My most expensive module by far... feeling bad..

[3WA]

After years of crying about a RWR we finally get a President-S system, wow what a surprise! Greate News!

BS2 is 8 years old, to pay for a capability upgrade to BS3 is ok. The texture patch for BS2 is for free, i don't understand what the problem is? ED is doing there job and they need to be paid for. Hope they do the same for the A10C to get a HMD! and may be a engine model with temperature simulation and functunal override switch to get some more horsepower. Thank you ED

 

 

Yeah, a good compromise for now.

 

 

Just please add the FLIR turret, like on the Ka-50N, so we can do NIGHT MISSIONS as well. This copter is useless at night, at least for attack.

Edited June 1, 2019 by 3WA

[Jester986]

My two cents...

 

I really don't have a problem with his and I'll buy the upgrade. It just makes me a bit nervous about the potential for selling individual features. There was that WW1 flight sim where they would sell compasses VSI's etc after you bought a plane. If ED wants to sell me a new variant great! Out comes my wallet! Like the F-5 that had mavericks or something like that. But just don't charge me for something that should have come with the aircraft like Huey multi crew or adding a tpod or weapon system to an aircraft that should have had it. And I'm not saying you will do that it just makes me raise an eyebrow.

 

Now I know these aircraft need maintenance and its difficult to justify spending the money on them when you've already sold about as many as you ever will. I really don't want a subscription based service but given the nature of DCS maybe it should be considered?

[3WA]

My two cents...

 

I really don't have a problem with his and I'll buy the upgrade. It just makes me a bit nervous about the potential for selling individual features. There was that WW1 flight sim where they would sell compasses VSI's etc after you bought a plane. If ED wants to sell me a new variant great! Out comes my wallet! Like the F-5 that had mavericks or something like that. But just don't charge me for something that should have come with the aircraft like Huey multi crew or adding a tpod or weapon system to an aircraft that should have had it. And I'm not saying you will do that it just makes me raise an eyebrow.

 

Now I know these aircraft need maintenance and its difficult to justify spending the money on them when you've already sold about as many as you ever will. I really don't want a subscription based service but given the nature of DCS maybe it should be considered?

 

 

The reason I'm willing to pay for the BS upgrade, is that I and others have been bitching about how defenseless it is for the past ELEVEN YEARS. :p

I'm finally getting at least most of what I've been wanting, so I guess I'll try and scrape up a few bucks for it. I think it should have been there all along ( just on the switches in the cockpit alone!), but the MLWS is a nice addition as well, making it more modern. My only gripe left is FLIR and a third pylon for Iglas like the Ka-52 has. *Cough* The switch is there for the third pylon! A-A! *Cough*

 

 

IMO, the Ka-50 was the prototype for the Ka-52, and eventually morphed into it. It's basically just a two seat version of the Ka-50, so why shouldn't it be able to carry the weapons and defenses the Ka-52 can?

Edited June 1, 2019 by 3WA

[twistking]

My two cents...

 

I really don't have a problem with his and I'll buy the upgrade. It just makes me a bit nervous about the potential for selling individual features. There was that WW1 flight sim where they would sell compasses VSI's etc after you bought a plane. If ED wants to sell me a new variant great! Out comes my wallet! Like the F-5 that had mavericks or something like that. But just don't charge me for something that should have come with the aircraft like Huey multi crew or adding a tpod or weapon system to an aircraft that should have had it. And I'm not saying you will do that it just makes me raise an eyebrow.

 

Now I know these aircraft need maintenance and its difficult to justify spending the money on them when you've already sold about as many as you ever will. I really don't want a subscription based service but given the nature of DCS maybe it should be considered?

 

I agree with everything but the subscription model. I think subscription models are just bad practice most of the time.

But couldn't DCS have a normal pay-to-play model, where every two years comes a new version as a paid update.

Brought modules would transfer over of yourse and those who don't want to update can keep on flying in the legacy version.

Feature modules (carrier, asset pack) and maybe some maps could be included with the base game...

[3WA]

I agree with everything but the subscription model. I think subscription models are just bad practice most of the time.

But couldn't DCS have a normal pay-to-play model, where every two years comes a new version as a paid update.

Brought modules would transfer over of yourse and those who don't want to update can keep on flying in the legacy version.

