CBenson89 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 What do people think? I know there are a ton of dedicated pilots but there are also lots of causal players. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Difficult to put a percentage on it, but I'd say the majority of those who fly in multi-player. Those who exclusively fly single player might struggle or outright avoid IFR since in SP campaigns it's hardly ever needed: there's no incentive to get good at it, and no penalty for avoiding it. Multiplayer is a different animal altogether... Spoiler Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Gigabyte RX6900XT | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | HP Reverb G2 Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2+3 base / CM2 x2 grip with 200 mm S-curve extension + CM3 throttle + CP2/3 + FSSB R3L + VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS "HIGH" preset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glide Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.J.S Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Unknown. Personally, i can with no problems on the F-14, F-15 and F-18, F-16 however never wants to play ball! Think its probably to do with having that huge pipe over and behind me. Alien desktop PC, Intel i7-8700 CPU@3.20GHz 6 Core, Nvidia GTX 1070, 16GB RAM. TM Warthog stick and Throttles. Saitek ProFlight pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I can top off a Viper or an A10C in one bite (usually) May suffer the odd disco now and again. I’m 100% Multi-Player [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use. www.crosswindimages.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I can do the A-10C, Hornet and M-2000C It’s a more or less transferable skill i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaz Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I don't know about the overall percentage, but can state that I'm able to refuel the Harrier, Hornet, and Viper. After all these years I still can't do the A-10, as I get too fixated on the boom instead of the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Can, but it is not important to me. Did it, got the t-shirt, off to do things that are more fun. P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozler Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I play mostly single player and occasional multiplayer with 2 or 3 friends on some custom missions and campaigns we have designed, some of which require air-to-air refueling. I am able to refuel the F-18 and F-16 day or night, moon, no moon under the correct conditions (being considerations for speed and altitude the event occurs at). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearmandriver Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 The AAR implementation in DCS is one of my favorite things about it. It wouldn't bother me if they rolled out an "easy mode" where you just had to fly in semi-close formation with the tanker or something, as long as they keep the normal mode too. I really enjoy plugging the basket with the Hornet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted September 5, 2020 Add me to the list of people who suck at A2A refuelling, I switch between so many airframes its difficult to stay proficient in all. that's my excuse and I am sticking to it :) Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glide Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Done it lots in the F-16. Don't do it at all right now because my missions are smallish. I am sure to be rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westr Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Yes I can, all I think but I find harrier & F15 hardest, a long extension to my warthog helped massively with this. RYZEN 7 3700X Running at 4.35 GHz NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti 32gb DDR4 RAM @3200 MHz Oculus CV1 NvME 970 EVO TM Warthog Stick & Throttle plus 11" extension. VKB T-Rudder MKIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_sukebe Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Run a poll is the easiest way, but FYI, yes I can, and in several airframes, F18, Harrier, Mirage. Crap in the F16 though. System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse. Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjay22 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Still getting to grips with the A10c, trying to lengthen the duration that I'm connected but its a difficult task... Trying to ignore the refuel boom is hard :cry: Hardware - Windows 10 Pro, Intel i9 11900kf stock, DeepCool LE520 water cooled, Gigabyte Z590 Gaming X, 64gb DDR4 3200, Gigabyte Aorus Master RTX 3070 TI 8gb, 480gb SSD & 500gb M.2 SSD for DCS World, HP Reverb G1 VR headset, Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas, throttle & TFRP Pedals. Modules - A10C II, AH64D, BS3, C101, F5E, F15E, F16C, F/A18C, L-39, M2000C, MI24P, P47D, Supercarrier Maps - Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria, Sinai, The Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=4c=Nikola Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Just keep in mind that without decent equipment it might be impossible to do AAR, so it's not necessarily about pilot skills. Do not expect fairness. The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 AAR requires practice, not special hardware. As long as your joystick isn’t broken or defective it’s possible. It just takes time to learn. i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=4c=Nikola Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 (edited) AAR requires practice, not special hardware. As long as your joystick isn’t broken or defective it’s possible. It just takes time to learn. I disagree. With old non-defective joystick I was unable to aar after god know how many hours of practice. When I bought new joystick, I've got it in 5 minutes. Simply, some mechanisms are incapable of producing fine and precise motion near center of joystick. Additionally, throttle range plays big role. Imagine doing F-16 aar with throttle slider that have 2cm of range. Impossible. Edited September 6, 2020 by =4c=Nikola Do not expect fairness. The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streakeagle Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 AAR requires