off lever on the throttle quadrant.

 

Semantics, but I agree my wording was confusing indeed. Fair point, duly noted. However...

 

The start up procedure can be followed exactly as described in the Spitfire pilot notes. [...] See para 34(iv) pg18 and para 36 of 19 of pilot's notes.

 

No it cannot, at least not according to the very paragraphs you pointed, which have been read by guys reporting that discrepancy since module's release many times I'm sure, thank you very much. You are free to read them again yourself, though - more carefully this time before implying others didn't, If I may suggest. Then try to apply the procedure step by step in DCS.

 

The instructions say after pressurizing the system with cutoff lever aft, either by temporary usage of booster pump or wobble pump, one is supposed to move the cutoff lever forward, then prime, then crank until the engine catches, then prime some more if needed. Following this procedure in DCS leads to nowhere, that's the point I'm trying to make. The engine gets overprimed as if the booster pump was working (but it's not!), at the same time the fuel system looses pressure very quickly for some reason.

 

One can modify the procedure by priming first, moving cutoff lever second and cranking & priming again vigorously third. If done fast enough, the engine might start actually, but that's as "realistic" as DCS-suggested-method of moving the cutoff lever as the last step of the whole procedure. Sure it will work, and with startup taking only a fraction of mission's time one could say "why bother, there are more important things than need to be simulated accurately". That might be the case, but with so much detail put elsewhere in this module, it's puzzling why part of the recommended startup procedure seems to be result of "poetic license" of someone's in ED.

[Ercoupe]

Art, I start the Spitfire with the mixture lever forward all the time. Sometimes I need to pump the wobble pump a few times to get it to catch. But I think that's what happens with the real one, too. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying and I should have stayed out of the conversation. Feel free to tell me to mind my own buisiness.

[Reflected]

 

The instructions say after pressurizing the system with cutoff lever aft, either by temporary usage of booster pump or wobble pump, one is supposed to move the cutoff lever forward, then prime, then crank until the engine catches, then prime some more if needed. Following this procedure in DCS leads to nowhere, that's the point I'm trying to make. The engine gets overprimed as if the booster pump was working (but it's not!), at the same time the fuel system looses pressure very quickly for some reason.

 

Yes, you're right. I noticed the same discrepancy.

[Captain Orso]

*gahhh* the Brits make me so crazy :cry:

 

So the wobble pump and the fuel pressuring cock (front dash board, lower starboard side, below the fuel tank gauge - is this really just a cock [open/close valve]???) are for pressurizing the fuel system to prevent the fuel from boiling at high temperatures and altitudes.

 

The fuel pump itself (port side, beneath the elevator trim wheel) is just a normal fuel pump?

[Reflected]

*gahhh* the Brits make me so crazy :cry:

 

So the wobble pump and the fuel pressuring cock (front dash board, lower starboard side, below the fuel tank gauge - is this really just a cock [open/close valve]???) are for pressurizing the fuel system to prevent the fuel from boiling at high temperatures and altitudes.

 

The fuel pump itself (port side, beneath the elevator trim wheel) is just a normal fuel pump?

 

Yes.