Who will win the race between the Mi-24 and the OH-58?

[Flatfoot78]

In this race we can only win guys

 

[Fri13]

On 12/10/2020 at 2:20 PM, Donglr said:

"The Mi-24P and Mi-24V have four underwing pylons for up to 12 anti-tank missiles." https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/hind/

 

Which is weird in its own way, as 12 missiles over four pylons makes 3 missiles/pylon And also contrary to

"9M114 Shturm (NATO: AT-6 Spiral) anti-tank missile, 2 missiles on each wingtip or outer hardpoint." (4*2=8) https://weaponsystems.net/system/300-Mil+Mi-24P

 

Likely misunderstanding as there is a six missile launcher for one hardpoint, so two hardpoints gives 12 missiles.

Or you have 2 + 4 on each wing, making it 12 in total.

[Iron Sights]

I think the OH-58 will hit first. I’ve seen a couple videos with them flying it in DCS, but I could be wrong. Testing could still be behind.

[kotor633]

In the meantime, I don't care which module appears first. What is important is the result at the end. And, for me as a single player, how well can I operate the respective module.

[Morrov]

10 hours ago, Iron Sights said:

I think the OH-58 will hit first. I’ve seen a couple videos with them flying it in DCS, but I could be wrong. Testing could still be behind.

There has been a whole video of the Mi-24 in flight over Syria.

They've also shown it with some weapon systems on and firing rockets in a recent livestream, though we have no idea how much is left to do behind the scenes.

[Fri13]

5 hours ago, Morrov said:

There has been a whole video of the Mi-24 in flight over Syria.

They've also shown it with some weapon systems on and firing rockets in a recent livestream, though we have no idea how much is left to do behind the scenes.

 

If Polychop is aiming with OH-58 to skip the Early Access and provide feature completed module out of the bag, then it takes further to get it polished. Then they just need to fix bugs and work something smaller things if everything has gone well with SME's and all....

 

It is little annoying for me as I like to take one module at the time for a use, learning and training and all. And now I am flying AV-8B for this month and soon we get four helicopters in coming months.

 

So timewise it is for me a four new modules and not enough time

 

Why it would be nice to have little more pacing between them.

 

Maybe tomorrow™ the OH-58 drops out and we can all have ruined work week

 

Damn...

 

 

[unknown]

Wasn't there some "incident" last year with a change to DCS that screwed something major with the OH-58? I just can remember that Polychop said something like "pushed back for undefined time"(no literal quote!). I don't follow the OH-58 development so it could be just something that looked like a major problem but in the end it was solved very quickly. So i would think MI-24, OH-58, AH-64 will be the "order" but i'm only interested in 2 of them and they will be released in the order MI-24, AH-64.(as far as we know right now  )

[flo57100]

Whoever will win the race, it looks like 2021 will be the Year of the Helicopter on DCS.

However, in my opinion, 2 things to be fixed so we can fully enjoy helicopters in DCS:

- Please ED, fix the AI, so there are no more death snipers. I mean, when facing infantry with the Mi-8, one, ONE bullet hit from infantry ends up with main hydraulic failure, and crash 2 minutes later. So, imagine what it will be in the OH-58 when flying low and dropping smoke grenades like real life videos we can watch on youtube. And, REALLY, who will proudly stand up, AK in the hand, facing a attack helicopter flying right on you, vomiting full baskets of rockets and gun shells (that's for the Mi-24 ) ? Normal (real) reaction would be to hide and save your skin (or try to).

