Announcing the F-4 Phantom for DCS World!

[Gianky]

2 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

It's not close enough for me.

Don't forget about the F-100D, which I'd want to fly out of the Hoas and Da Nang.

Edit: Almost forgot about Phu Cat, the Spad and my two favourite chicks: Sandy and Misty.

 

Thank you for making me discover Misty!

[Trooper117]

We need to discover a 'Thud' as well...

[dcsil2pilot]

Vietnam won't be a possibility until destructible trees are in the game.

 

Otherwise it's going to be a major letdown when they can see through the trees, shoot through the trees, but your bombs hit a branch and the splash doesn't do anything

[LanceCriminal86]

As a reminder export Es will be limited to liveries only. They're staying in front of the scope creep that happened with the F-14, the most you will see for the F-4E anytime in the near or mid-term would be some special pilot equipment for some of the ones that had more unique helmets or survival gear, namely Germany and Japan. They're not adding on the ICE, Kurnass 2000, Greek upgrades, EJ/EJ Kai, any of that jazz.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

16 hours ago, WarbossPetross said:

They're planning to overhaul the MiG and bring it up to par with the current DCS standard once the Corsair is released. I don't think we'll be getting other models, even though I would pay for a PFM.

And here I got excited. Oh well.

[exhausted]

On 2/19/2023 at 12:48 AM, 79Au said:

In my opinion both F-4 and F-15 suffer from the same issue in DCS, and that's the maps. Why buy an F-4 or F-15 if there's no ODS map or Afghanistan. (or Vietnam) I'm just fed up flying over strait of hormuz or Syria pretending to fight some fictional war and wonder why we don't deserve an actual combat maps for US assets.

I heard Afghanistan was coming, but it seems like it's very low priority. Last year's flood of strange map announcements and the release of South Atlantic (at $70) really killed my optimism and discourages me from spending any more money on this sim.

Sometimes I think about asking HB or ED how to become a map developer... Because someone needs to get it done. There's so many stories, tales, documentaries, interviews and whatnot about major conflicts and it sucks we can't fly these missions in DCS.

Any map with coastline would be great if we had a carrierborne Phantom coming instead, which would largely take care of that problem.

[SgtPappy]

On 2/19/2023 at 1:48 AM, 79Au said:

In my opinion both F-4 and F-15 suffer from the same issue in DCS, and that's the maps. Why buy an F-4 or F-15 if there's no ODS map or Afghanistan. (or Vietnam) I'm just fed up flying over strait of hormuz or Syria pretending to fight some fictional war and wonder why we don't deserve an actual combat maps for US assets.

I heard Afghanistan was coming, but it seems like it's very low priority. Last year's flood of strange map announcements and the release of South Atlantic (at $70) really killed my optimism and discourages me from spending any more money on this sim.

Sometimes I think about asking HB or ED how to become a map developer... Because someone needs to get it done. There's so many stories, tales, documentaries, interviews and whatnot about major conflicts and it sucks we can't fly these missions in DCS.

I think a lot of people have addressed this already but I'd also like to point out that even if less than half the Israeli and Iranian claims are to be believed, they still scored more kills in the F-4E than the USAF did in Vietnam. They also fired more AGM-65's and possibly destroyed more ground targets with them.

I can empathize with Vietnam being the most popular and favourite among the DCS crowd, so I get it. But I think it's important to remember that the Vietnam War was not the only, and arguably not necessarily the most important conflict from several metrics for every history buff on these forums.

 

17 hours ago, exhausted said:

Any map with coastline would be great if we had a carrierborne Phantom coming instead, which would largely take care of that problem.

I think the Marianas could *maybe* work even if you take off and pretend you're in a USAF Thailand base but the immersion sort of breaks down once you see water everywhere. I think we'll have to wait and hope that there will be a practical way of simulating trees that block LoS while also allowing munitions through.

