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DCS: F-16CM Block 50 by EDSA Discussion Thread


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For those interested, here is what the right console of an circa 2007 F-16CM looks like.

 

 

 

Thanks

Thanks Wags for the picture. Very interesting to see a panel so different from what I have always known in the F-16.

 

Thank you too Mvsgas for sharing and helping us with true information on this module I am so keenly looking forward to.

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Sir i'm sorry, i did not mean to offend you.

 

Thank you but there is no need to apologies, it take a lot to offend me and I no longer work on F-16 and I am far from an expert. I am just a fat guy with internet connection now. I wasn't even a good F-16 crew chief. There many other here far more knowledgeable than me. ShadowXP, =Panther=, Calli, Chandawg, Bunyap, just to mention a few.

 

Thank you too Mvsgas for sharing and helping us with true information on this module I am so keenly looking forward to.

Thank you, just hoping to be helpful. We need to get C.W. Lemoine and Deuce here since they actually flew the thing are are far more qualified than me.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Thank you but there is no need to apologies, it take a lot to offend me and I no longer work on F-16 and I am far from an expert. I am just a fat guy with internet connection now. I wasn't even a good F-16 crew chief. There many other here far more knowledgeable than me. ShadowXP, =Panther=, Calli, Chandawg, Bunyap, just to mention a few.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, just hoping to be helpful. We need to get C.W. Lemoine and Deuce here since they actually flew the thing are are far more qualified than me.

 

Thanks Mvsgas for the video. Great story.

Always an interesting time to listen to real pilots talk about these aircrafts we fly on a desktop computer.

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I understand. Does secrecy include information about cockpit alignment and schematics? You may hit me on PN for the answer to keep this thread for the module and not for such side questions.

 

kind regards, mkev

 

In some cases it does, yes, but the systems and functionality behind the instrumentation is where the stonewalling really starts, as well as some of the stores.

 

Either way, it'll be interesting to see just how, what and which systems we'll get on the DCS Viper. Much of my knowledge about the jet is specific to the MLU'ed Block 10 and 15's with the F100PW220E-engine we flew here in Norway, and while the OCU and MLU M1-jets I worked on are similar to the Block 50, there's a ton of differences.

Regards

Fjordmonkey

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Much of my knowledge about the jet is specific to the MLU'ed Block 10 and 15's with the F100PW220E-engine we flew here in Norway, and while the OCU and MLU M1-jets I worked on are similar to the Block 50, there's a ton of differences.

 

That is still a lot of knowledge. You know how the basics work. You know what PDU is, an ISA, EPU etc. The idea, I think, is we all work together is to provide ED with filtered information so they can narrow the specifics.

 

So when someone ask about a system, you can see it an clarify: "No that is from an A model, or no this is after "X" ECP/update.


Edited by mvsgas
spelling

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Something I want to keep bringing up because I hope it stays fresh in peoples mind. If and when the F-16 module is release. If ED stay with the same version they announce (we all know or should know that can change) it will be a F-16C block 50, from USAF, After CCIP upgrade circa 2007.

 

Counter measure panels have change, Avionics power panels have change. Engine Starting Systems Controller have change, Flight control Computers have change, RWR, Engine, JHMCS; the list goes on. I am only talking about USAF F-16C block 50, not even thinking about other countries.

 

So before making a post saying this or that is wrong, please lets all make sure what versions we are looking at. Before posting that "chart" about turn performance, what flight control software and computer is that chart based on? On the USAF block 50 alone there are several different flight control computer and software.

 

Before posting a video about the engine, do you know there are 6 different engines for the F-16? Not just block 50 but F-16 in general.

F100-PW-200 (block 1 to 25), F100-PW-220 (block 1 to 25, 32 and 42), F100-PW-229 (block 42 and 52, 52+), F110-GW-100 (30, 40) F110-GE-129 (50, 50+), F110-GE-132 (60). They all have subversion also, as an example last time I check, the F110 has the 100, 100B, 100C and 100D. How many F110-GE-129 subversion are there? I don't know, does anyone know?

