NEW DCS SOVIET AIRCRAFT from 2022 Trailer... MiG-27???

[CommandT]

Hey folks, 

So at the end of the 2022 DCS Trailer we found out we are getting Afghanistan (yey! - probably Soviet-era since it's like a VHS tape) and also a new aircraft judging by the gun sight pipper. Does anyone know what it is? By a process of elimination I've deduced it's a MiG-27. I don't think it's a 23, or an Su-25... but I can't find any google images or vids of a MiG-27 gun sight/ pipper that isn't Indian (modified). Anyone got any confirmation?

 

[Silver_Dragon]

gun shight has a F-4E Phantom II.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Silver_Dragon

[CommandT]

And what good is an F-4 in Afghanistan???? Hahaha. Thanks though!! 

Can we please swap the Afghanistan map out for Vietnam then! 

[lmp]

F-4 fits great on the Persian Gulf and Syrian maps, and as well as any Western a/c on the Caucasus map. The Afghanistan map is a perfect fit for a lot of existing modules, including the latest helicopters. These two announcements don't have to be connected. I'd love me a Soviet ground pounder, but all clues point to the Phantom.

[Beirut]

Would love to have a full fidelity Mig-27. That would be just fine. 

[Dannyvandelft]

If we're to have any Russian 27 in full fidelity, I'd want it to be a Sukhoi lol.

But I think it's a Phantom.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

2 hours ago, Beirut said:

Would love to have a full fidelity Mig-27.

The aircraft with a gun powerful enough to shoot itself down! 

ТР-Р-Р-Р-ЫК !

[Beirut]

9 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

The aircraft with a gun powerful enough to shoot itself down! 

ТР-Р-Р-Р-ЫК !

 

I saw a video about that the other day. 

 

I want one! 

[Avimimus]

I'd love a Mig-27. or better yet, a Su-17... old enough we might get them.

 

But there was no Soviet/Russian aircraft in the trailer other than the updated 3d model for the Kamov and some shots of the Mi-24P.

[Mars Exulte]

12 hours ago, CommandT said:

And what good is an F-4 in Afghanistan????

  The F-4 that was flown in the Gulf War and is flown by multiple countries around that part of the world? That F-4? Regardless, they're two separate entities. One is a map, the other is a plane, they are not required to be directly relevant to one another.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Mars Exulte

[bies]

10 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Regardless, they're two separate entities. One is a map, the other is a plane, they are not required to be directly relevant to one another.

Exactly that. What Eiffel tower has to do with Apache in this trailer? Nothing. And it doesn't have to. Two very different eras.

[CommandT]

Having an F-4 without a Vietnam map will yield very limited realistic scenarios for missions. Which I understand some people won't care about but for me it's important

A bit like having a Falklands map and not having a single full fidelity module from that era (AV-8B is not one). 

[Mars Exulte]

53 minutes ago, CommandT said:

Having an F-4 without a Vietnam map will yield very limited realistic scenarios for missions. Which I understand some people won't care about but for me it's important

A bit like having a Falklands map and not having a single full fidelity module from that era (AV-8B is not one). 

  F-4's have been flown by the following countries :

 

Greece (We have Cyprus and Turkey on the Syria map) (F-4Es, specifically)

Iran (We have on the Persian Gulf map) (also F-4Es)

South Korea (Also F-4Es)

Turkey (Same as #1) (Also F-4Es)

Australia (Also F-4Es)

Egypt (Also F-4Es)

Germany (Also F-4Es)

Israel (Syria map, ALSO F-4Es)

Japan (ALSO F-4Es)

Spain (Actually not Es, but you thought I was going to say it!)

UK (Not Es)

And lastly, the US and A (Es, among others, obviously)

 

We have five of those countries and maps to fly them on where they historically flew. The E is also not a Vietnam era aircraft, being more 1980s as I understand. Regardless, while it's an iconic aircraft of Vietnam in the American imagination, it flew in multiple other theaters, including in US service, that we have available, and is NOT limited to "Vietnam" for the rest of the world. "very limited scenarios" @@ If your imagination is also very limited, I suppose so.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Mars Exulte

[Gianky]

1 hour ago, Mars Exulte said:

  F-4's have been flown by the following countries :

 

Greece (We have Cyprus and Turkey on the Syria map) (F-4Es, specifically)

Iran (We have on the Persian Gulf map) (also F-4Es)

South Korea (Also F-4Es)

Turkey (Same as #1) (Also F-4Es)

Australia (Also F-4Es)

Egypt (Also F-4Es)

Germany (Also F-4Es)

Israel (Syria map, ALSO F-4Es)

Japan (ALSO F-4Es)

Spain (Actually not Es, but you thought I was going to say it!)

