FW190D9 can't dogfight.

[razo+r]

So that necessarily means it's in the Open Beta.. Assumption is the mother of all failures.

 

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Hmm, where did you get the "assumption" and "its in the OB" part from? Definitly not from my message.

[amazingme]

Hmm, where did you get the "assumption" and "its in the OB" part from? Definitly not from my message.

Nope, not from your message.

 

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[amazingme]

It's not about respect but politeness. You dont have to respect the other person, to be polite to him.

 

As for the disagreement. You brought up the point about changes in P-51D FM. That you think it was beefed up and you have strong evidence for that. And when others disagreed, you call them whiners.

Present the evidence and lets talk this over because you havent addressed yet data I posted on previous page about ingame recordings made by Yoyo 8 years ago. And its easy enough to replicate this top speed test. 61" MAP, 3000 RPM and Auto radiators. I usually test in ICAO standard atmosphere but thats up to you.

I didn't call anyone a whiner, it's the other way around. This is a forum where people can express their ideas freely.

As for our discussion, who was faster in reality, the P51D or the Dora 9, the real data show that the latter. 590km/h for P51D and 612km/h for Dora 9. I repeat.. real life data.

 

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[Hiromachi]

Which real life data if I may ? I'm not as familiar with Dora, so I wont be picking data on that one, but P-51 performance is modeled after this report:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/p51d-15342.html

I have replicated a military power run on deck as that eliminates all the variables and need to recalculate indicated and true air speed. At 3000 RPM, 61" MAP, coolant flaps auto and ICAO Standard Atmosphere aircraft reaches 363-364 mph on deck. Which matches real life data perfectly.

Max speed that could be achieved at 67" MAP (War Emergency Power) was 375 mph. I have not tested that, if I find time today I can try. But based on the rule of thumb I'm expecting it to turn out to be the same as in given document.

 

And btw. the above real life data give P-51D 603.5 km/h as thats to what 375 mph translates to. So yes, D-9 could've been faster by less than 10 km/h. But those 10 km/h can easily be mitigated by ones ability or inability to fly aircraft. Its easier to fly P-51D clean due to ability to trim all three control surfaces. Kurt Tank did not provide that for Dora (or Anton) which makes flying a bit harder.

[grafspee]

iirc, Yo-yo said that after radial engines get full modeling = after P-47, ED will give some love to inline engines, but what exactly this mean i don't know.

So right now, i assume that no changes have been done to inline engines so far recently.

Edited May 3, 2020 by grafspee

[msalama]

pueril epitets like 'whinners'

 

:huh: :megalol: Look who's talking. Remember these?

 

"The fan boys are quiet now.. They're just in the denial phase. It's ok."

"Lookie here triggered boy!"

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all

 

please stop the bickering and the name calling, there is no need for it.

 

thanks

[Hobel]

And btw. the above real life data give P-51D 603.5 km/h as thats to what 375 mph translates to. .

 

Max speed that could be achieved at 67" MAP (War Emergency Power) was 375 mph. I have not tested that, if I find time today I can try. But based on the rule of thumb I'm expecting it to turn out to be the same as in given document.

It should also not be forgotten that it was tested with bomb racks(IRL)

 

 

 

Here is a test with a clean P51

https://streamable.com/biozds

 

 

 

I didn't call anyone a whiner, it's the other way around. This is a forum where people can express their ideas freely.

As for our discussion, who was faster in reality, the P51D or the Dora 9, the real data show that the latter. 590km/h for P51D and 612km/h for Dora 9. I repeat.. real life data.

 

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how do you come up with 590kmh?

 

 

the link clearly shows something else.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Hobel

[Hiromachi]

It should also not be forgotten that it was tested with bomb racks

 

how do you come up with 590kmh?

 

the link clearly shows something else.

 

I think racks are present in game by default and factored into aircraft drag.

[Snapage]

You know amazingme, being nice to other people doesnt cost you anything but it sure makes you look better ;)

 

Yoyo stated some time ago that there will be overhaul to engine thermodynamics. I think its best to ask him if he knows anything about it.

 

You know msalama, being nice to other people doesnt cost you anything but it sure makes you look better ;)

 

Fixed it for you. :)

 

Buy seriously msalama has been nothing but a troll in this thread.

[Snapage]

Hi all

 

please stop the bickering and the name calling, there is no need for it.

 

thanks

 

Easy solution would be to ban msamala. Then this thread would be civil. All he has done is insult people and add nothing to the conversation.

[msalama]

to ban msamala

 

Sent you a PM. Could air my thoughts here as well, but unlike some, I'm not keen on accusing people in public.

[grafspee]

Remember when, spitfire with bombs racks was much faster then w/o bomb racks?

We can expect anything here.

[Aluminum Donkey]

Once, when i was flying p-51.

I got shot by k-4 or fw190 cant remember now, but my boost regulator was damaged, in the way that i could boost way over 67" it was way over 75". My engine was OK with that, only thing was that i could maintain over 400mph at SL :) chase party gave up quickly :)

 

You're lucky, the only thing I ever get shot out is the radiator. Either that or the prop governor, or lose some control surfaces, or a whole wingtip. Never anything "fun" like a boost regulator failure! :)

 

AD

[Brigg]

Remember when, spitfire with bombs racks was much faster then w/o bomb racks?