- And speaking of rockets, may be it is time to change the damages done by rockets. I mean, I already saw a full convoy of vehicles (And I'm talking of regular trucks, not armored vehicles) still intact, even if the whole road is scattered of craters made by salvo of high explosive rockets. It feels like the rocket have to land pinpoint on the vehicle to destroy it

Anyway, can't wait for new choppers releases

[Northstar98]

37 minutes ago, flo57100 said:

- And speaking of rockets, may be it is time to change the damages done by rockets. I mean, I already saw a full convoy of vehicles (And I'm talking of regular trucks, not armored vehicles) still intact, even if the whole road is scattered of craters made by salvo of high explosive rockets. It feels like the rocket have to land pinpoint on the vehicle to destroy it

 

This is probably down to the fact that DCS doesn't model fragmentation (from looking at the scripts they only boost the explosive mass in the warhead to compensate, in certain A/A missiles the warhead is made 5x larger than it actually is to get the desired effects). As for warheads, it doesn't model anything past HE, kinetic penetrating, smoke and illumination flare. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Northstar98

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 12/25/2020 at 12:21 AM, Rogue Trooper said:

Please lets get some European know how into this heavy weight equation..

Spreaking of heavy weight: I wouldn't mind a Merlin (or H225M Caracal) to give BLUFOR an Mi-8 equivalent

[Rogue Trooper]

31 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Spreaking of heavy weight: I wouldn't mind a Merlin (or H225M Caracal) to give BLUFOR an Mi-8 equivalent

Yeah I would love a Merlin. 

I would need low settings for my SimShaker Jetseat as these choppers are super smooth and vibration free.

[Rogue Trooper]

I also think every thing has been pushed back for a big ED roll out to the core engine.

or should I say I hope.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[tusler]

I plan to buy all the helo's as they are released, I just love flying around for CSAR or fun and I really enjoy the difference in flight models between them.

I remember back when Gunship first came out and then Janes, later Gunship 2 I would've paid anything back then for a helo with FM as good as the Gazelle, and nowadays we have so much great stuff to pick from we are spoiled and picky LoL

[Fury_007]

On 1/29/2021 at 11:24 AM, flo57100 said:

Whoever will win the race, it looks like 2021 will be the Year of the Helicopter on DCS.

However, in my opinion, 2 things to be fixed so we can fully enjoy helicopters in DCS:

- Please ED, fix the AI, so there are no more death snipers. I mean, when facing infantry with the Mi-8, one, ONE bullet hit from infantry ends up with main hydraulic failure, and crash 2 minutes later. So, imagine what it will be in the OH-58 when flying low and dropping smoke grenades like real life videos we can watch on youtube. And, REALLY, who will proudly stand up, AK in the hand, facing a attack helicopter flying right on you, vomiting full baskets of rockets and gun shells (that's for the Mi-24 ) ? Normal (real) reaction would be to hide and save your skin (or try to).

- And speaking of rockets, may be it is time to change the damages done by rockets. I mean, I already saw a full convoy of vehicles (And I'm talking of regular trucks, not armored vehicles) still intact, even if the whole road is scattered of craters made by salvo of high explosive rockets. It feels like the rocket have to land pinpoint on the vehicle to destroy it

Anyway, can't wait for new choppers releases

 

I know it's quite off topic for the release of these two modules, but you know what I would like to see? Maybe if ED could program suppression or the enemy will stop shooting to run for cover if they see an aircraft flying towards or shooting at them.

[DeTesla]

On 1/30/2021 at 6:00 PM, tusler said:

I plan to buy all the helo's as they are released, I just love flying around for CSAR or fun and I really enjoy the difference in flight models between them.

I remember back when Gunship first came out and then Janes, later Gunship 2 I would've paid anything back then for a helo with FM as good as the Gazelle, and nowadays we have so much great stuff to pick from we are spoiled and picky LoL

'' helo with FM as good as the Gazelle''

please...

