Heatblur F-4 Phantom

[captain_dalan]

1 hour ago, Top Jockey said:

 

Regarding the bold I understand the idea, but I don't know if its logic would be very pratical / effective in real combat situations.

As in the early F-4 Phantom II, the RIO's cockpit is even more overfilled with instrument panels than the pilot's cockpit... leaving the RIO with almost zero forward visibility even at head height.

So I imagine the RIO would be handicaped (versus the Pilot), when trying to acquire a target with the Helmet Sight, both in field of view and coordination / reaction time, as it would loose sight of the target more frequently.

 

 

 

 

Largely my sentiment as well. 

[Heatloss]

Aside from the practical issues of the RIO not being able to see past the giant panel in front of him, there was no VTAS helmet plug-in in the backseat, and I can reasonably assume that means no IR receivers as well. It was normally the job of the RIO to keep eyes on the target at all times during a dogfight, and tell the pilot where the target was. The pilot would split his focus between energy management and getting into a firing envelope.

 

At least, that's my understanding.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Heatloss

[LanceCriminal86]

If you check out the Tomcats that tested VTAS there were sensors in the back seat as well. Of course now I can't find the links but it was a Farris painted one that had the AIMVAL/ACEVAL or maybe VX-4 officers posing next to it. It may be that part of the testing was to see if the RIO being able to acquire/maintain the lock would give an edge.

[Quid]

On 10/14/2021 at 5:42 PM, LanceCriminal86 said:

If you check out the Tomcats that tested VTAS there were sensors in the back seat as well. Of course now I can't find the links but it was a Farris painted one that had the AIMVAL/ACEVAL or maybe VX-4 officers posing next to it. It may be that part of the testing was to see if the RIO being able to acquire/maintain the lock would give an edge.

You are correct.  Both "Tomcat Alley" and "Hoser Here, Shoot!" have pictures of the ACEVAL/AIMVAL F-14s with VTAS installed for both front and back seat.  Tomcat Alley shows them on pg. 74 and 75, Hoser here has one on the back cover and the same shot in black and white on pg 92.  I recall Hoser mentioning something about the RIO using it during testing, but it was on Tomcat-Sunset years ago so I can't point to a source anymore on that.

[Bremspropeller]

Navy Phantoms wolololo!

This would give us the opportunity of simulating large parts of any Air Wing from the late 60s through to the 2000s with all the other naval airplanes already out and in the pipeline:

- the Tomcat

- the Hornet

- the mod A-4E

- the A-6E

- the A-7E

 

Just saying and trying to keep the hype afloat

 

By the way, here's two airplanes that would make tremendous additional AI assets:

 

[WinterH]

15 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Navy Phantoms wolololo!

Eww... E or bust. Navals would be cool only in addition to the Phantom that matters! :)) Otherwise, no Phantom is better than naval only

[Dauntless]

E 

[Top Jockey]

The E variant is always interesting (for me essentially because of its internal M61 gun), but my favourites would be also:

- US Navy variants;

- Royal Navy F-4K Phantom FG.1 - this:

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/285899-phantom-fg1-f-4k/page/2/#comment-4823664

 

[Torbernite]

Heard from a 3rd party member/tester/localizer's leaking that an F-4 with unconfirmed subtype is already being worked on by a 3rd party and might be announced soon.

By now Deka has a unknown project but obviously they are not likely to make a phantom and most probably haven't start their own project yet. 

Razbam has a mysterious project in their QA at the beginning of the year, but maybe referring to the BO-105 or some helicopter else (I might have seen some word or model about this but can't recall it).

The last one is HB. I can't remember, are they said to have another unannounced project besides A-6 and typhoon? If so, that's almost it.

Anyway, we should be hearing that soon.

[WinterH]

8 hours ago, Torbernite said:

Heard from a 3rd party member/tester/localizer's leaking that an F-4 with unconfirmed subtype is already being worked on by a 3rd party and might be announced soon.

Well no leak is needed for that one, as an ED staff interview in Russian was published on youtube recently, and Kate said something like that. (Kate being ED COO)

8 hours ago, Torbernite said:

The last one is HB. I can't remember, are they said to have another unannounced project besides A-6 and typhoon? If so, that's almost it.

Yes, they have a public roadmap of sorts on trello actually. They have also commented that mystery module will likely release before Typhoon, or at least before A-6, A-6 being last in the line for now. Thus far Heatblur seems by far the most likely candidate. Which I would normally be very, very happy for, just not in case of F-4 because I'm afraid they'll go and make a naval one istead of F-4E -_-

As for the Deka and Razbam, well, they are possible candidates too, but I frankly don't think they are nearly as likely. Deka even said their next module may perhaps be western aircraft too.

