Any one care to speculate on performance hit?

[Digitalvole]

AS a VR user I live life on the edge of “acceptable” It’s the life I chose

At first I thought the Apache was going to be a hog but having watched the videos I’ve done a U turn.

Im currently enjoying the F14 and as far as I can tell the AH64 looks a lot less polly heavy. It’s mostly screens rather than switches which must be a good thing for our gpus.

What might tip the scales in the other direction is the reliance on the “tgp” my frame rate drops in the f 18/16 whenever I have that on.

Also there is the low altitude flying, but I haven’t found that issue in the Huey. And at much lower speeds I’d imagine our hardware has more time to cache things. That being said I’m no expert on such matters as how computers do what they do. 

What do you guys think? I’m really rather optimistic which is odd because I’m a born pessimist

 

 

[Ramsay]

41 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

What do you guys think?

Fewer polys/switches is good but lots of MFD's plus the HUD (4+1=5 for the CPG) also eats frames.

I expect flying low over Beirut or Aleppo will be demanding due to large number of buildings, etc. (it is for other helicopters but I don't notice framerate drops as I'm scanning outside for threats, etc.). Away from the major Syrian cities or on the Caucasus map, I'd expect framerates to be stable but perhaps not as high as you'd like.

I don't think we'll know exactly how demanding the Apache is until we get it.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Ramsay

[Enduro14]

Vr may be playable with 3090,  unless dcs core gets updated it will be a hog like the Hind is and probably more.  Also with the new flir that could be more taxing but ya  probably be shelved until it’s optimized.  For example turn on the cockpit lights in the hind and enjoy the 30 percentage increase on the GPU and not maintain fps in vr.

[Schmidtfire]

@Digitalvole 

My advice is try first with "Free to play". Unless ED has done some multithreading magic, we are talking many sensors, screens and HMD in VR flying at
low levels. Will it run great? No, not for anyone. But it might be acceptable and enjoyable if your system can handle, it just like other modules in VR.

[Digitalvole]

Well quite a few things here I hadn’t thought of, drat.

I think not pre ordering this time is sound advice for me. Hopefully when the Vulcan/multithreading business is taken care of all will be well.

Whatever, I’m sure it’ll be well worth the wait

[Lurker]

This is why I've not pre-ordered the AH64 and have stopped playing DCS World. I don't think my system is a slouch, but in VR things have gotten pretty bad with the recent patches. I could go back to 2d, but it's not the same thing at all, once you go VR you can't really go back to 2d in any kind of sim really. With that said I'm cautiously optimistic, and will probably be getting the Apache once I read some performance reviews of how it flies in VR by the VR buffs who regularly post on these forums. Hopefully by then some more performance fixes will be incoming to DCS World. 

[Digitalvole]

I got things to a place where I was very happy with the performance and visuals and 1 week latter a patch came out that killed the VR shader mod. Haven’t played much since then.

Though am I right in thinking that’s been sorted out now? 

I tried Star Wars Squadrons the other day, VR performance was not good though I didn’t do any tinkering around with settings. There’s only so many hours in a day and as few of those I can spend tinkering the better.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Digitalvole

[Boosterdog]

On 11/27/2021 at 7:43 PM, Digitalvole said:

Also there is the low altitude flying, but I haven’t found that issue in the Huey. And at much lower speeds I’d imagine our hardware has more time to cache things. That being said I’m no expert on such matters as how computers do what they do. 

Two high res cockpits rendered at the same time, potentially doubling up of FLIR "live action" screens on the MFD, higher detailed ground textures and objects, rotor blade animations. Going slower doesnt help the PC in a helo. The new Helos are a bigger hog than aircraft. 

I am sure ED know this though so I fully expect some ying for the yang - just perhaps not at the same time. I dont think you would launch something that couldnt be played on anything but an uber rig but then again The Channel Map and Syria  exists so perhaps not. 

