Valve Index Hands On

[Rosebud47]

If the FPS counter of the Index shows 60 FPS, it actually delivers 120 FPS for each eye.

ASW, Reprojection etc, is not meant to be disabled in VR.

[dburne]

People interested in VR will check this forum first.

 

Like I did.

 

I think the VR cult here is doing more harm than good by praising an implementation that has very poor performance compared to other VR games, and even the same game in 4k.

 

It's really inexcusable.

 

Why do you insist on calling VR enthusiasts participating in the - wait for it - DCS VR forum, a VR Cult?

I find that rather disparaging and unneeded.

You want to debate the merits of VR - that is fine, but coming in here and labeling VR as not ready for everyone and for those that are enjoying it as a Cult is quite cynical.

 

It sounds like VR is not ready for you - you cannot make that determination for any others than yourself. No VR enthusiasts are doing the same to those that currently do not like VR.

[Svsmokey]

People interested in VR will check this forum first.

 

Like I did.

 

I think the VR cult here is doing more harm than good by praising an implementation that has very poor performance compared to other VR games, and even the same game in 4k.

 

It's really inexcusable.

 

The fact is , you did not research well before your purchase , and clearly did not appreciate the subjective nature of experience . I , and i am sure many others , read every scrap i could find on VR in these forums before taking the leap . And i am so glad i did take that leap -with a CV1 .

 

Grow up , and take responsibility for your own ill-informed decisions .

[Gunnergolly]

My only VR gaming interest are sit down flight sims, just wondering if it's possible to get by with out the controllers using one "light house" ?.

[Svsmokey]

My only VR gaming interest are sit down flight sims, just wondering if it's possible to get by with out the controllers using one "light house" ?.

 

I have researched this thoroughly , and the answer is yes !

[Supmua]

Valve Index Hands On

 

My only VR gaming interest are sit down flight sims, just wondering if it's possible to get by with out the controllers using one "light house" ?.

 

 

 

I often play DCS in complete darkness with both controllers off and sometimes only one lighthouse. So you don’t need a controller or both lighthouses to play, but you may need one controller for the initial headset set up and there might be some circumstances that require trigger button press (not 100% sure). There is a system button on the bottom left of the headset but no equivalent trigger button.

 

If you want to avoid buying the Index controller due to cost then a used Vive wand from eBay will do, but keep in mind that version 2 of the lighthouse base is only compatible with version 2 of the wand, whereas version 1 lighthouse is fully compatible with old and new wands.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Supmua

[Svsmokey]

I often play DCS in complete darkness with both controllers off and sometimes only one lighthouse. So you don’t need a controller or both lighthouses to play, but you may need one controller for the initial headset set up and there might be some circumstances that require trigger button press (not 100% sure). There is a system button on the bottom left of the headset but no equivalent trigger button.

 

If you want to avoid buying the Index controller due to cost then a used Vive wand from eBay will do, but keep in mind that version 2 of the lighthouse base is only compatible with version 2 of the wand, whereas version 1 lighthouse is fully compatible with old and new wands.

 

I asked this very question on this thread and received the following reply-from an Index owner , who , it turns out , is you :) . Have you since found something new , or does seated setup still only require a mouse ?

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3966988&postcount=382

[redcoat22]

I think the VR cult here is doing more harm than good by praising an implementation that has very poor performance compared to other VR games, and even the same game in 4k.

 

It's really inexcusable.

 

I don’t know you, nor your axe to grind; but I get 50-65 frames on 120hz... with a decent PC but nothing crazy good. You sound like a wagon horse salesman trying to convince people that automobiles suck.

 

I honestly don’t know what you are talking about.

[RealDCSpilot]

Maybe a placebo, but i just found out about the stereo_mode_use_shared_parser option in the graphics.lua. It seems to stabilize my framerate and maybe boost a little.

 

To activate it, create this file:

 

 

 

C:\Users\<YOUR-LOGIN>\Saved Games\DCS\Config\autoexec.cfg

 

 

and add the following line:

 

options.graphics.stereo_mode_use_shared_parser = true

 

I also thought using the latest openvr api couldn't harm, get it here:

 

 

 

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr/blob/master/bin/win64/openvr_api.dll

 

and place it in your \DCS World\bin folder (backup the original file)

[remi]

I don’t know you, nor your axe to grind; but I get 50-65 frames on 120hz... with a decent PC but nothing crazy good. You sound like a wagon horse salesman trying to convince people that automobiles suck.

 

I honestly don’t know what you are talking about.

 

Turn down the details and you can get whatever frame rate you want.

 

I can get 100+ on 4k with high everything.

 

VR has fewer pixels but far less performance.

 

How is this acceptable?

[VirusAM]

Turn down the details and you can get whatever frame rate you want.

 

 

 

I can get 100+ on 4k with high everything.

 

 

 

VR has fewer pixels but far less performance.

 

 

 

How is this acceptable?

That is because VR is different.

It has to calculate and render two different view points for every frame.

It is much tougher on the hardware, indipendently from the resolution

[Tom Kazansky]

Turn down the details and you can get whatever frame rate you want.

 

I can get 100+ on 4k with high everything.

 

VR has fewer pixels but far less performance.

 

How is this acceptable?

 

 

I'm interested in how much FPS are really lost between a 4k monitor an a VR like Index or Reverb. Can you please provide a screenshot comparison with the 100+ FPS and the same scenario with 4k? (No supersampling. Just as much pixels rendered as can be shown by the displays.)

[M1Combat]

@whoever was complaining about VR here... Can't be arsed to check who it was...

 

 

It has more to do with calculating the location of objects in 3D space for a VR setup vs. a single view setup.

