Wake turbulence

[Yo-Yo]

Yes i know this.

What i meant was that i'd like to know how much a MIG-21 is affected compared to a F/A-18 or an A-10, since that's highly dependant on the plane itself.

The overall effect is probably the same, just how much does it differ between modules?

 

It depends on the way the FM uses. ED PFM uses multi-element aitframe/rotor approach, and the air velocity vectors are sampled from the corresponding points of the world atmosphere.

 

The correct vectors applied to correct airframe elements give natural effect of the vortices.

 

If 3rd parties models use the same method , they will truly encounter this effect too.

 

Other approaches require massive additional efforts to implement the effect correctly or even plausible.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Yo-Yo

[OttoPus]

The WT simulation is a great addition, I just experienced it last night in multiplayer during takeoffs, landings and AAR. Good work!

[Eaglewings]

The wake turbulence has been great for me since it was introduced. I have had a few AAR missions with WT turned on. I must confess AAR without wake turbulence it is a lot easier to do than when wake turbulence is switched on.

 

I have had mine turned off for a while now after report that wake turbulence has adverse effect in VR. FPS and stuttering issues.

 

I will turn it on again and have a go at it.

As much As I like the immersion WT brings, a good vr experience would take priority.

A very welcome addition.

Good job ED.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Eaglewings

[Gierasimov]

Interesting concept

 

If 3rd parties models use the same method , they will truly encounter this effect too.

.

 

Very interesting remarks Yo-Yo, this is awesome stuff.

Coming back to 3rd parties though, I was under impression that all of these use EFM (External Flight Model) which i understood as a sort of framework standard. I know that ultimately, flight model, is the hardest part in DCS aircraft development (or a missile for that matter), but aren't all 3rd parties using the same methods? From what you say here it looks like they don't, which comes as a surprise actually.

 

Is it up to the 3rd party to decide to include wake turbulence in their product?

[Fri13]

This again reminds about the USAF Colonel RedFlag debriefing laughing about Indians requesting 30 seconds delay between take-off that would delay whole training schedule too much, and then claiming that was just a sign of their Su-30MKI engines being very vulnerable to FOB....

 

Instead how about their knowledge about wake-turbulence dangers?

[rrohde]

This again reminds about the USAF Colonel RedFlag debriefing laughing about Indians requesting 30 seconds delay between take-off that would delay whole training schedule too much, and then claiming that was just a sign of their Su-30MKI engines being very vulnerable to FOB....

 

Instead how about their knowledge about wake-turbulence dangers?

 

 

Interesting - you'd think that ATCs are the ones that call the shots on departing AC, based on their knowledge of wake turbulence separation requirements. :)

 

Also - what's FOB in this context? I am only familiar with FOD (Foreign Object Debris).

[Emmy]

Hey Yo Yo...

 

Does the mass of the given aircraft affect the wake turbulence?

 

Does a Tanker or AWACS stir up the “air” more than a pointy jet?

[sobek]

Does the mass of the given aircraft affect the wake turbulence?

 

 

You should watch the video...

 

Speed, size, AoA all have an effect.

Edited September 3, 2019 by sobek

[rrohde]

Speed, size, AoA all have an effect.

 

Would be nice if in the future our enhanced ATC would consider that for landings at any given runway as well - wake turbulence separation.

[VampireNZ]

Hey Yo Yo...

 

Does the mass of the given aircraft affect the wake turbulence?

 

Does a Tanker or AWACS stir up the “air” more than a pointy jet?

 

Have a read of the Wake Turbulence pdf from the NZ CAA I posted previously in the thread.

[Emmy]

Have a read of the Wake Turbulence pdf from the NZ CAA I posted previously in the thread.

 

As a PP-ASEL, I’m aware of what it means in real life...

 

I’m talking specifically in DCS.

[Fri13]

Interesting - you'd think that ATCs are the ones that call the shots on departing AC, based on their knowledge of wake turbulence separation requirements. :)[/Quote]

 

I believe it was the Indian ATC that made the request.

 

Also - what's FOB in this context? I am only familiar with FOD (Foreign Object Debris).

 

Sorry for autotypo on phone keyboard, FOD and not FOB (Forward Operating Base).

[Owl Dynamic]

Hey Yo Yo...