Feature modules (carrier, asset pack) and maybe some maps could be included with the base game...

 

 

Yeah, I'm against the subscription model as well, for now. Those things just never seem to pan out well.

[NineLine]

It just makes me a bit nervous about the potential for selling individual features.

 

If ED decides they can do a newer block, or variant, it will be based on the amount of work needed to do it.

 

As an example.

 

The Spitfire and P-51s received different variants, but the changes were minor enough not to warrant extra charges.

 

The Fw-190A-8 is almost a completely different aircraft from the D-9, so it warranted it's own module.

 

The Black Shark, while we still need deeper details on all that will come with it, we do know that the changes are extensive enough to require a paid update, but not an entirely new module.

 

Subscription model really wouldn't work well with DCS, not where you expect certain things at certain times anyways, such as you suggested for updated features every two years or something, many aircraft are locked in where they are at, and for a number of reasons cant be upgraded further at this time.

[Jester986]

I don't like a subscription model either. it ends up being much more money in the long run, but that's the point. Old modules need maintenance, ED has to pay for it. So they release a new module but with every new module they are supporting the maintenance of more and more old ones so they see diminishing returns. It's like the failing American program of social security. fewer people paying in to support more retirees. Eventually it will be impossible for ED to pay for the maintenance of 30 old modules by releasing one new one. So one by one older modules will be come incompatible as maintenance stops. Or i suppose they can periodically have us pay to upgrade an old module to the newest version of DCS world...

[Jester986]

If ED decides they can do a newer block, or variant, it will be based on the amount of work needed to do it.

 

As an example.

 

The Spitfire and P-51s received different variants, but the changes were minor enough not to warrant extra charges.

 

The Fw-190A-8 is almost a completely different aircraft from the D-9, so it warranted it's own module.

 

The Black Shark, while we still need deeper details on all that will come with it, we do know that the changes are extensive enough to require a paid update, but not an entirely new module.

 

Subscription model really wouldn't work well with DCS, not where you expect certain things at certain times anyways, such as you suggested for updated features every two years or something, many aircraft are locked in where they are at, and for a number of reasons cant be upgraded further at this time.

 

Understood Nineline. And to be clear I wasn't complaining about the blackshark upgrade and the FW-190A-8 is clearly something that should be paid for. I just don't want to see a situation where you buy a module then add on it's features ala carte.

[Fri13]

I thin that the price is acceptable, regardless what it now is, especially if it is fair.

 

Now, when was KA-50 Black Shark released? How many hours has the buyer enjoyed about it since then? Huh?

 

If your hobby is to fly KA-50, then what value are you ready to put to your hobby per year? 1000€ is not much for many amateurs for their hobby, as it is question of the love.

 

100€ a year would be less than 10€ a month and that is fairy acceptabe for the content you can have with it.

 

At least be happy that ED has not even shined a idea for subscription based model and hopefully never will!!!!

 

But paying that extra for the KA-50 refresh, new weapons, new self-defence suit etc, that is IMHO very very acceptabe thing and it is not like you should now pay for HARM or TWS to be added to Hornet!

 

This is why I would like to see ED and 3rd parties start to make a variants that are behind extra small upgrade price.

 

Like example, Mig-21Bis is the base module, you need that. but if you own it, you can buy MiG-21F-13 and then another license for MiG-21MF.

Same thing, Mi-24P as base, extras for Mi-24VP and V variants. It would always be base + variant X + variant Y + n when it comes to pricing.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Fri13

[DirkLarien]

Whilst not promising too much and I don't know ED's plan in this regard, but I have been working on addressing the Ka-50 mission sets for such issues:

 

 

1. BS2 Georgian Oil War campaign - WIP, a lot of work to do, but would expect most critical crashing issues fixed - 50% complete.
   
2. BS2 Medvedev campaigns - WIP, 0% complete
   
3. BS2 Deployment campaign - WIP, 50% complete
   
4. BS2 Single missions (All) - 75% complete
   

I am thinking of posting up the WIP missions to the ED website "user files section" for people to test as I fix them, starting with the GOW campaign and all of the single missions.

 

Regards, Ian.

 

That is great !

:thumbup:

Thank you so much for doing that.