practice, not special hardware. As long as your joystick isn’t broken or defective it’s possible. It just takes time to learn. The limitations of PC simulation and the hardware make it much harder than reality. People with better hardware won't need as much practice because they won't need the touch of a brain surgeon or the reflexes of a pro race car driver to move their joystick just the right fraction. When you watch in-cockpit videos of real pilots taking off, landing, formation flying, etc. you can see them making frequent corrections that are fairly large movements. If I made those movements in DCS World, my aircraft would oscillate quite a bit. With a stick extension and/or good axis curve maps, the skill level required lowers quite a bit. I flew for years with Saitek sticks: X-36 USB, X-45, X-52 Pro. I also flew with the Warthog for awhile. Now I primarily fly with the VKB Gunfighter but also have the Winwing stick. The hardware makes a difference: No noise spikes, no "sticktion", longer throw ranges, and I don't ever use custom curves, just flat linear response with no deadbands. The in-game stick goes exactly where I want it to. I can move the VKB and Winwing sticks exactly one step with little difficulty, which is like breathing on the stick. Don't tell me hardware doesn't make a difference. You can see it on these forums. There are some people who could never quite refuel successfully, but after getting better hardware, found that it was a lot easier. Everyone focuses on the stick, but the throttle is equally important, which shows up in carrier landings as well as refueling. But no matter how good the hardware is, the task is still somewhat more difficult in a PC sim than reality, so practice is still a great idea. VR changes things. I can fly helicopters, land on carriers, and maintain situational awareness in violent rolling dogfights with multiple aircraft far better in VR than with TrackIR. I haven't done any refueling offline or online since I got VR, but I am almost certain that the improved sense of position and relative movement that I get in VR will make refueling a little easier, too. So, again, the hardware is a significant factor. It is just a matter of how much hardware matters versus practice, which will vary with the natural aptitude of individuals. Just as in real life, some people will be good no matter what they do and some will struggle no matter what they do while the rest of us have to work at it to get the job done. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I disagree. With old non-defective joystick I was unable to aar after god know how many hours of practice. When I bought new joystick, I've got it in 5 minutes. Simply, some mechanisms are incapable of producing fine and precise motion near center of joystick. Additionally, throttle range plays big role. Imagine doing F-16 aar with throttle slider that have 2cm of range. Impossible. Ok fair enough. Yes you need a better throttle than the little flippy switch on a Logitech. i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomTOTEN Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) I disagree. And I disagree with you! Simply, some mechanisms are incapable of producing fine and precise motion near center of joystick. Additionally, throttle range plays big role. Imagine doing F-16 aar with throttle slider that have 2cm of range. Impossible. Laughing with my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. :joystick: The F-16 has FLCS, the autopilot is always on in that jet. How could it be any easier? Your hardware argument has no basis. Yes you need a better throttle than the little flippy switch on a Logitech. All day. Every day. Twice on Sunday. Edited September 6, 2020 by randomTOTEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 All day. Every day. Twice on Sunday. :thumbup: i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=4c=Nikola Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 And I disagree with you! Laughing with my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. :joystick: The F-16 has FLCS, the autopilot is always on in that jet. How could it be any easier? Your hardware argument has no basis. All day. Every day. Twice on Sunday. Good luck. Do not expect fairness. The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearmandriver Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I came to DCS several months ago after flying the Superbug for quite a while on the old MS sim, with a crappy 5 year old $50 Thrustmaster HOTAS (I don't even remember the model). I was able to AAR after a couple practice session, but it was a chore. When I upgraded to a Warthog stick and throttle, I was astonished at how much easier this task got. What I realized after switching back and forth a few times was that the cheap old HOTAS had an unpredictable dead zone in all axes. EG, you could make a stick deflection - say to the left - and experience a 1/16in dead zone... then recenter the stick and deflect it to the left again, and experience maybe a 1/8in dead zone. Different every time, so any task that requires fine control movements was a challenge. With the Warthog (using zero curves or deadzone in the settings), it feels very natural. I'm not saying I plug on the first try *every* time, but when I don't I can tell it's my fault lol. I'm coming from years of RW formation and jet flying experience (though never both at the same time) so I'm sure I was leaning on that a lot to accomplish refueling at all, with the old stick. It's not fair to say that the solution to AAR refueling challenges is as simple as spending more money... but I'd say there is a baseline level of predictable precision in your control system that is, if strictly not required, certainly a massive help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I disagree. With old non-defective joystick I was unable to aar after god know how many hours of practice. When I bought new joystick, I've got it in 5 minutes. This is funny, if you take what you wrote literally. You mean to say you learned to AAR in 5 minutes? Really?! Or do you think those “many hours of practice” had as much or more to do with getting it? You still needed many hours of practice, not just a new stick. i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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