 

Does the mass of the given aircraft affect the wake turbulence?

 

Does a Tanker or AWACS stir up the “air” more than a pointy jet?

 

 

Since the other two replies simply redirected you, here is the answer.

Yes, it does. A heavier aircraft needs to run an engine more powerful than the same aircraft with less weight and needs a higher speed for takeoff. Both of these increase the wake turbulence.

[mue]

Very interesting remarks Yo-Yo, this is awesome stuff.

Coming back to 3rd parties though, I was under impression that all of these use EFM (External Flight Model) which i understood as a sort of framework standard. I know that ultimately, flight model, is the hardest part in DCS aircraft development (or a missile for that matter), but aren't all 3rd parties using the same methods? From what you say here it looks like they don't, which comes as a surprise actually.

 

Is it up to the 3rd party to decide to include wake turbulence in their product?

 

 

AFAIU with the external flight model the whole flight model computation must be done by the 3rd party (i.e. no framework). I assume there is only a interface definition (API) that provides/defines the interaction DCS World <-> Module.

So the question is, what 3rd party modules really react to the wake turbulence velocity field provided by the DCS World engine? I'm curious.

[Yo-Yo]

AFAIU with the external flight model the whole flight model computation must be done by the 3rd party (i.e. no framework). I assume there is only a interface definition (API) that provides/defines the interaction DCS World <-> Module.

So the question is, what 3rd party modules really react to the wake turbulence velocity field provided by the DCS World engine? I'm curious.

 

If they use airframe-element based method, their model will react properly (more or less - depending on number of elements) as soon as the wake turbulence is on. If not - I am afraid the 3rd party will have a lot of work to imitate it...

[mue]

If they use airframe-element based method, their model will react properly (more or less - depending on number of elements) as soon as the wake turbulence is on. If not - I am afraid the 3rd party will have a lot of work to imitate it...

 

 

Does ED know which 3rd party modules use airframe-element based method and which do not? Maybe this info can be posted here?

[Yo-Yo]

Does ED know which 3rd party modules use airframe-element based method and which do not? Maybe this info can be posted here?

 

No, the way they make their FM is a big secret... :)

 

But now one can find out it just flying Su-27 or MiG-29 or Mustang or Ka-50 through the vortex and compare to any other model...

[de.Impact]

Is modelling the downdraft effect for helicopters still planned? Visually and for turbulences?

[Dee-Jay]

Hi!

 

Currently

.

Maybe I've missed some posts or announcements, but is there some plans to fix/enhance the wake trub by reducing its effects and/or making it proportional to the weight and speed of a/c?

 

Regards.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Dee-Jay

[Airhunter]

Apparently a low priority so it's best to turn them off for now.

[Dee-Jay]

Apparently a low priority so it's

 

Low prio?(!) ... okay.

 

best to turn them off for now.

 

Sure.

Thank you for the hint!

 

Regards.

[oldcrusty]

I'm sure you guys have seen this post (vid link in it)

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4289103&postcount=28

[Airhunter]

I'm sure you guys have seen this post (vid link in it)

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4289103&postcount=28

 

Yes, I'm sorry but that's kinda an area I know quite a lot about and small fighter jets wont create as significant of vortices as is shown in some videos. You can gladly argue that with me via PM.

[oldcrusty]

Yes, I'm sorry but that's kinda an area I know quite a lot about and small fighter jets wont create as significant of vortices as is shown in some videos. You can gladly argue that with me via PM.

I don't need to:music_whistling:

Anyways, my "opinion" on wake turbulence in DCS (at least in the Hornet) is positive for the most part. I haven't encountered any radical effects described by some simmers here.

[Dee-Jay]

I'm sure you guys have seen this post (vid link in it)

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4289103&postcount=28

 

I had few experience of wake turb in real life on

, M2000 and

... one day my TB-30 flipped 3/4 upside down on its own (after takeoff passing 1000ft/AGL climbing to 1500ft) due to C-160 wake turbs (and/or prop wash) despite the 3min delay at takeoff. Quite used to (accidentally) pass thought my leader's jet wash also when I was on AJet ... (ooops)

 

However ... I can tell you that what I see in game has nothing realistic for a Jet like F-16 or M2000 passing thought the wake tub of a KC-135.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Dee-Jay