[flyingscotsman]

Sorry but I’m with ED/WAG’s on this, how much has it cost us all to keep up with the software that runs our computers, we may not be happy, but we upgrade to get benefits. same here, we all had to pay out, now divide by the time we have had it, IMHO, BARGAIN.

I knew when we startedI may have to pay for modules, this is a niche market. Take a look at the numbers of people viewing on a launch day, it does not say, hundreds of thousands. Software developers have families, like us, they need to eat, like us, yep I’m ready to pay. I’m a military pensioner, but I enjoy the simulation of something I couldnever do in real life.Thank you, ED and all developers.

[SatThuVoBui]

If ED decides they can do a newer block, or variant, it will be based on the amount of work needed to do it.

 

As an example.

 

The Spitfire and P-51s received different variants, but the changes were minor enough not to warrant extra charges.

 

The Fw-190A-8 is almost a completely different aircraft from the D-9, so it warranted it's own module.

 

The Black Shark, while we still need deeper details on all that will come with it, we do know that the changes are extensive enough to require a paid update, but not an entirely new module.

 

Subscription model really wouldn't work well with DCS, not where you expect certain things at certain times anyways, such as you suggested for updated features every two years or something, many aircraft are locked in where they are at, and for a number of reasons cant be upgraded further at this time.

 

 

But if the changes are extensive enough to warrant a charge, wouldn't it follow that our Ka-50 is being upgraded to a higher variant? What I'm hoping is that the changes aren't an inclusion of features and aspects of the Black shark that should've been present from the beginning according to its model.

[=37.Sqn= Mjugen]

I’m with ED/WAG’s on this.

[Weta43]

But if the changes are extensive enough to warrant a charge, wouldn't it follow that our Ka-50 is being upgraded to a higher variant? What I'm hoping is that the changes aren't an inclusion of features and aspects of the Black shark that should've been present from the beginning according to its model.

 

So you'll be arguing that your copy of the long awaited DCS.F-15C module will be free because you think the clickable cockpit should have been present on your FC3 F-15C ? ("Why should I pay extra for an upgrade when it's the same plane I've paid for already ? - All those extra clickable functions are just things they should have included in the first place !")

 

The features the Ka-50 had when it was sold are the features that you paid for when you bought it, and any systems that might have been modelled but weren't - well they weren't included in the purchase price, so you haven't paid for them.

 

Igla, FLIR, WLWS, filters on the Schval - none of those were listed as features of the module you've paid for, if they're added now to an upgrade - well you have never paid for them, why should you receive them for free ? (other than "I feel I deserve it !!!")

[NineLine]

But if the changes are extensive enough to warrant a charge, wouldn't it follow that our Ka-50 is being upgraded to a higher variant? What I'm hoping is that the changes aren't an inclusion of features and aspects of the Black shark that should've been present from the beginning according to its model.

 

The Black Shark has been feature complete for a long time, so anything you get now is extra on top of that. In order to develop those new items that weren't promised back then, require development time, that means a real human or a number of humans need to work on it and create all these things. If it takes to a new Block, or better completes the one we have, it doesnt matter, there is work required to do it, and it was something that wasnt available to be done back in 2011.

[Dav IRL]

I bought Blackshark standalone, followed by the upgrade to 2, followed by the full version on sale. Regardless, I would prefer to pay for a quality upgrade from version 2 to 3, as I am sure allot of effort has gone into the new module. I have no idea why some posters are complaining; when they get the visual upgrade for free, the option to pay for new systems is just that, an option, as in, we all believed we were getting a cockpit upgrade let alone an exterior and systems upgrade. Its amazing news and its disappointing that users think they are entitled to new systems when in fact they are not.

[RuskyV]

I understand first and foremost money needs to be made i do however think its a little off when all i see so far from the list is a quality of life update. If you intend to update the cockpit textures that's fine (frankly they need doing), if however this is a new variant of the black shark then why don't you market it as such and have two module variants?

 

like the OP has said there is a lot of people that have paid a few times over for this particular module and im worried this could be a new trend being set as an alternate way of making more money, concerns especially with the A10c updates coming in the future.

 

I'm a supporter of ED and have been for a number of years, i've also seen some really bad decisions that have caused ripples through the community, I really hope that this is not going to be the start of a future trend being introduced to us here because this would be a rather unsavory way of turning over money in the future..