 

Avionics power have several versions; Some with MMC, Some with MMC and EGI

 

There are several OFP and they all bring different capabilities. M3.4+, M4.2+, M4.3+, M5.1+

So unless you have specific dates for when those OFP became operational ( and their capabilities) maybe hold off on that:" it should carry this weapons or this pod". A youtube video can't tell you what software that specific F-16 is using.

 

Pods have different software, and example sniper S1.8 or S3.5. Seeing a video of the Sniper pods does not tell you it capabilities unless you know the specific software used on the video. Same goes to all other pods (LITENING, HTS, etc.)

 

So, more than likely (if ED stays on this specific version) this module wont match what most of us think we know of the F-16.


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Something I want to keep bringing up because I hope it stays fresh in peoples mind. If and when the F-16 module is release. If ED stay with the same version they announce (we all know or should know that can change) it will be a F-16C block 50, from USAF, After CCIP upgrade circa 2007.

 

Counter measure panels have change, Avionics power panels have change. Engine Starting Systems Controller have change, Flight control Computers have change, RWR, Engine, JHMCS; the list goes on. I am only talking about USAF F-16C block 50, not even thinking about other countries.

 

So before making a post saying this or that is wrong, please lets all make sure what versions we are looking at. Before posting that "chart" about turn performance, what flight control software and computer is that chart based on? On the USAF block 50 alone there are several different flight control computer and software.

 

Before posting a video about the engine, do you know there are 6 different engines for the F-16? Not just block 50 but F-16 in general.

F100-PW-200 (block 1 to 25), F100-PW-220 (block 1 to 25, 32 and 42), F100-PW-229 (block 42 and 52, 52+), F110-GW-100 (30, 40) F110-GE-129 (50, 50+), F110-GE-132 (60). They all have subversion also, as an example last time I check, the F110 has the 100, 100B, 100C and 100D. How many F110-GE-129 subversion are there? I don't know, does anyone know?

 

Avionics power have several versions; Some with MMC, Some with MMC and EGI

 

There are several OFP and they all bring different capabilities. M3.4+, M4.2+, M4.3+, M5.1+

So unless you have specific dates for when those OFP became operational ( and their capabilities) maybe hold off on that:" it should carry this weapons or this pod". A youtube video can't tell you what software that specific F-16 is using.

 

Pods have different software, and example sniper S1.8 or S3.5. Seeing a video of the Sniper pods does not tell you it capabilities unless you know the specific software used on the video. Same goes to all other pods (LITENING, HTS, etc.)

 

So, more than likely (if ED stays on this specific version) this module wont match what most of us think we know of the F-16.

Whaoo. That is very interesting.

Thanks for the heads up info.

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Something I want to keep bringing up because I hope it stays fresh in peoples mind. If and when the F-16 module is release. If ED stay with the same version they announce (we all know or should know that can change) it will be a F-16C block 50, from USAF, After CCIP upgrade circa 2007.

 

<<truncated>>

 

So, more than likely (if ED stays on this specific version) this module wont match what most of us think we know of the F-16.

 

mvsgas,

Thank you for this, i think its important too. Im def not posting about how anything should or shouldn't be, but you are SOO right. The F-16 has been one of my favs for a LONG time and in the years i have tried to take notes of what functions, weapons, etc go with which plane and there are so many factors it was impossible for me to capture. I know ED will do their best to give is a good representation of the F-16 they are working on, balancing the real details of their model, with the details of making a consumer simulation (i will never say game).

 

I think a summary of your post should be put into the OP of this thread, cause after a couple days no one will see this post unless it's one of the rare folks who will actually read 30 pages of thread history.

 

That aside, thank you again for keeping us all on track and as well informed as you have. i have learned a lot from your posts.

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I think a summary of your post should be put into the OP of this thread, cause after a couple days no one will see this post unless it's one of the rare folks who will actually read 30 pages of thread history.

 

Yes, absolutely.

This should be in the open post to serve as a guide.

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Something I want to keep bringing up because I hope it stays fresh in peoples mind. If and when the F-16 module is release. If ED stay with the same version they announce (we all know or should know that can change) it will be a F-16C block 50, from USAF, After CCIP upgrade circa 2007.