The Apache is being offered at a good discount which recently got better with more air miles. You may or may not wish to widly speculate why ED felt the need to do this but I think the Apache is an important launch for them which gives me some hope.  Regardless of the reasons, a good discount is a good discount and may not be matched in a sale, post release, for some time. It could be a good half price banker for later enjoyment or it could always exceed in its demands. Until we see it in game and in a game with the new utilisation of Multicore and Vulkan, its a gamble thats going to be bigger for some than others dependent on their exchange rates and personal circumstances. Im still on the fence. 

I will however speculate that this topic  may get moved to the 2.7  bugs section like my similar post did

Edited November 29, 2021 by Boosterdog

[Digitalvole]

Yeah that’s my dilemma, buy now for cheaper and if it isn’t great performance wise just leave it the hanger till the above mentioned Vulcan etc are implemented. Or wait and see what others say about it and pay more. 

I bought the F14 and didn’t use it for a year (I thought it wasn’t going to be much good in SP, I was VERY wrong) now it’s my go to plane. It’s so good! 

Full price for the AH64 is about sixty of my English pounds which is still great value for money in my humble opinion. First world problems

[Boosterdog]

13 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Yeah that’s my dilemma, buy now for cheaper and if it isn’t great performance wise just leave it the hanger till the above mentioned Vulcan etc are implemented. Or wait and see what others say about it and pay more. 

I bought the F14 and didn’t use it for a year (I thought it wasn’t going to be much good in SP, I was VERY wrong) now it’s my go to plane. It’s so good! 

Full price for the AH64 is about sixty of my English pounds which is still great value for money in my humble opinion. First world problems

I will admit that Im very much leaning to just buying the thing. Even if I can only sit in the cockpit going "Kerpow, dakka dakka dakka" for a while. 

[Digitalvole]

2 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

I will admit that Im very much leaning to just buying the thing. Even if I can only sit in the cockpit going "Kerpow, dakka dakka dakka" for a while. 

Haha brilliant.

Sold!

[Legs]

Im nervous myself. I spent a tiny bit of time with the hind and noticed how much of a clunker that thing was when it came to resources but the Hornet and almost everything else is rather smooth, even in MP.  I am on a 2070 SUPER Ryzen 5 3600X 32 GB RAM all on an M.2. I guess time will tell.

[stormrider]

5 hours ago, Legs said:

Im nervous myself. I spent a tiny bit of time with the hind and noticed how much of a clunker that thing was when it came to resources but the Hornet and almost everything else is rather smooth, even in MP.  I am on a 2070 SUPER Ryzen 5 3600X 32 GB RAM all on an M.2. I guess time will tell.

That's the thing. We're in 2022 and the 2070 or my 1070ti for that matter, are both obsolete and our R5 3600 is a budget entry level, older generation cpu for today's standards. The gaming industry kept moving forward while those of us not sitting on gold mines were left behind in terms of hardware. Don't expect to be able to run smoothly a 2022 non-optimized dcs module with 2018 mid-low hardware.

On my side, I'm buying it, but I don't expect to be able to run it until at least 2023, when I hope to be able to purchase some used hardware on ebay. Vulkan will certainly help, but will it save the day with "inclusivity"? I don't think so.

[sirrah]

For anyone new reading all these posts:

 

It's all very much a matter of  user expectations..

I'm flying DCS in VR with my Reverb G1 with, by today's standards, sort of a low end system (gtx1080ti, i7-8700k and 32gb ram) and I'm totally enjoying every session.

Sure, I had to tune down graphics a tad, but I'm still very well capable of reading everything, spot targets and play on heavy MP servers (also in the Hind) with decent fps and without stutters.

No offense meant, but just to put some of the "negative" posts here in perspective.

 

Of course I too wait with great anticipation on what Vulkan and multicore might bring us, but it's unfair to imply that DCS is unplayable at the moment in VR.