We can expect anything here.

 

:lol:

[Brigg]

Doing nearly 800kph and a mustang still runs me down on the deck. we started with pretty much same energy state as well

Edited May 8, 2020 by Brigg

[amazingme]

Doing nearly 800kph and a mustang still runs me down on the deck. we started with pretty much same energy state as well

Do you remember the time when P51 was close to the real thing in terms of performance, could not do anything against both K4 and Dora 9, and no one would fly it? Pepperidge farm remembers. But now.. how the turntables. Insert the proper memes here.

 

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[Whisper]

Doing nearly 800kph and a mustang still runs me down on the deck. we started with pretty much same energy state as well

 

800kph is the result of a dive, it's not a sustainable max speed. I don't know the exact situation, but that doesn't seem unrealistic at all that a P51 keeps up in these situtations, provided it didn't last from Ouistreham to Evreux :) AFAIK Mustang handles dives better, and trying to follow one in a high altitude dive is foolish. As well, a dive is not a byebye card against them. It works against Spits, not Mustangs.

[amazingme]

800kph is the result of a dive, it's not a sustainable max speed. I don't know the exact situation, but that doesn't seem unrealistic at all that a P51 keeps up in these situtations, provided it didn't last from Ouistreham to Evreux :) AFAIK Mustang handles dives better, and trying to follow one in a high altitude dive is foolish. As well, a dive is not a byebye card against them. It works against Spits, not Mustangs.

 

Yeah.. but it shouldn't, both in DCS and in real life. All sort of problems will arise from those speeds, especially on the Mustang.

[iFoxRomeo]

Yeah.. but it shouldn't, both in DCS and in real life. All sort of problems will arise from those speeds, especially on the Mustang.

The Mustang in DCS seems to be well recreated.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/mustangtest.html

 

 

 

800km/h is 497mph. 8mph below Mustangs max speed. Still okay.

 

 

 

Then:

Quote: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190d9test.html

 

 

 

Donald Caldwell wrote of the FW 190 D-9’s operational debut in his The JG 26 War Diary Volume Two 1943-1945 (pages 388 – 399):

...

26 December: The biggest news the returning pilots had for their comrades was the Mustang’s superiority in speed and acceleration to their Dora 9s.

...

 

You can check the speed charts for yourself.

 

 

 

Fox

[amazingme]

The Mustang in DCS seems to be well recreated.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/mustangtest.html

 

 

 

800km/h is 497mph. 8mph below Mustangs max speed. Still okay.

 

 

 

Then:

Quote: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190d9test.html

 

 

 

Donald Caldwell wrote of the FW 190 D-9’s operational debut in his The JG 26 War Diary Volume Two 1943-1945 (pages 388 – 399):

...

26 December: The biggest news the returning pilots had for their comrades was the Mustang’s superiority in speed and acceleration to their Dora 9s.

...

 

You can check the speed charts for yourself.

 

 

 

Fox

In level flight at sea level D9 is ~10kph faster than the Mustang. It all depends on how heavy they are but the Mustang section profile is more draggy especially at high speeds..

 

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[Brigg]

800kph is the result of a dive, it's not a sustainable max speed. I don't know the exact situation, but that doesn't seem unrealistic at all that a P51 keeps up in these situtations, provided it didn't last from Ouistreham to Evreux :) AFAIK Mustang handles dives better, and trying to follow one in a high altitude dive is foolish. As well, a dive is not a byebye card against them. It works against Spits, not Mustangs.

 

I know that speed is the result of the dive and not sustainable. But like said in previous posts in, RL the dora is 10kph faster than the mustang. i left him for dead and pulled out a hefty lead and iwas sustaining that 800 pretty well with mw50, good trim and flying the ball but he caught me as if i was standing still. i sould of atleast made it to homeplate before he could or should of caught me.l

[iFoxRomeo]

In level flight at sea level D9 is ~10kph faster than the Mustang. It all depends on how heavy they are but the Mustang section profile is more draggy especially at high speeds..

 

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So you say that the Mustang with 603km/h and 1630hp/67in. at SL is draggier than a D9 that reaches just 3-9km/h more, and 2100hp at SL.

D9 ~4300kg and Mustang ~ 4430kg takeoff weight.

Mkay....

[Snapage]

I know that speed is the result of the dive and not sustainable. But like said in previous posts in, RL the dora is 10kph faster than the mustang. i left him for dead and pulled out a hefty lead and iwas sustaining that 800 pretty well with mw50, good trim and flying the ball but he caught me as if i was standing still. i sould of atleast made it to homeplate before he could or should of caught me.l

 

Could be the result of an engine cooling problem. It's possible your engine randomly overheated which is something that seems to happen to me when I fly it. There is no indication that the engine is damaged except for slower top speed.

[Hummingbird]

In level flight at sea level D9 is ~10kph faster than the Mustang. It all depends on how heavy they are but the Mustang section profile is more draggy especially at high speeds..

 

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Donald Caldwell is not the most trustworthy of sources...

 

He has presented a lot of misinformation disputed by other books and actual 190 pilots. Like for example that the A8 turned better than the D9, where'as in reality the reverse is true, the D9 being both lighter, less draggy and more powerful engine wise.