UK (Not Es)

And lastly, the US and A (Es, among others, obviously)

 

We have five of those countries and maps to fly them on where they historically flew. The E is also not a Vietnam era aircraft, being more 1980s as I understand. Regardless, while it's an iconic aircraft of Vietnam in the American imagination, it flew in multiple other theaters, including in US service, that we have available, and is NOT limited to "Vietnam" for the rest of the world. "very limited scenarios" @@ If your imagination is also very limited, I suppose so.

 

Since I'm picky, just a couple of corrections: first, Germany flew a different variant, the F-4F, that was based on the F-4E but initially lacked A2A medium range missiles (except for that, it was an -E; it was later updated to use medium range, radar guided missiles); second, the F-4E first flight was in 1965, it saw extensive service in Vietnam, too, not only in the '80s, so it is a Vietnam era aircraft (and an '80s aircraft... long service life! But in the '80 the -E served mostly in ANG units, especially after the half of the decade, front line units had the recce version and the Wild Weasel G, the last one to see combat during Desert Storm - I'm talking about US service, of course).

Edited December 25, 2021 by Gianky

[lmp]

The F-4E that was initially being developed by BST was supposed to be a 1980s USAF variant - I presume that's why this date came up. Of course, plans may have changed since then, we'll have to wait and see.

 

That being said, F-4E would be a great fit for the Persian Gulf and Syria maps. In fact, I don't think I can come up with a more historically fitting a/c except for a few that we already have. I don't understand the fixation on Vietnam, it was far from the only big war where the Phantom played a part. I'd say it wasn't even the most interesting one, but that's of course just my opinion.

[Gunfreak]

32 minutes ago, lmp said:

The F-4E that was initially being developed by BST was supposed to be a 1980s USAF variant - I presume that's why this date came up. Of course, plans may have changed since then, we'll have to wait and see.

 

That being said, F-4E would be a great fit for the Persian Gulf and Syria maps. In fact, I don't think I can come up with a more historically fitting a/c except for a few that we already have. I don't understand the fixation on Vietnam, it was far from the only big war where the Phantom played a part. I'd say it wasn't even the most interesting one, but that's of course just my opinion.

Because we have  MiG19, Mig21, and the Huey. We have the A4 mod, and soon A6 and F4.

Many appropriate ground assets.

So all you need is a Vietnam map  and infantry assets and you have a "Vietnam simulator " more complete than the DCS ww2 thing  

[lmp]

35 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Because we have  MiG19, Mig21, and the Huey. We have the A4 mod, and soon A6 and F4.

Many appropriate ground assets.

So all you need is a Vietnam map  and infantry assets and you have a "Vietnam simulator " more complete than the DCS ww2 thing  

How does that go against anything I said? I'm not arguing that a Vietnam map would be a bad fit for an F-4E module or DCS in general. I'm arguing that the F-4E would be a great fit for the existing maps - the Israeli and Iranian AFs used the type extensively in combat and the latter still flies it today. I could agree that, let's say, the MiG-15 doesn't make much sense without a Korea map since it didn't do anything particularly exciting outside of that war, but the F-4E is far more than just a Vietnam war jet.

[Gunfreak]

37 minutes ago, lmp said:

How does that go against anything I said? I'm not arguing that a Vietnam map would be a bad fit for an F-4E module or DCS in general. I'm arguing that the F-4E would be a great fit for the existing maps - the Israeli and Iranian AFs used the type extensively in combat and the latter still flies it today. I could agree that, let's say, the MiG-15 doesn't make much sense without a Korea map since it didn't do anything particularly exciting outside of that war, but the F-4E is far more than just a Vietnam war jet.

But it's iconic for Vietnam.  It was in Vietnam it was THE US fighter. (With crusader, Skyhawk and intruder kinda forgotten about) 

The B29 was used in Korea,  but it's still associated with WW2, if you made a B29 bomber but didn't have a ww2 map/part of the game, it be a little strange. or P51 for that matter saw lots of action in Korea,  but if you just had P51 and no ww2, it would feel odd.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

5 hours ago, CommandT said:

Having an F-4 without a Vietnam map will yield very limited realistic scenarios for missions. 

