fixed Shkval slew control with analog axes

[Bourrinopathe]

Nature of the issue:

Using an analog ministick to control the Shkval slew axes is defective.

 

There's a noticeable default deadzone and the deadzone increases as the axes curvatures are increased.

The resulting axes response does not provide a sufficient control and accuracy.

 

Hardware used:

VKB-Sim Gunfighter + MCG Pro, analog ministick, no deadzone.

 

Tests:

Axes in the control options:

- Absolute SHKVAL Horizontal Slew

- Absolute SHKVAL Vertical Slew

 

Increasing the curvature of the axes (tested 40 then 70) (trying to achieve slower and precise response for small movements) progressively increases the default deadzone.

On the following picture the Shkval camera just starts to respond. Note the position of the axe (Rot Z) on the analog stick.

The green dots are the center/neutral positions for the ministick axes.

 

 

Reducing the saturation (Y) for both axes to 20 increases accuracy (less jumpy) and makes the default deadzone less noticeable.

BUT, the max speed for the Shkval axes is greatly reduced.

 

 

In the current state binding analog axes to the Shkval slew makes it barely usable and, tracking and locking targets is very uncomfortable.

 

Hopefully this is already fixed for the upcoming Black Shark 3 upgrade.

A fix for the current version would be very welcome.

 

If anyone has a solution, other than binding multiple controls and hats/buttons/mouse to make more precise movements, please do share your tricks ;)

Edited February 28, 2020 by Bourrinopathe

[Fri13]

I have spent lots of time to tweak the shkval axis. In SU-25T it is easier than in KA-50.

 

And I am about same positions as your finding. Heavy reduction in saturation and apply some curves.

 

But you get good large scale movement, but really lose the fine tune for a tank size targets. Where you start to jump over targets and spend seconds to get gate on target.

 

That deadzone should go!

The ultra high sensitivity should as well go!

 

The default should be close to real sleeving behavior!

[fudabidu]

This has been bothering me since I got a joystick with analogue TDC cursor 7 or 8 years ago! Funniest thing is some people were calling me crazy, because they couldn't believe how messed up the analogue TDC controls are.

 

There is a built in deadzone you just can't get rid off. If you make it past the deadzone the minimum axis response is way too much. You just can't make tiny adjustments reliably.

The TGP on A-10, F/A-18 or F-16 on the other hand can be controlled perfectly smooth.

 

The only "fix" I found was mapping the Shkval TDC to a spare hat switch and tapping it for small adjustments.

 

This should have been fixed years ago already so please fix it for BS3.

[RpSPT]

Analog axes really are only usable for large movements with Skhval. Have to use castle switch for small adjustments. Not only because of the deadzone but the Skhval is missing acceleration that the digital control has which is why digital is better in small adjustments. The camera seems to follows the thumbstick with infinite speed. This can be tested with any analog gamepad if not having one on the flight stick.

[Dr Zaius]

This should be the most simple of things to fix please ED, that is all.

[Crash *]

Analog axes really are only usable for large movements with Skhval. Have to use castle switch for small adjustments. Not only because of the deadzone but the Skhval is missing acceleration that the digital control has which is why digital is better in small adjustments. The camera seems to follows the thumbstick with infinite speed. This can be tested with any analog gamepad if not having one on the flight stick.

 

 

This should be fixed soon.

[Bourrinopathe]

I really hope soon is closer than only two more weeks ;)

That's a serious issue imho.

It impairs the efficiency of the targeting that's crucial near threats (even trying to dispatch targets from a safe distance - it makes things much slower and inaccurate due to the clunky controls). Just as mentioned above by other users.

 

Now, we have no idea how the real ministick and Shkval behaves but I'm pretty sure it must have a better efficiency.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Bourrinopathe

[River]

Anything for us ED? The Slew in the Blackshark is still horrible, please respond and give us some info on that. Thanks.

[Cantankerous]

Hi everyone sorry Im not ED.

 

 

Glad to read this post because I have been struggling with the Ka50 Shkval for a while and thought it was me.

 

 

 

Clearly Im not alone.

 

 

 

Roll on Black Shark 3

[PhilSkyfire]

+1 ... thanks for the suggestions. It's quite annoying.

[David OC]

Yep i agree it needs a tweak and smoothed out.

I use a combo of ch mini joystick then a modifier and hat switch when close, not optimal but works when fine tuning.

[Murey2]

+1 the sensitivity is unbelievable like in missions I would think twice before touching it, because it jumps to the sky or whatever away instead of moving slowly. spent hours trying to solve it still not easy.

[bear.is.flying]

I also have this problem. Like many others I am using the ministick for large movements and a separate hat for fine adjustments.

 

I think the real problem is that the slew rate with the analog stick is the same in terms of degrees per second whether you’re zoomed in or zoomed out. In the A-10 for example, the slew rate is proportionate with zoom level to allow finer adjustments when zoomed in.

[fudabidu]

I love how this has been an issue for years and we still don't have an official response.

[Rogue Trooper]

I also have this problem. Like many others I am using the ministick for large movements and a separate hat for fine adjustments.

 

I think the real problem is that the slew rate with the analog stick is the same in terms of degrees per second whether you’re zoomed in or zoomed out. In the A-10 for example, the slew rate is proportionate with zoom level to allow finer adjustments when zoomed in.

 

This is the same in the Gazelle, the more zoom the finer it adjusts.

[KAKTYC_11]

Also have the same problem with skhval

[blunt_waco]

What? I Have to buy BS3 for this to work properly!!

[M1Combat]

I don't have my settings available but as I recall I have had good luck using "user curve".

 

It should be fixed for sure though. Not sure what's wrong with it and honestly the post up there saying "this should be the easiest thing in the world to fix" is a tad rude ;).

[BranchPrediction]

yeah, this is indeed a problem. How i would love to have a 'smooth' shkval.

[IdefixRC]

Using these with my Virpil Throttle. Works okish.

Original Post: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=95729

 

Values:

 

Y Saturation:56

Dead zone: 13 (you must use a deadzone so the slew x & Y axis don't mix up)

Custom curve: 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 17, 40, 60, 80, 90.

[MarcT-NL]

+1

[Schlomo1933]

+1 pls remove the deadzone

[Sh4rk]

It's waaaay clunky the way it works now. I also have to use 2 separate controls (ministick and hat) to effectively use the Shkval with any precision AND decent slew rate.

 

I'll just join the bandwagon and say I want this fixed at least on BS3.

[Alleluia]

+1.

 

I think there is no need for more words.

 

This system is bugged as hell and it's just 10 months old ...

Edited December 16, 2020 by Alleluia

[Red Yeti]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:10 PM, Alleluia said:

+1.

 

I think there is no need for more words.

 

This system is bugged as hell and it's just 10 months old ...

 

 

You mean 10 years.