[exhausted]

13 minutes ago, SgtPappy said:

I think a lot of people have addressed this already but I'd also like to point out that even if less than half the Israeli and Iranian claims are to be believed, they still scored more kills in the F-4E than the USAF did in Vietnam. They also fired more AGM-65's and possibly destroyed more ground targets with them.

I can empathize with Vietnam being the most popular and favourite among the DCS crowd, so I get it. But I think it's important to remember that the Vietnam War was not the only, and arguably not necessarily the most important conflict from several metrics for every history buff on these forums.

 

I think the Marianas could *maybe* work even if you take off and pretend you're in a USAF Thailand base but the immersion sort of breaks down once you see water everywhere. I think we'll have to wait and hope that there will be a practical way of simulating trees that block LoS while also allowing munitions through.

I suppose you can pretend Thailand is on one island and Hanoi is on the other... 

[Jojothebox]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:43 AM, Mikep821 said:

Yeah, if you wait like 20 years

look how F-4 is looking, no release date, nothing from HB and thez were like: Yeah we are comfy with december 2022 or early 2023 .... now is where ? late 2023 ? kinda joke... but still gonna buy it, just getting kinda pissed about the customer support 

so while i understand the frustration i think it’s important to remember that heatblur’s policy on unreleased modules is radio silence until imminent release. that way they avoid issues like razbams mishandling of the F-15. also some of their staff are in ukraine continuing work on this product while in a literal war zone. and as delays go there’s been 1 compared to the A-10C updates 3 and the F-15E’s however many at this point that’s really good. and finally from what i’ve heard it’s still on track to release in q1 early q2 2023, likely either in the late march/april update since ed don’t release two products at once and have gone down to one major update a month. 

[Elf1606688794]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:01 PM, exhausted said:

Any map with coastline would be great if we had a carrierborne Phantom coming instead, which would largely take care of that problem.

Destructible objects are already in other games.

[Rick50]

On 2/21/2023 at 1:33 AM, Bremspropeller said:

It's not close enough for me.

Don't forget about the F-100D, which I'd want to fly out of the Hoas and Da Nang.

Edit: Almost forgot about Phu Cat, the Spad and my two favourite chicks: Sandy and Misty.

 

Well, someone announced a Spad module several months back, with a youtube I think. And wasn't there an F-100 announcement back in summertime? Probably not the D variant you want... but baby steps: Vietnam was "dead in the water" not that long ago, and now seems to be a "greenlight GO!" once tech catches up!

 

I do think that CSAR missions on a 'Nam map would be really popular and gain popularity as people who didn't think about it discover it for themselves! The only real question is how long will we have to wait!

 

Phantoms will be ready by then, I'd expect!

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

2 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

Well, someone announced a Spad module several months back, with a youtube I think. And wasn't there an F-100 announcement back in summertime? Probably not the D variant you want... but baby steps: Vietnam was "dead in the water" not that long ago, and now seems to be a "greenlight GO!" once tech catches up!

 

I do think that CSAR missions on a 'Nam map would be really popular and gain popularity as people who didn't think about it discover it for themselves! The only real question is how long will we have to wait!

 

Phantoms will be ready by then, I'd expect!

My only concern would be the file size and performance of an accurately modeled region of Southeast Asia. Though, this has more to do with the willingness to optimize, we know they can do it and we know it'd be in big demand.

Hopefully, with the kind of demand it sees (which looks quite substantial even from my limited POV) would see huge efforts in optimization and such.

[Coxy_99]

 

[Bremspropeller]

13 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

Well, someone announced a Spad module several months back, with a youtube I think. And wasn't there an F-100 announcement back in summertime? Probably not the D variant you want

That's exactly the point I'm making: There are some more assets up the pipe than mentioned by the post I quoted. Yes, it's going to be a 100D.

Fun fact: You could also build an Armée de l'Air Algeria themed map around those two aircraft (Spad and Hun).

The Hun could also be used on the Syria map with the TuAF.