 

Counter measure panels have change, Avionics power panels have change. Engine Starting Systems Controller have change, Flight control Computers have change, RWR, Engine, JHMCS; the list goes on. I am only talking about USAF F-16C block 50, not even thinking about other countries.

 

So before making a post saying this or that is wrong, please lets all make sure what versions we are looking at. Before posting that "chart" about turn performance, what flight control software and computer is that chart based on? On the USAF block 50 alone there are several different flight control computer and software.

 

Before posting a video about the engine, do you know there are 6 different engines for the F-16? Not just block 50 but F-16 in general.

F100-PW-200 (block 1 to 25), F100-PW-220 (block 1 to 25, 32 and 42), F100-PW-229 (block 42 and 52, 52+), F110-GW-100 (30, 40) F110-GE-129 (50, 50+), F110-GE-132 (60). They all have subversion also, as an example last time I check, the F110 has the 100, 100B, 100C and 100D. How many F110-GE-129 subversion are there? I don't know, does anyone know?

 

Avionics power have several versions; Some with MMC, Some with MMC and EGI

 

There are several OFP and they all bring different capabilities. M3.4+, M4.2+, M4.3+, M5.1+

So unless you have specific dates for when those OFP became operational ( and their capabilities) maybe hold off on that:" it should carry this weapons or this pod". A youtube video can't tell you what software that specific F-16 is using.

 

Pods have different software, and example sniper S1.8 or S3.5. Seeing a video of the Sniper pods does not tell you it capabilities unless you know the specific software used on the video. Same goes to all other pods (LITENING, HTS, etc.)

 

So, more than likely (if ED stays on this specific version) this module wont match what most of us think we know of the F-16.

 

This! So very much this.

 

People forget this so often that it's not even fun, and we see it a lot on these boards. We saw the same thing when the Hornet was announced, and people went nuts about different weapons, loadouts, systems etc.

 

To give an example on how different things are: A friend of mine served in the RNorAF 6 years before me. He worked on F16's, same as me. Both of us have worked on F16 block 10 and 15's, and we've worked on the same tailnumbers as well.

 

But in those 6 years, the same jet went from what we call OCU (this is the Block 15 upgrade that was done to our Block 5 and block 10-jets) to MLU M1. Sure, it's the same tailnumber, it's still an F16, but there's a VERY long list of differences, not the least the engine. Which went from F100PW220 to F100PW220e. That E means that it has a digital electric engine control (DEEC), which ALSO mean that the engine is pretty different and FAR less prone to hiccup when you introduce large changes in throttle at high AOA. And while there's little on the outside to tell that the bird has been MLU apart from a GPS-antennae on the spine, the birdslicer IFF-strakes in front of the canopy and that the landing/taxi-lights has been moved from the main landing gear to the nose landing gear, there's a LOT on the inside that's changed. For instance, but not limited to:

 

- upgraded flightcontrol

- upgraded, digital cockpit, with two MFDs, new UFC, new instrumentation, changes to switches etc.

- about a kilometer and a half of wiring has been changed.

- preparation for new pylons on the chin of the air intake (came with the MLU M4-tape)

- incorporation of new weapons

- new radar

- wiring and prep for use of jamming-pod on the centerline

 

This is only the stuff I can remember that's changed. There's a LOT of stuff that changed when the jets went from OCU to MLU, and we as groundcrew basically had to relearn and remember two sets of procedures, depending on the type of jet we were on. And this was basically MLU M1, which brought the jets from Block 15 OCU to Block 20's which again is roughly the same as your average block 50/52 albeit with some differences even there.

 

It's the same story for all aircraft. They may look the same, but looks are deceiving.

Regards

Fjordmonkey

Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

 

I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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I've seen my small countries F-16 fleet and there are no 2 planes the same, they all change even in the details of equipment.

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DracoLlasa, Eaglewings, and SkateZilla,

Thanks guys, hope I can be help full. There are so many thing I do not know about the F-16. Radar, weapons, and other systems capabilities etc. Flying characteristics is a whole area I know little about. I am far from an expert.

 

 

ShadowXP, and Pilotasso: Both of you have F-16 experience and to me is fun to hear from others experience. Hope more join the conversation.

