reported Autopilot sways off course

[Mivina]

This has been a pain in my ass ever since I bought the module and this is why I don't use autopilot and have to fly 20 minute flights myself. When you set your autopilot to level flight it doesn't manage to stay on course. It seems that it either doesn't apply rudder at all or applies it not enough and the helicopter goes into a slight right turn. I see the mechanic as giving controls to the second pilot, so I would assume he is capable of looking at the instruments and staying aligned with the right numbers. Also, the transition to autopilot seems a little bit too agressive. Every time i'm afraid of the rotor jumping off from snaplike collective movement or engine stalling from low rpm.

[admiki]

It was not intended to be an autopilot that will fly for you. It was more of a momentary help, while you look at the map, or change frequency. I know about this tendeny, so I go left of required heading before giving him control. It works for quick trip to the loo or to get some snack

[Volator]

Agree, the AP cheat really needs some fine-tuning. It's annoying that it can't maintain a heading.

[Mivina]

10.07.2021 в 15:26, admiki сказал:

It was not intended to be an autopilot that will fly for you. It was more of a momentary help, while you look at the map, or change frequency. I know about this tendeny, so I go left of required heading before giving him control. It works for quick trip to the loo or to get some snack

I don't know what it was intended for, but right now it looks exactly like a bug. If it was momentary, they could make it disconnect after a certain time. It can precisely fly at an altitude but can't follow a number on the compass

P.S. Expecting a 2-pilot helicopter to have a fully functional autopilot in the absence of a second player is fine by me. Taking into account that this helicopter is so bareboned that it's physically demanding to fly even 20 miles. Especially since the pilots alternate in real life, and the second pilot should be just as qualified, so I don't see the issue

Edited July 11, 2021 by Mivina

[Quadg]

3 hours ago, Mivina said:

 it's physically demanding to fly even 20 miles.

 I always end up flying it for so long on the search and recue server that I run out of fuel...

"has it really been 2 hours???"

 the fix you are looking for is not "autopilot" 

its removing the centre return spring from your joystick.

or if you don't want to do that then trim, trim, trim.

both remove the physically demanding fight with the centre return spring. As helicopters don't have return springs.

[admiki]

Yeah, I too was wondering about that physically demanding part? I believe he means it's hard to trim it so it will fly itself. While that might be so, I remember one instance where my pilot got killed, but helicopter kept flying. I waited to see how long before it crashed. After 10 minutes I got bored and bailed out.

[Mivina]

17 часов назад, Quadg сказал:

 I always end up flying it for so long on the search and recue server that I run out of fuel...

"has it really been 2 hours???"

 the fix you are looking for is not "autopilot" 

its removing the centre return spring from your joystick.

or if you don't want to do that then trim, trim, trim.

both remove the physically demanding fight with the centre return spring. As helicopters don't have return springs.

Still not my point. I use trimming, so spring is fine, but you still need to keep your hand on stick and throttle at all times. You don't really in real life, you can just pass it onto your friend to the right for 10 minutes. If it looks like a bug, swims like a bug and quacks like a bug then it is a bug. At least I think that it does, you notice how the helicopter starts turning right every time, with the same amount of turn. I think they just need to tune it better

[Sharkku]

I agree with you, @Mivina. It needs to be fixed. The argument "it's not an autopilot, it's intended to simulate a co-pilot" doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to keep a compass heading. A real copilot would be able to.

[rayrayblues]

On 8/18/2021 at 2:45 PM, Sharkku said:

I agree with you, @Mivina. It needs to be fixed. The argument "it's not an autopilot, it's intended to simulate a co-pilot" doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to keep a compass heading. A real copilot would be able to.

 

^This^

[pbishop]

Found this when I was playing around with the output through export.lua

 

With the AI co-pilot holding level flight (AP on):

 

arg(133) [slip indicator] value = average .0051

arg(142) [roll] value = -.0002

 

Doing some manual testing (AP on/off), .0051 for the gauge on the slip indicator value causes a lot of heading/track drift over 10 nm.  With AP on, the co-pilot just holds a positive slip, there is drift in the value over long periods of time, but it is not what you would expect if you were modeling a human pilot.  This seems to be a bug, it just doesn't reference 0 slip or ever get close enough to maintain track/ trim flight (min value observed: .0047)

Edited September 11, 2021 by pbishop

[HILOK]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:45 PM, Sharkku said:

The argument "it's not an autopilot, it's intended to simulate a co-pilot" doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to keep a compass heading. A real copilot would be able to.

totally agree with this, and would even go as far as saying, the copilot should also be able to turn and follow new headings, whenever the player adjusts the heading bug

[Tim_Fragmagnet]

The reason why the copilot can't hold a heading is actually fairly simple.

it's because the forces acting upon the helicopter in flight are not properly balanced while the autopilot is acting like they are.

I'm working on a flight model/dynamics document that will go into detail as to what's going on, give me time
.
But in short, translating tendency is simply not modeled in the aircraft due to the lack of lateral thrust by the tail rotor, its presence in high speed flight is faked by the excessive torque requirement at cruise speeds.
Combined with the improper volume of aerodynamic side force acting upon the helicopter and you end up with an autopilot that tries to fly wings level but ends up veering off course because the torque isn't balanced properly by the side forces on.. enough, you get the idea.

The autopilot wasn't designed to veer off course deliberately.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Tim_Fragmagnet

[HILOK]

@Tim_Fragmagnet yes, i think you already mentioned that somewhere. i am very glad you have the understanding and time to dig deeper into what's wrong and how this could be solved. thanks so much for doing this!

i'm just thinking, on the other hand, if the autopilot would just follow the heading bug, it would still do a better job despite the FM quirks. and it would be more useful as you could navigate with AP engaged.

for info:

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by HILOK
added for info

[Flappie]

Issue reported.

 

[dresoccer4]

woooo glad this issue has officially been reported! fingers crossed it'll get fixed soon

[dresoccer4]

anyone know if this ever got fixed or at least is being worked on?

[Flappie]

Not fixed, not being worked on so far.

[LuseKofte]

I am kind of daunted , I knew nothing about this autopilot. I kind of fly it a lot. Still a treasure despite the lack of love it’s get. 
I really hope it will get same love as KA 50 got. Same thing for the MI 8. Shame really. 

[dresoccer4]

8 hours ago, Flappie said:

Not fixed, not being worked on so far.

ah bummer news. but thanks for setting the record at least. cheers

[jpuk]

The older module, the higher priority should have it.

[LuseKofte]

On 6/24/2024 at 4:52 PM, jpuk said:

The older module, the higher priority should have it.

In special a legend like the Huey.  I would like a more modern one too. It been for too long neglected. 

[Romandv]

On 6/24/2024 at 5:52 PM, jpuk said:

The older module, the higher priority should have it.

I followed the link from the other thread..... the date is 2020. It's completely incomprehensible to me why this chopper is so ignored, I'm not talking about AI, just trivial bugs.

It's extremely frustrating.

[slowmover]

I would be great to have an AI like Apache has George

[Kang]

Wait a minute, this was a bug all along? The Huey 'autopilot' has been doing this back in... 2016 or so already. I always assumed it was intentional, in a 'don't leave things to Billy for too long' kind of way.

[artao]

I was wondering about this.
Another damn shame situation with ED just letting stuff slide.
Just cuz it's an older module doesn't mean it deserves to be ignored. It's a crazy huge important aircraft in the history of air warfare.
It's unbelievable how little effort ED seems to put into older modules. <sigh>

Edited September 27, 2024 by artao