 

For me personally i will happily take the free texture update but as for the "upgrade" im going to hold onto my cash and let others tell me first if the value of this new update/upgrade is worth the extra features!

 

One thing that i have learned over the years of being a ED fan is to be far more cautious about where i lay down my hard earned cash especially around early access modules and beta's.

[msalama]

BS3 with new subsystems and added functionality? Yeah, count me in. Will buy.

[twistking]

If ED decides they can do a newer block, or variant, it will be based on the amount of work needed to do it.

 

As an example.

 

The Spitfire and P-51s received different variants, but the changes were minor enough not to warrant extra charges.

 

The Fw-190A-8 is almost a completely different aircraft from the D-9, so it warranted it's own module.

 

The Black Shark, while we still need deeper details on all that will come with it, we do know that the changes are extensive enough to require a paid update, but not an entirely new module.

 

Subscription model really wouldn't work well with DCS, not where you expect certain things at certain times anyways, such as you suggested for updated features every two years or something, many aircraft are locked in where they are at, and for a number of reasons cant be upgraded further at this time.

 

I was the one suggesting the two year or so paid upgrade, but i didn't mean it as an update per module, but as a paid update for the base game.

Basically like all the other flightsims and games do it with a completely new version sold every few years.

Only difference in DCS would be that your already bought modules would transfer over to the new version (alternatively make them not transfer over, but sell the modules significantly (!) cheaper).

 

So if i own the A-10c and DCS 3.0 gets released i could either keep on flying my module in the then current built 2.xx forever or i could buy the new DCS 3.0 and transfer my module over to it and enjoy new core features. So no newer block a-10c module upgrade needed, just an update for it to make use of new features of the updated base game.

Edited June 2, 2019 by twistking

[SmirkingGerbil]

Trying to keep it balanced here, seems to be a lot of comparisons to "Corporate", payment for "services rendered", and automobile comparisons.

 

 

Bought her in 2011, love it. Still love it (though a bit dusty right now).

 

 

Will buy the upgrade. Easy buy, easy decision. Dollar for dollar entertainment wise, a steal.

[dimitriov]

Yup, 3000 h on it here... So well, 40 bucks for 3000 h... 0.013 bucks an hour... Cheaper than real helo lol

 

So no problem for me. Actually, some may be shocked etc, but practicing 3D modeling and texturing, I know that the new 3D model and cockpit would take a good 3D maker around 6 months of work. So even if they asked me to pay for this, I wouldn't consider it as shocking. I understand people who would, but with nowadays graphics, people tend to consider that 3D stuff is not a real job that you should be paid for, while it's a domain as hard and tedious as coding.

 

I paid for a 2012 helicopter simulation. Not for a 2019 one.

 

Still, they could take this opportunity to add more stuff than what they seem to add. After all, when you start back from scrap all the 3D, well, making a FLIR or something like this won't be a big addition in terms of work amount, at least for 3D. And if you guys need beta testers, count me in ;)

 

Nicolas

Edited June 2, 2019 by dimitriov

[ThorBrasil]

I'm sorry you feel that way. To update the Ka-50 (one of our earliest DCS modules) takes a lot of time, money, and opportunity lost from other projects. We do realize though that the Ka-50 needs a lot of love to bring up up to par with our more recent modules. As with any module though, we need to find a means for it to pay for itself, so we simply cannot give away the entire update for free. We have staff to pay and lights to keep on.

 

As a compromise, we are giving away the all new and greatly improved external model and cockpit for free to all Ka-50 users. However, if you want to have the additional functions, I'm sorry, but we need some compensation for the work.

 

I hope you understand.

 

Thanks

 

I understand and I will buy it! :thumbup::pilotfly:

[finch]

so now, the 1 million question...

 

 

when will be the new ka-50 update available? 2 weeks? 2 months? 2 years?

[falcon_120]

I will buy the upgrade.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

[Dav IRL]

Trying to keep it balanced here, seems to be a lot of comparisons to "Corporate", payment for "services rendered", and automobile comparisons.

 

 

Bought her in 2011, love it. Still love it (though a bit dusty right now).

 

 

Will buy the upgrade. Easy buy, easy decision. Dollar for dollar entertainment wise, a steal.

 

100% and well said.