[SouthernCross]

11 hours ago, Torbernite said:

Heard from a 3rd party member/tester/localizer's leaking that an F-4 with unconfirmed subtype is already being worked on by a 3rd party and might be announced soon.

By now Deka has a unknown project but obviously they are not likely to make a phantom and most probably haven't start their own project yet. 

Razbam has a mysterious project in their QA at the beginning of the year, but maybe referring to the BO-105 or some helicopter else (I might have seen some word or model about this but can't recall it).

The last one is HB. I can't remember, are they said to have another unannounced project besides A-6 and typhoon? If so, that's almost it.

Anyway, we should be hearing that soon.

Subtype or subtypes?

Or is that unconfirmed too?

[Torbernite]

3分钟前，SouthernCross说：

Subtype or subtypes?

Or is that unconfirmed too?

I know nothing more than you, I haven't even seen the recent interview. I think if it's from HB we may expect one with plural subtypes like the two tomcats, but hard if from someone else.

[Bananabrai]

On 12/6/2021 at 1:49 PM, Torbernite said:

I know nothing more than you, I haven't even seen the recent interview. I think if it's from HB we may expect one with plural subtypes like the two tomcats, but hard if from someone else.

I remember them saying they do not want to do somehting like the Tomcat (2+ verisons/subtypes in one module) any more, because it is such a big effort.

I mean I could totally understand it,  the F-14A-GR95 (was it that?) is not even out yet. The B was released to early access when, was it 3 years ago?

[Baco]

The phantom was born a Naval plane, making one not Carrier Capable would be a shame. I even would accept an E BUT that can operate from carriers anyway. making it a Hybrid.

 

[Andrew8604]

It'll be a Navy Phantom, alright...the RF-4B.    Let the cameras be its weapons.  Wouldn't that be a riot?  (probably a veritable forum riot, ha ha)

But I agree.  The Phantom will be one of those types that needs two versions.  The E first, and then the J for carrier work.

[Southernbear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtmGCYeipas

Well they teased an F-4E gunsight....which only makes sense since BilSimTek's previous work from 2013-2015 was for an F-4E Block 53 with agile eagle slats and AGM-65s, makes no sense not to use their previous work. I just hope ED goes along with what they said in an interview about 6 months back and makes multiple variants. The F-4 pics are from when BilSimTek left off but unfortunately their website has been removed from the web so finding them can be a little bit trickier. 

[Heatloss]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:18 PM, Southernbear said:

Well they teased an F-4E gunsight...

Here's something unexpected to most people in this thread. That gunsight can mean any of four variants, not including the British Phantoms. F-4D, F-4E, and as far as I can tell, AWG-10A equipped F-4J, or F-4S.

[QuiGon]

8 hours ago, Heatloss said:

Here's something unexpected to most people in this thread. That gunsight can mean any of four variants, not including the British Phantoms. F-4D, F-4E, and as far as I can tell, AWG-10A equipped F-4J, or F-4S.

Also F-4F if I'm not mistaken.

[TLTeo]

I think an F-4F is too niche compared to all other variants to be considered seriously. An F-4E with no Sparrows allowed (which we can do with the ME) would be a perfectly good stand in for it anyway.

It's interesting to know the gunsight is the same for the updated naval jets though, since a couple of years ago Nick Grey said whoever did the Phantom should try to do multiple variants.

Edited December 27, 2021 by TLTeo

[QuiGon]

14 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

I think an F-4F is too niche compared to all other variants to be considered seriously. An F-4E with no Sparrows allowed (which we can do with the ME) would be a perfectly good stand in for it anyway.

I totally agree. I just wanted to list it for the sake of completeness.

[Heatloss]

On 12/27/2021 at 6:49 AM, QuiGon said:

I totally agree. I just wanted to list it for the sake of completeness.

That's my bad. I kinda forgot the F-4F exists...

[captain_dalan]

After all these years i still find it hard to understand why people would chose to fly a plane that needs over a mile of runway to land! 

[QuiGon]

15 hours ago, Heatloss said:

That's my bad. I kinda forgot the F-4F exists...

Haha, I really can't blame you for that!

[G.J.S]

12 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

After all these years i still find it hard to understand why people would chose to fly a plane that needs over a mile of runway to land! 

That amount of runway is perfect to allow all the jocks of “other” machines to see what a legend looks like . . . 
That was our excuse anyway

[captain_dalan]

6 hours ago, G.J.S said:

That amount of runway is perfect to allow all the jocks of “other” machines to see what a legend looks like . . . 
That was our excuse anyway

Hey, didn't you guys fly navy versions!?