Any concern over Harrier development?

[Harlikwin]

I'll be well pissed, if all the whiners here, cause a VEAO type meltdown, because their switch doesn't work and the Harrier is consigned to history, alongside the Hawk and nobody will be able to use it, more importantly me and my most used aircraft.

..

 

It won't be "whiners" that cause that if it happens.

[Mecrutio]

I have monitored this topic on and off, keeping my mouth shut as I'm not a big fan of shaming. Today I have finished pg. 20 of this and I feel I need to say something from my point of view.

 

1:) Communication is not up to the standards of other Dev teams.

 

The statement says it all. Stop comparing. I get so busy in my occupation that lower priority items are pushed aside. I can accept this as the Topic "Change Log" is updated.

 

2:) "x" does not work. When will it work?

 

Remember, RAZBAM is a small team. I'm sure they have a small budget too. Overtime will kill any budget. To me, delays in fixing/incorporating features are signs of this. "Patience Grasshopper"

 

3:) "Does the needs of the few, or the one, outweigh the needs of the many?" Spock

 

Take a min. to review the 20+ pages of this topic, paying close attention to the ppl posting. Now figure out how may ppl have purchased the AV-8B. The gravity of this topic to RAZBAM could be guessed. Makes me think that the mere existence of this topic in the AV-8B forum is more of a clever psychological tool than an ear.

 

I started DCS with the Su-25T. After being addicted for some years I picked up other modules but never really spent time on them. I was always in the Toad... learning. Now that RAZBAM's harrier hit the scene... I have finally traded the Ruskie flight suit for a Yankee one. Haven't looked back. Speed, Payload, Payload capacity, VSTOL, TPOD, DMT, fricking Night Attack... Yeah ok... it's time for another 8hr sortie. Hopefully I'll see you out there... and not here.

[Cytt0rak]

I have monitored this topic on and off, keeping my mouth shut as I'm not a big fan of shaming. Today I have finished pg. 20 of this and I feel I need to say something from my point of view.

 

1:) Communication is not up to the standards of other Dev teams.

 

The statement says it all. Stop comparing. I get so busy in my occupation that lower priority items are pushed aside. I can accept this as the Topic "Change Log" is updated.

 

2:) "x" does not work. When will it work?

 

Remember, RAZBAM is a small team. I'm sure they have a small budget too. Overtime will kill any budget. To me, delays in fixing/incorporating features are signs of this. "Patience Grasshopper"

 

3:) "Does the needs of the few, or the one, outweigh the needs of the many?" Spock

 

Take a min. to review the 20+ pages of this topic, paying close attention to the ppl posting. Now figure out how may ppl have purchased the AV-8B. The gravity of this topic to RAZBAM could be guessed. Makes me think that the mere existence of this topic in the AV-8B forum is more of a clever psychological tool than an ear.

 

I started DCS with the Su-25T. After being addicted for some years I picked up other modules but never really spent time on them. I was always in the Toad... learning. Now that RAZBAM's harrier hit the scene... I have finally traded the Ruskie flight suit for a Yankee one. Haven't looked back. Speed, Payload, Payload capacity, VSTOL, TPOD, DMT, fricking Night Attack... Yeah ok... it's time for another 8hr sortie. Hopefully I'll see you out there... and not here.

 

Works for you? Good I'm happy for you but I don't get happy when I sit in this, I'm not happy when bug I reported one and half years ago that didn't got fixed yet and it was pushed to resolved bugs section even though its not fixed yet. I'm not happy when I PM RAZ's community manager about this bug and he doesn't respond. There are other fellow AV-8B owners here done 100x of bug reporting I did and guess what %90 of them didn't get adressed or acknowledged.

[Eagle7907]

Any concern over Harrier development?

 

I'll be well pissed, if all the whiners here, cause a VEAO type meltdown, because their switch doesn't work and the Harrier is consigned to history, alongside the Hawk and nobody will be able to use it, more importantly me and my most used aircraft.

..

 

 

Haha. Like that would be my personal fault that I decide not to buy snake oil.

 

I’d go ahead and get pissed now, because your personal feelings don’t make my wallet happy, nor help me feel like I made a smart decision from purchasing said developer.

 

If RAZBAM decides to get back in the groove of communicating and at least acknowledging our bug reports and acting on them, then I will feel differently. But so far it’s been minimal effort for months now. I really question how many ARE working on the Harrier or Mirage now? Also I rather purchase an EA product that at least communicates the actual progress of the product, acknowledges our reports, then never know if I get something finished.

 

BTW, if company is as said, “small”, then its their own fault they decided to develop multiple projects anyways and strain their own logistics. We have NOTHING to do with that. They make the decisions of what they want to do. If tomorrow they decide, to call the Mirage, Harrier, Farmer finished and close up, then that is their own decision their own fault. Their own consequence. We have nothing to do with that. Same as how they perceive our community. Everyone has been positive and putting forth great resolve in helping them fix bugs from day one of release. Only RAZ has been the ones receptive sometimes and have not shown such response back to us. Hence what I posted earlier. It’s a communication issue.