DCS is already filled with 'What-ifs'. What's a few more?

To avoid that, we'd really need an era appropriate MiG-21 and a MiG-17 for the VPAF. The Fishbeds the North Vietnamese flew were a lot lighter than our bis and MiG-17s actually have an afterburner unlike the MiG-15. The 21bis didn't reach the VPAF until pretty well after the fall of Saigon and unification.

Yet, they'd still be the go-to's. The F-4 we were, presumably, getting from BST featured a lot of post-Vietnam upgrades to make it better at low speed. The dogfights we'd see in a DCS Vietnam wouldn't be an accurate depiction of what happened.

And this is even before you get into the F-4's absolute epic of a career. The entire game is based around these what-if scenarios. It's just how it is.

Edited December 25, 2021 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[lmp]

I disagree when it comes to the Phantom. Your argument makes sense to me in case of aircraft such as the MiG-15 that I mentioned or, in case of the Vietnam War, the F-100. Yeah, these aircraft saw some combat outside of their famous war, but I can see how incorporating them into realistic historical scenarios could be difficult (though not impossible). The Phantom is a different story. It was the backbone of the IDF in its time, fought in the bloody Yom Kippur war and beyond scoring a comparable number of kills to the USAF/USN in Vietnam. The Iranians used them in their long and bloody, if not very well researched, war with Iraq and continue to use them to this day. That is a lot of really interesting history. We shouldn't let the pop-cultural image fool us into thinking the F-4 was "pretty much just Vietnam".

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

5 minutes ago, lmp said:

I disagree when it comes to the Phantom. Your argument makes sense to me in case of aircraft such as the MiG-15 that I mentioned or, in case of the Vietnam War, the F-100. Yeah, these aircraft saw some combat outside of their famous war, but I can see how incorporating them into realistic historical scenarios could be difficult (though not impossible). The Phantom is a different story. It was the backbone of the IDF in its time, fought in the bloody Yom Kippur war and beyond scoring a comparable number of kills to the USAF/USN in Vietnam. The Iranians used them in their long and bloody, if not very well researched, war with Iraq and continue to use them to this day. That is a lot of really interesting history. We shouldn't let the pop-cultural image fool us into thinking the F-4 was "pretty much just Vietnam".

It's a very American-centric vision for a fighter whose proliferation is only just now being matched by the F-16.

[Mars Exulte]

4 hours ago, lmp said:

The F-4E that was initially being developed by BST was supposed to be a 1980s USAF variant - I presume that's why this date came up.

  Yeah, that's why I said that :)

4 hours ago, lmp said:

Of course, plans may have changed since then, we'll have to wait and see.

  Also true. We're basing our speculation off previous rumors and now a gunsight, afterall.

 

5 hours ago, Gianky said:

Since I'm picky, just a couple of corrections:

  Yeah, I know, some of them were offshoot variants branched off the E, but we're not going to get 47 versions of whatever it is, so the 'parent variant' will end up a standin for everything else. But yeah, you're right.

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

The B29 was used in Korea,  but it's still associated with WW2

  Technically, the B-29 was Pacific theater for that matter, and even then I'm pretty sure it's only known as the nuke dropper. When people think of WWII they think of B-17s almost exclusively, peripherally aware of the B-29 due to the nuke, and the B-24 out there barely recognised (ironic considering it was arguably superior and was produced in larger numbers, but then it didn't have any movies made about it either afaik)

2 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

It's a very American-centric vision

  That's what we're best known for =)

[Dragon1-1]

I certainly wouldn't mind an 80s E-model Phantom, though if it isn't ED making it, maybe we could get multiple variants, from Vietnam to Gulf. The E model Phantom didn't change that much between variants. We are getting the MiG-17, and we've already got the MiG-19, which also flew in Vietnam. It's only the -21 that's a later, heavier version.

[SkateZilla]

7 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

  F-4's have been flown by the following countries :

And lastly, the US and A (Es, among others, obviously)

You Meant to say F-4A,B,C,D,E,G,J,K,N,S

[Mars Exulte]

51 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

4A,B,C,D,E,G,J,K,N,S

G? What happened to F?!