Edited January 9, 2022 by sirrah

[Boosterdog]

2 hours ago, stormrider said:

That's the thing. We're in 2022 and the 2070 or my 1070ti for that matter, are both obsolete and our R5 3600 is a budget entry level, older generation cpu for today's standards.

I agree with this but would also say the DCS core is also becomming or has already become obsolete for the complexity of the modules, maps and world effects being pushed out. The issue doesnt just sit with the consumer being expected to PWWRRR it out because, often even that doesnt fully solve it. 

[stormrider]

43 minutes ago, sirrah said:

For anyone new reading all these posts:

 

It's all very much a matter of  user expectations..

I'm flying DCS in VR with my Reverb G1 with, by today's standards, sort of a low end system (gtx1080ti, i7-8700k and 32gb ram) and I'm totally enjoying every session.

Sure, I had to tune down graphics a tad, but I'm still very well capable of reading everything, spot targets and play on heavy MP servers (also in the Hind) with decent fps and without stutters.

No offense meant, but just to put some of the "negative" posts here in perspective.

 

Of course I too wait with great anticipation on what Vulkan and multicore might bring us, but it's unfair to imply that DCS is unplayable at the moment in VR.

 

It depends on what you can playable of course. Syria map, on a F-16, 30fps at bare minimum graphics on an old Rift, with barely readable cockpit and with limited amounts of AI entities, for me it becomes very quickly an unacceptable compromise. Some people can get past the low fps VR sickness and/or the blandness of the graphics, I mostly can't, at least not for too long.

[BIGNEWY]

Im testing in VR, my usual reverbG2 settings I get a smooth 45 fps at low level, higher at altitude, not seeing any problem. 

[ST0RM]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Im testing in VR, my usual reverbG2 settings I get a smooth 45 fps at low level, higher at altitude, not seeing any problem. 

What are your system specs? Thanks.

Edited January 9, 2022 by ST0RM

[Boosterdog]

He has a 3090 and a 10900K @ 5.3 Ghz.  

No idea what usual settings are or what they usuallly return. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Boosterdog

[BIGNEWY]

56 minutes ago, ST0RM said:

What are your system specs? Thanks.

 

I have a monster 

 

MY PC: Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 32GB RAM @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming

[stormrider]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Im testing in VR, my usual reverbG2 settings I get a smooth 45 fps at low level, higher at altitude, not seeing any problem. 

Am I wrong to say that with your specs, surprising is that you don't get 90fps?

[Rogue Trooper]

I think it will be many years before we see 90 fps with awesome graphics in any highly complex flight sim.

For VR, graphics set high and in nice complex battlefields, running at 60Hz solid would be my dream come true!

Edited January 9, 2022 by Rogue Trooper

[BIGNEWY]

41 minutes ago, stormrider said:

Am I wrong to say that with your specs, surprising is that you don't get 90fps?

yes you are wrong. 
If you are getting 45fps in VR and it is smooth you are doing well.

 

[stormrider]

6 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

yes you are wrong. 
If you are getting 45fps in VR and it is smooth you are doing well.

 

Sure, 45fps you're doing well, but with the most powerful hardware money can buy, the software definitely is not.

 

Or perhaps DCS developement is aiming for a 45fps VR experience. Half the capacity of modern headsets, but if people are not getting sick and can push max graphics, I guess I'm wrong.

[BIGNEWY]

24 minutes ago, stormrider said:

Sure, 45fps you're doing well, but with the most powerful hardware money can buy, the software definitely is not.

 

Or perhaps DCS developement is aiming for a 45fps VR experience. Half the capacity of modern headsets, but if people are not getting sick and can push max graphics, I guess I'm wrong.

DCS came before VR was popular, it is something that has been added to DCS, if it was an APP built from the ground up for VR I  would agree with you, but it was not. 

Our hopes are pinned on multicore and vulkan currently, until we can test it in full we wont know the potential performance gains, work continues, hopefully we can share news soon.