 

Statement. Listen. Response. Feedback.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Edited June 4, 2019 by Eagle7907

[Harlikwin]

I have monitored this topic on and off, keeping my mouth shut as I'm not a big fan of shaming. Today I have finished pg. 20 of this and I feel I need to say something from my point of view.

 

1:) Communication is not up to the standards of other Dev teams.

 

The statement says it all. Stop comparing. I get so busy in my occupation that lower priority items are pushed aside. I can accept this as the Topic "Change Log" is updated.

 

2:) "x" does not work. When will it work?

 

Remember, RAZBAM is a small team. I'm sure they have a small budget too. Overtime will kill any budget. To me, delays in fixing/incorporating features are signs of this. "Patience Grasshopper"

 

3:) "Does the needs of the few, or the one, outweigh the needs of the many?" Spock

 

Take a min. to review the 20+ pages of this topic, paying close attention to the ppl posting. Now figure out how may ppl have purchased the AV-8B. The gravity of this topic to RAZBAM could be guessed. Makes me think that the mere existence of this topic in the AV-8B forum is more of a clever psychological tool than an ear.

 

I started DCS with the Su-25T. After being addicted for some years I picked up other modules but never really spent time on them. I was always in the Toad... learning. Now that RAZBAM's harrier hit the scene... I have finally traded the Ruskie flight suit for a Yankee one. Haven't looked back. Speed, Payload, Payload capacity, VSTOL, TPOD, DMT, fricking Night Attack... Yeah ok... it's time for another 8hr sortie. Hopefully I'll see you out there... and not here.

 

1. Everybody compares, thats a normal human behavior. You see Dev A doing things XYZ, and Dev B maybe doing thing A some of the time, you ask yourself, hmm why is that, should I expect more from dev B? Is devA exceptional in some way? Every other dev team with an actual released module manages to communicate better than these guys IMO. Why is that?

 

2. Well size wise I'd say they are probably the 2nd largest 3rd party developer. I don't know how large HB is though and Raz may actually be bigger. But Raz is certainly larger than M3 or PC. So when they aren't hitting the same metrics as the smaller guys its a bit concerning to some folks.

 

3. Not sure what you are getting at other than Raz ignores the active community members here and elsewhere that they might perceive as "troublemakers" which is at best unprofessional and at worst quite toxic. I also guarantee that not a single customer started here as a "troublemaker", or bought the harrier so they could bitch about it. They became "troublemakers" due to how this particular dev operates. I.e. they reported bugs per the rules, and were ignored. They went on discord with questions or issues and were ignored or bullied by the razfans or banned (seen all 3 in spades there).

 

You don't see anywhere near the angst in any other dev forum like you do here. Ask yourself: Why is that?

[viper2097]

+1

[LastRifleRound]

Serious question for those on the "leave RAZBAM alone" tip here.

 

1. Do you think wheel chocks should be added to an aircraft when it's air-to-ground missions are at 20% capability, and the INS is broken? Do you think minor damage modeling should be done first, or the remaining 50% of an attack aircrafts AG profiles?

 

2. Do you think it's ok to postpone an update (not a module, but an update) a year and a half?

 

3. Do you think EASY things should be done first, or CRITICAL things?

 

4. How much, by %, of mission profiles, should an aircraft be capable of after 1 year in early access? 2? 3? 4?

 

5. If an update a dev did broke a core mission profile, how long is an acceptable time frame to fix the issue?

 

Answer JUST THOSE questions WITHOUT mentioning other devs.

[33-DFTC]

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes

5. Yes

 

 

Razbam FTW !

[bkthunder]

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes

5. Yes

 

 

Razbam FTW !

 

Lol, if you could enclose all of DCS fanboyism in a single picture, it would be a screenshot of this post. Well done, you win another subpar module at premium price, and another EA that will never be finished :thumbup:

[Knock-Knock]

Lol, if you could enclose all of DCS fanboyism in a single picture, it would be a screenshot of this post. Well done, you win another subpar module at premium price, and another EA that will never be finished :thumbup:

 

Its sarcasm, the post is dripping it.

[mkiii]

Oerr. Someone should report that - it might spread.

[Mars Exulte]

So. Much. Butthurt.

[Coxy_99]

Yeah Coxy, but we have, because we didn't know what we know now. I'm sure none of the teams want to strive for "unfunded development" and generally EA is a good thing for getting new development teams and Indie houses showcased and recognised.

 

 

 

Let's say Spec and Tony and you and I all got into this, had a model and some basic avionics done and we had a good contact on the inside and the flight data, but we were 24 months out from a fully featured module if we worked full time, or 4 years part time. No EA process would stop any ideas of that absolutely dead, because you all know how fragile teams are, how tiring long projects are and how difficult it is to keep things together.