 

The number if pixels it all gets broken down into is relevant but not as much as placing objects. Other games don't run the HUGE environments that we do, which are ALSO loaded down with ENTIRE TOWNS, railways, trees, light poles, power lines, Civ traffic...

 

Seriously...

 

Try to think about what you say before you say it OK :)...

 

I'm not trying to say that the VR implementation in DCS is perfect... I'm sure it could be improved (Look at Kegety's mod for example)... but it's good enough that for a long time I ran a Vive on a 970 and a 4.2Ghz i5-3500K...

 

If you prefer 4K... Then go run it. I have a 4K monitor and a Vive. The Vive beats it hands down. It's not a VR problem entirely. There are LOTS of people who prefer it in DCS. It's a you problem. YOU aren't willing to get over the issues you see with DCS in VR. I am. It's all good man :).

[remi]

I'm interested in how much FPS are really lost between a 4k monitor an a VR like Index or Reverb. Can you please provide a screenshot comparison with the 100+ FPS and the same scenario with 4k? (No supersampling. Just as much pixels rendered as can be shown by the displays.)

 

The Valve Index is equipped with two LCD screens featuring a 1440×1600 resolution per eye (2880×1600 combined resolution).

 

4,608,000 pixels total

 

4k is 3840 x 2160 pixels

 

8,294,400 pixels total

 

I'm getting double the FPS in 4k compared with VR.

 

The Valve Index has 55% of the pixels of 4k. That means that DCS 4k has 4x better performance than the Index in DCS VR.

 

 

There's something seriously wrong with DCS VR. And the quality of in-game textures, models, lighting is far better in 4k anyway.

[Rosebud47]

just double the performance you´re counting for VR, then you should be fine.

With VR there are regularly two frames per second rendered ( left and right eye simultaneously ).

If you so will, the Index renders at 240 FPS.

 

But please don´t tell anyone, that I have said this nonsense.

[RealDCSpilot]

@remi

 

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Every VR HMD has it's panel resolutions and a rendertarget which is higher because of predistortions which have to calculated before rendered in the headset. So for panel res of the Index the 1.0x or 100% super sampling resolution is 1.4x the panel resolution = 2016 x 2240 per eye. This means 9.031.680 pixels for both panels.

For 2080ti users SteamVR sets the standard resolution even higher -> SS 150% ! (2468x2740) This means DCS is pushing 13.524.640 pixels and delivers a clean and sharp image in the HMD running at 45fps if locked in motion smoothing.

[M1Combat]

^^^^^^

[Tom Kazansky]

@remi

 

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Every VR HMD has it's panel resolutions and a rendertarget which is higher because of predistortions which have to calculated before rendered in the headset. So for panel res of the Index the 1.0x or 100% super sampling resolution is 1.4x the panel resolution = 2016 x 2240 per eye. This means 9.031.680 pixels for both panels.

For 2080ti users SteamVR sets the standard resolution even higher -> SS 150% ! (2468x2740) This means DCS is pushing 13.524.640 pixels and delivers a clean and sharp image in the HMD running at 45fps if locked in motion smoothing.

 

 

Thanks for that.

 

 

Will it ever be possible to avoid this overhead rendering? E.g. when a game knows that a HMD is used to avoid distortion. And: how would the VR experience look like if it was possible to render and send the native resolution to the HMD?

[RealDCSpilot]

The way predistortions are applied is very dependent on the optics system used in each HMD, so the best strategy will always be the vendors vr-compositor software with calibrated predistortions for each individual HMD. It would be way too much effort for a game developer to implement all those variations and possibilities.

Atm, we are many years away from "native resolution to HMD", since 2016 the resolutions got a good bump up, but we would need so much more pixel density for panels and render power to fight aliasing and get "monitor-sharpness". Look how far you have to sit away from a modern lcd monitor to not notify any pixels, now imagine that this panel has to be huge enough to fill your FOV completely. VR will be there someday, i'm sure, but i'm also glad that everything that's possible today makes it already very enjoyable. I'm never going back to flatgaming, i can't take it seriously anymore. Why should i look through a tank drivers slit, when i can see everything around me?

[Witulo]

REMI=Troll

[Tom Kazansky]

The way predistortions are applied is very dependent on the optics system used in each HMD, so the best strategy will always be the vendors vr-compositor software with calibrated predistortions for each individual HMD. It would be way too much effort for a game developer to implement all those variations and possibilities.

Atm, we are many years away from "native resolution to HMD", since 2016 the resolutions got a good bump up, but we would need so much more pixel density for panels and render power to fight aliasing and get "monitor-sharpness". Look how far you have to sit away from a modern lcd monitor to not notify any pixels, now imagine that this panel has to be huge enough to fill your FOV completely. VR will be there someday, i'm sure, but i'm also glad that everything that's possible today makes it already very enjoyable. I'm never going back to flatgaming, i can't take it seriously anymore. Why should i look through a tank drivers slit, when i can see everything around me?

 

 

thanks a lot for your explanation :thumbup:

[Loz]

REMI=Troll

 

Agreed. Please DON'T feed the Troll.

[Supmua]

Valve Index Hands On

 

 

For people who wear glasses but don’t want the hassle. Zenni sells pretty cheap glasses. Make sure you use that particular glass frame and pick IPD 69.

[Callsign.Vega]

So I have the Reverb and it looks quite washed out compared to the OLED Vive Pro.

 

I also have the Index inbound. Is the colors and contrast terrible on the Index LCD panels too?

[imacken]

So I have the Reverb and it looks quite washed out compared to the OLED Vive Pro.

 

I also have the Index inbound. Is the colors and contrast terrible on the Index LCD panels too?

 

Yep, that was one of the reasons why I sent my Reverb back.

Like you, I’m waiting on the Index now.