[Peter5on]

On 1/30/2021 at 5:00 PM, tusler said:

helo with FM as good as the Gazelle

Have you watched those videos below? How can you even compare Eagle Dynamics experience vs Polychop where ED have alredy done Ka-50, Huey, Mi-8, and now they making next 2 helicopters? Mi-8 and Mi-24 are in real simulators out there teaching real pilots. How can you ever think about buying something else than Mi-24. Of course no one is perfect even ED had to tune flight model of Huey but they got it right. Even if you are not a pilot but when you look from external view that heli is behaving like real thing. While gazelle looks like is done in some part time. Sorry to say but i think most of third party shouldn't do flight models. It seams to hard to make, cos others 3rd party struggle as well. How many times Mig-21 had different flight models? Flight simulators are about simulating flying if you cant simulate it properly i think you should quit. Sorry for harsh word but that's how world works, you doing bad job there is someone else who can do it better. I personally own every heli module except gazelle but I've heard from friends who have it that's UFO. I hope they will make it better with Kiowa but i doubt it, they cant fix it for so long why something is going to change?

 

[Lucas_From_Hell]

13 minutes ago, Peter5on said:

I hope they will make it better with Kiowa but i doubt it, they cant fix it for so long why something is going to change?

Manpower, quite simply. They only have one person looking after flight models. This person is currently assigned to creating the Kiowa flight model. They cannot, realistically, work on both at the same time. They have acknowledged that the Gazelle flight model is not up to their standards, but to a point where the framework it was done in isn't satisfactory enough, thus the decision to create a flight model base from zero with the Kiowa then use the lessons and techniques learned there to re-do the Gazelle.

 

DCS has some of the best flight models available, both from ED and third parties. Yes, some of them have had to be revised multiple times, but it would be silly to fault third parties for improving their work when they have an opportunity to at no added cost for us. Plenty of ED modules have also had flight model revisions and reworks, it's a complex simulator with complex flight dynamics, tweaks are to be expected.

[Sabre_Ewan]

@Peter5on I think you missed the tone of his message. He didn't say that the gazelle flight model is better than those by ED. He said that it's better than the flight model of a decades-old game, and that in those days we couldn't even imagine a flight model as good as the ones in DCS.

[MAXsenna]

@Peter5on I think you missed the tone of his message. He didn't say that the gazelle flight model is better than those by ED. He said that it's better than the flight model of a decades-old game, and that in those days we couldn't even imagine a flight model as good as the ones in DCS.

Don't worry. He heard it from his friends.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[SmukY]

Well, it seems AH-64D will come before Mi-24P Ah, we'll have to wait a little more I suppose?

[Razorback]

12 hours ago, SmukY said:

Well, it seems AH-64D will come before Mi-24P Ah, we'll have to wait a little more I suppose?

All is subject to change but currently, and as announced by ED, the Mi-24 module will normally come first (Q2 2021) and the Apache afterwards.

The pre-order for the Apache was announced for Feb 21, it's now delayed till May 21...so I guess that the EA will also be delayed by at least 3 months.
As reminder, it seems that there will be no EA for the Hind.

[Harlikwin]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:26 AM, Razorback said:

All is subject to change but currently, and as announced by ED, the Mi-24 module will normally come first (Q2 2021) and the Apache afterwards.

The pre-order for the Apache was announced for Feb 21, it's now delayed till May 21...so I guess that the EA will also be delayed by at least 3 months.
As reminder, it seems that there will be no EA for the Hind.

 

Not so sure on that no EA for the hind. They said some weapons would "come later" which suggests that there will be an EA period. That being said it looks like they want to deliver the EA version with a solid set of features/functionality. Which given the whole Viper release "fiasco" I can't really blame them for.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

They have more or less confirmed that there will still be an early access period, simply because, quoting, having 10.000 testers penning reports is much faster and efficient than 10.

[Harlikwin]

On 1/2/2021 at 6:16 PM, Flatfoot78 said:

In this race we can only win guys

 

 

Well, you say that... 

 

Welcome with your first post.

 

[Razorback]

9 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Not so sure on that no EA for the hind. They said some weapons would "come later" which suggests that there will be an EA period. That being said it looks like they want to deliver the EA version with a solid set of features/functionality. Which given the whole Viper release "fiasco" I can't really blame them for.

You right, my mistake !
you have to replace no EA for the Hind by no pre-order for the Hind !