correct as is Cannons have a 1 seconds delay before firing (actually .25 second delay on first pull)

[Hog_driver]

"And oh, guys, before you start your flying career, there's one more thing. When in combat, remember to start shooting a bit early.

Nothing serious, just a small design flaw, just a nuisance, really. Not a big deal. And you want to fly the Wooden Wonder, don't you?"

Edited October 27, 2021 by Hog_driver

[SMH]

I find this extremely unlikely too. What evidence is this behavior based on?

[Magic Zach]

Bump.  "Correct-as-is" looks apparently incorrect after all.  This is a pretty significantly noticeable issue...cannons firing with a delay.  Not something that would be missed by any users.

[iFoxRomeo]

The same cannons like the Spitfire has, but de Havilland was unable to put them into the mossie without a delay?... Hmmm...

I'd really like to see the documentation, that says so.

@NineLine So if ED really thinks, this is correct as is, but the community just can't believe it, how about this:

Some modules have special options like: take off assist, nose wheel steering simple behaviour, (non)realistic TDC slew, auto rudder, disable gyro drift, simplified engine management, afterburner detent, canopy reflections, etc..

Why not add a -no trigger delay for Hispanos- option in the special tab for the Mossie?!

[Bozon]

43 minutes ago, iFoxRomeo said:

The same cannons like the Spitfire has, but de Havilland was unable to put them into the mossie without a delay?... Hmmm...

I'd really like to see the documentation, that says so.

@NineLine So if ED really thinks, this is correct as is, but the community just can't believe it, how about this:

Some modules have special options like: take off assist, nose wheel steering simple behaviour, (non)realistic TDC slew, auto rudder, disable gyro drift, simplified engine management, afterburner detent, canopy reflections, etc..

Why not add a -no trigger delay for Hispanos- option in the special tab for the Mossie?!

The delay is either correct or incorrect:

If correct, as much as I find this hard to believe, then this is how it should work, not as an option.

If incorrect, then fix it and be done with this.

[NineLine]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:51 AM, Magic Zach said:

Bump.  "Correct-as-is" looks apparently incorrect after all.  This is a pretty significantly noticeable issue...cannons firing with a delay.  Not something that would be missed by any users.

Based on what? I don't see an issue, who is seeing a full second, I don't think its that long, maybe half a second if that, certainly nothing that would affect be hitting my target in a strafing run. 

From what I can see, it looks like when you push a button bound to it, there is a small movement of the actual trigger on the stick in the sim, as it has to travel slightly, then the gun fires, but I am not seeing a full second. The travel time of you pushing a button vs the travel of the trigger in the game seems to be the desync. SO the only thing I can imagine is if the trigger moves faster when pushed. But even then, its not slow by any means... so I really cant see any issue.

[Bozon]

5 hours ago, NineLine said:

Based on what? I don't see an issue, who is seeing a full second, I don't think its that long, maybe half a second if that, certainly nothing that would affect be hitting my target in a strafing run. 

From what I can see, it looks like when you push a button bound to it, there is a small movement of the actual trigger on the stick in the sim, as it has to travel slightly, then the gun fires, but I am not seeing a full second. The travel time of you pushing a button vs the travel of the trigger in the game seems to be the desync. SO the only thing I can imagine is if the trigger moves faster when pushed. But even then, its not slow by any means... so I really cant see any issue.

If that were the case it would have affected all planes in the game. This delay exists only in the mosquito, which has the same guns and a similar firing mechanism as the Spitfire.

[Magic Zach]

5 hours ago, NineLine said:

Based on what? I don't see an issue, who is seeing a full second, I don't think its that long, maybe half a second if that, certainly nothing that would affect be hitting my target in a strafing run. 

From what I can see, it looks like when you push a button bound to it, there is a small movement of the actual trigger on the stick in the sim, as it has to travel slightly, then the gun fires, but I am not seeing a full second. The travel time of you pushing a button vs the travel of the trigger in the game seems to be the desync. SO the only thing I can imagine is if the trigger moves faster when pushed. But even then, its not slow by any means... so I really cant see any issue.

The trigger pull is instantaneous.  The moment the command button is pressed, the reflective trigger in the cockpit is as well.  There is no tweening-movement, it is purely on/off.
And for the sake of things, while yes it is not one second, it is actually 0.3 of a second delay (I did time it).  Not much on paper but it's actually quite meaningful in aerial fights.  Which, intended or not, will happen a lot with the Mosquito as they try to hit moving targets.

[Krupi]

7 hours ago, NineLine said:

Based on what? I don't see an issue, who is seeing a full second, I don't think its that long, maybe half a second if that, certainly nothing that would affect be hitting my target in a strafing run. 