 

 

I was wondering, for people creating the models: Is it easier to create the model a certain way or modifying it later?

 

I ask because I figure we all can talk about weathering. For the people planing to buy this module: Do you guys prefer a brand new pit or a weather pit? Not thinking about what is realistic or not. Not arguing if someone has a different opinion. Simply post your preference and why.

 

I would prefer a weather pit, but would not mind I pristine one. To me a weather pit would be more familiar. More fun visually. How about external skins?

 

I ask because it seems there are many different opinions on this.


Edited by mvsgas
spelling

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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I personal would prefer the ability to choose between either the brand new and a weathered cockpit

 

Also I would not mind a weathered pit on a level that does not distort the visibility of instruments labels as in the case of the F-14 Tomcat.

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I personal would prefer the ability to choose between either the brand new and a weathered cockpit

 

IMHO every module should come with two or three cockpits.

 

  1. New like factory, maybe few months in the field or max 1 year.
  2. A operational new well maintained one, weathered slightly like a 5-10 year old one would be like.
  3. A optional like museum or full long service time, like 60's aircraft being operated in 2019.

 

That way a mission can be about good immersion of the era and the aircraft so one can train in the first fresh models instead first grab a rag to clean the windshield so they can read something.

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The https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3887463&postcount=517 post really was insightful.

 

One thing that I have always little been wondering is the Su-27 aircrafts how each of them is different by the variant and by some kind slight upgrade.

 

And I always thought that while some "teen-fighters" has multiple blocks/lots etc, that they are then all the same by the standardized version, regardless that there might be like ten different Blocks.

 

But that how a F-16 is such that you likely don't find a identical in the same base etc, that is a something very surprising to me.

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What I hope doesn't happen is that everything gets bogged down due to complaints that a screw head is not to precise MILSPEC specification or the wires on a particular loom are not the in the correct colors. I've been watching otherwise great games get bogged down in those types of debates for three decades now...

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What I hope doesn't happen is that everything gets bogged down due to complaints that a screw head is not to precise MILSPEC specification or the wires on a particular loom are not the in the correct colors. I've been watching otherwise great games get bogged down in those types of debates for three decades now...

 

You mean like this?? :)

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3889147#post3889147

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The Fighter Pilot Podcast #45: F-16 Fighting Falcon

On this episode, retired US Air Force Reserve Colonel Mike “T-DAY” Torrealday, who amassed over 4,000 flight hours in nearly every block and variant of the Viper over a 29-year career, joins us to discuss this amazing fighter as a continuation of our ‘aircraft series.’ T-DAY describes the many variants, flight envelope, ordnance inventory, and so much more.

 

https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/045-f-16-fighting-falcon/

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I hate this things. They always ask stuff of the pilots beyond their scope ( things they don't need to know) and instead of answer truthfully (saying: "I'm not sure" or "I don't know") they always start making stuff up. The moment they ask about the blocks and he mention block zero, I lost interest in the conversation.

We should move the conversation here:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=189542


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Just noticed the title was changed from F-16CJ to F-16CM. Did ED change their plans or was CJ just the wrong designation?

 

Given the similaritys in the engines, does the Viper like the Cat with Zone 5 AB also need around 900lbs/min fuel?

 

I wish the FF was that low in the cat. Those F110-GEs literally burn ~1350-1400lb per minute each on the deck, approx. eight times of what they burn without AB. But I guess that might be due to increased thrust thanks to ram effect at high speeds. Can't dirty the plane up (auto retraction of speed brakes at MIL or more) and it wont stay in the carrier deck wires plus chocks aren't working yet... pinkiepieexcited.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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Just noticed the title was changed from F-16CJ to F-16CM. Did ED change their plans or was CJ just the wrong designation?

 

Remember, all has subject to changes. Surely has change by the available info.

More news to the front

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Just noticed the title was changed from F-16CJ to F-16CM. Did ED change their plans or was CJ just the wrong designation?

 

If I remember correctly the CM designation is used if the plane has had the CCIP upgrade. Since it was previously announced that the version we’re getting would include the CCIP upgrade the change of the thread title from CJ to CM is really just using the more accurate name for that version of the aircraft.

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