 

 

So wind on to looking at the current 3rd parties and ask yourself if any of them are encouraged to join the process by the last 5 years of teams splitting, lack of information, angry mobs and so on. I wouldn't touch this business with someone else's barge pole, but I'm even less inclined if people have bad EA cycles and treat every new developer with as much trust as a dog next to a chocolate bar. This particular habit of poor EA has to stop as it's damaging the entire game and brand. Right now I've not purchased things in EA for the first time from ED due to two specific developers and their way of doing things. I'll not be the only person.

 

 

Good for all of us, or bad? EA income is vital on some modules that don't sell as much as the Hornet's and F-14's of this world. And people get judged when they don't perform. We are still looking at a DCS:World engine that could soak up another 10 devs just to get it into the right spot. I know this platform really well, christ I learned a programming language as a side hobby to this hobby.

 

 

If EA dies because customers get fed up with x,y or z, then it's going to hurt investment ultimately to ED, it;'s like cutting off your nose to spite your face. That's why it's good that the negative feedback is noticed. Another example of negative feedback that made a real change was ED's licensing policy on 3rd parties covering project abandonment. Think VEAO and what they did.

 

What i mean is some of the problems are user error, Or the flight model is wrong and ive never flown a real AV8B, That kind of stuff needs to stop thats all i mean, But cant produce the data or documents, In all honestly im surprised EA has not been stopped yet, And it does not surprise me if that did happen.

[Sadist_Cain]

As far as I've seen they've really pulled their finger out of late and are making strides towards completing the Harrier good & proper.

 

Whilst they deserved criticism before I don't think there's much need for concern as it is now.

There's been consistently chunky updates released fixing long standing issues, sure there's plenty to do still, however now that progress is being made at a much more reasonable pace it doesn't feel like a pipe dream anymore.

 

I appreciate the change of tact by Razbam and I think that providing they keep the attitude towards getting first things first until they're done there's no need for any concern.

[Banzaiib]

If it weren't for all the outcry and criticism, think of where development would be. EA is dangerous for consumers. Instead of paying for a product, you're paying for a promise, and if the developer slacks, what can you do, aside from complain on forums? The outcry is a good thing, when it's not toxic bickering. It's not the forums' fault RAZBAM finds itself in the company of DayZ, Starbound, and other devs that made a pile of cash from an EA on promises and took way too long to deliver. At least Star Citizen lets you get a refund...

 

Sadist may be right... maybe they don't deserve the criticism right now. Maybe they got their act together, but I'll believe it when I see it. I've been burned by EA's for so many years hearing so many promises from software developers that there's just no more credit for works in progress. Once the trust is questioned, it is very hard to get it back.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Banzaiib

[viper2097]

As this was now "a big" update after the pause of nearly one month, the fixes and additions on the Harrier seems not that much.

And again, nothing happend at the core functionality which is missing / broken / bugged since xy months...

 

Disappointing :-/

but, however, not surprising...

[Sniper175]

As this was now "a big" update after the pause of nearly one month, the fixes and additions on the Harrier seems not that much.

And again, nothing happend at the core functionality which is missing / broken / bugged since xy months...

 

Disappointing :-/

but, however, not surprising...

 

Ya she needs a overhaul, kneeboard... ok

[Rhinozherous]

Not that much again in this "Update". After announcing big words in a YouTube video, saying the Harrier will be finished now, nothing happening. Seems - to me - that Razbam has no interest in the Harrier or its customers anymore. My interest in Razbam ia gone also.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Rhinozherous

[bkthunder]

I'll just point out that the Harrier changelog is, again, the shortest of any of the modules in EA :music_whistling:

[viper2097]

And it also features the most less important issues...

Or was anyone complaining about the vanilla dcs kneeboard?

[Eagle7907]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Harlikwin]

And it also features the most less important issues...

Or was anyone complaining about the vanilla dcs kneeboard?

 

Well the kneeboard now lets you switch HMD's as well as flare amounts on the ground IIRC, I played with it for exactly 3 seconds :).

 

We got a new backup bombing mode, and some work on CCIP. So at least thats progress.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Harlikwin

[viper2097]

Was also possible before with the ground crew menu.

 

Edit:

Wow, I'm surprised. Theannoying Chaff bug is fixed... I wonder why that did not made it to the changelog?

Also a circle is now indicating the position of thr waypoint in the HUD.

 

However, got a lot of black screens on the DMT and some real weird behavor. Need to do some more tests, have not figured out yet whats it causing...

Edited June 7, 2019 by viper2097

[Jester986]

So a few posts ago I was pretty harsh on Razbam but I wanted to say thanks for the recent update. If you can keep up with regular updates and fixes I'll be pleased and willing to continue to support future products. The Harrier still needs plenty of work, but Im encouraged by recent fixes.

[Jester986]

Oh and don't start up the tpod while still on the ground. Thats probably user error but when I did it the screen freaked out.