I am sorry but that is nonsense, any kind of delay when flying over a target at the speeds these guys were in reality would definitely hinder their ability to hit a target. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Krupi

[bell_rj]

7 hours ago, NineLine said:

Based on what? I don't see an issue, who is seeing a full second, I don't think its that long, maybe half a second if that, certainly nothing that would affect be hitting my target in a strafing run. 

From what I can see, it looks like when you push a button bound to it, there is a small movement of the actual trigger on the stick in the sim, as it has to travel slightly, then the gun fires, but I am not seeing a full second. The travel time of you pushing a button vs the travel of the trigger in the game seems to be the desync. SO the only thing I can imagine is if the trigger moves faster when pushed. But even then, its not slow by any means... so I really cant see any issue.

Maybe you've played the Mossie a lot and got used to it? Personally, I find the delay very jarring. It really sticks out to me. I cannot believe that the delay (which lots of players have also noticed, so I know I'm not going mad) is realistic. It certainly feels too slow. Please get the team to investigate it.

[Holbeach]

9 hours ago, NineLine said:

Based on what? I don't see an issue, who is seeing a full second, I don't think its that long, maybe half a second if that, certainly nothing that would affect be hitting my target in a strafing run. 

 

Some facts:

 

Measuring the time delay, cannons only, with a video editor, the times were:

 

First shot ---- 0.25 secs.

Second shot - 0.15 secs.

Subsequent shots - 0.15 secs.

Trigger movement, add 0.033 secs.

 

 

 

 

..

Edited November 9, 2021 by Holbeach

[Bozon]

@NineLine

What we ask for is an explanation why such a delay should exist, while no other warbird or otherwise has this. What is this modeling choice based on?

If this is physically correct then so be it and we accept it - happily even, because we want correct modeling as much as possible. We just can’t see the (real world physics) reason for this delay to exist, so either we are missing something, or that this is incorrect.

p.s.,

The 303 mg’s also have a delay, but it seems shorter. For both I can easily press fire and release soon enough so no bullet is fired. This does not make sense for an electro-pneumatic trigger, unless somebody thinks that it takes a long time for the pneumatic piston to pull the mechanical trigger and that I can stop it half way through the action.

 

[Krupi]

1 hour ago, Bozon said:

@NineLine

What we ask for is an explanation why such a delay should exist, while no other warbird or otherwise has this. What is this modeling choice based on?

If this is physically correct then so be it and we accept it - happily even, because we want correct modeling as much as possible. We just can’t see the (real world physics) reason for this delay to exist, so either we are missing something, or that this is incorrect.

p.s.,

The 303 mg’s also have a delay, but it seems shorter. For both I can easily press fire and release soon enough so no bullet is fired. This does not make sense for an electro-pneumatic trigger, unless somebody thinks that it takes a long time for the pneumatic piston to pull the mechanical trigger and that I can stop it half way through the action.

 

This, we just want to see some compelling evidence that is all. 

Changing the title "To correct as is" just doesn't cut the mustard.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Krupi

[NineLine]

I have confirmed with the team this is accurate as is. This delay can even be seen in some modern fighters. So remains correct as is. And I tested heavily last night and saw no impact on employment of the guns vs various targets.

19 hours ago, Krupi said:

This, we just want to see some compelling evidence that is all. 

Changing the title "To correct as is" just doesn't cut the mustard.

That's not how this works, we model, and I would hope you would expect it to be so, to the best of our knowledge and documentation. We are not perfect, but no one has given anything more than feelings on this, it is correct as is, just as changing it to correct as is was the correct answer. 

We dont have to document ever thing we do to prove it to people that feel its wrong, that would end up being a full time job, as stated, if you have an issue and have documentation, then post it. Otherwise its not really a bug report.

As a side point, the title of this thread is even misleading, its not a 1 second delay.

Thanks.

From one of our SME's on the Mosquito

[draftingscotch]

I just got done flying the new Mosquito, and it's a lot of fun to fly, but the firing delay on the cannons and the machine guns is VERY frustrating. 

I just read through all of the other thread that was just closed, which said that the firing delay is under 1 second and is working as intended, but my experience with the firing delay is MUCH worse.  I see delays of 4 seconds or more for both machine guns and cannons, and the amount of delay is inconsistent as well, where they will sometimes fire after 1 second of holding the trigger but sometimes after more than 4 seconds.

I just took a hand-held video that I uploaded to Youtube showing the delay.  You can see the triggers on the Mosquito's flight-stick getting depressed and held, and then you can see the actual cannon/machine-gun rounds getting fired out of the nose much later.  I do not have this issue with any other plane in DCS, so I don't think it's my hardware at fault.

 

It's a bit frustrating to hear that Eagle Dynamics has put this topic to bed, because there are those of us (like me) who are still having major issues.  Hopefully, you'll take a look at my video and re-consider this topic.

Thanks.

 

[Enduro14]

this was answered by a fella on discord who works on Mosquitos in real life.  Its correct as is and if you read what he wrote you would understand why.