 

[79Au]

On 2/19/2023 at 2:57 PM, QuiGon said:

You are aware that Iran (Persian Gulf map) is a major user of the Tomcat as well as the Phantom up to this very day, unlike the US that has retired both aircraft? Also Turkey (Syria map) is also operating the Phantom.

And in regards to the Strike Eagle and current DCS maps:

 

 

Where did they take off from and land at? (will listen to the interview this weekend I promise, so I can understand what you mean) Because the way I see it the most important part is missing, between the two existing maps. From what I've gathered, most aircraft flew out of some major ex-Iraqi airbases. We don't have any Iraqi airbases, except H3, and AFAIK that one wasn't used much after 1991/2003. (Or after the famous air raid, but we can't fly that mission either) Right now we can't have Iran-Iraq scenarios because there's no Iraq on PG map. And we can't fly OIR/COIN missions because there's no Iraq on Syria map except abandoned H3. Everything's split between two maps or doesn't exist at all.

I know Iran use F-4 and F-14, but there wasn't any major combat in this area that's covered by the PG map. Even Bushehr wasn't important enough for ED, or it's in the lOw DeTaiL ArEa™ or whatever.

 

Iraq is such an important location, it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth that ED is pretty much sweeping it under the rug, and in my opinion, it's disrespectful to those who served there over the past 3 decades. The Gulf war was one of the largest air campaigns in history. Thousands of flight sim enthusiasts would like to reenact all the missions you hear about in interviews and podcasts.

That said, I can't wait for the Afghanistan map, SE and KW.  And thanks @Heinlein, yes, that's what I was trying to say. And I'm also saying it's 100% possible/feasible at least for those willing to trade down-low-eye-candy for history.

[Kalasnkova74]

On 2/27/2023 at 2:12 PM, Rick50 said:

Well, someone announced a Spad module several months back, with a youtube I think. And wasn't there an F-100 announcement back in summertime? Probably not the D variant you want... but baby steps: Vietnam was "dead in the water" not that long ago, and now seems to be a "greenlight GO!" once tech catches up!

 

I do think that CSAR missions on a 'Nam map would be really popular and gain popularity as people who didn't think about it discover it for themselves! The only real question is how long will we have to wait!

 

Phantoms will be ready by then, I'd expect!

A Southeast Asia map is a bigger ask then I think most realize.The “Vietnam War” was not just fought in Vietnam.

An SEA map will include the entirety of Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Gulf of Tonkin , Hainan Island and parts of southern China.  That’s a LOT of square footage people. 

[Stackup]

35 minutes ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

Hainan Island and parts of southern China.

Can they even make this area?

[Rick50]

44 minutes ago, Stackup said:

Can they even make this area?

If you mean "would they" in case of "politics", well, I dunno.

 

If you mean "is it physically possible to make a map of this region for DCS?" then yes, I think it's possible. But maybe not "playable" on todays gaming rigs. We almost certainly have to wait, for software optimisations, for our own gaming rigs to have the power to process such detail fast enough for fluid frames with lots of "units playing". The real question, IMO, is how long of a wait we'll have... might be a year, might be a decade, might be longer. But I'm hoping, and believing, that this may be possible in less than 5 years.

 

Though there have been times I've been quite wrong in the past!

[Stackup]

14 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

If you mean "would they" in case of "politics", well, I dunno.

More this.  Of course it's possible to model the map terrain and assets, etc, but I seem to recall hearing somewhere that that country in particular does not want anyone making games where you can fight a war over their territory even if it's just virtual.  This would cut the northernmost area off any possible Vietnam map and some of the eastern areas in the Gulf of Tonkin if this is the case.  I hope they can figure a way to do this both with good performance and proper land area because I think a properly fleshed out Vietnam with period correct assets(ground, AWACS, ships, radio comms, aircraft variants, etc.) would be of great benefit to DCS as a whole.  Time will tell I guess.

[Rick50]

I think the concern wasn't so much about China, but rather concerns about a possible conflict with a certain other island, located near the Taiwan straight perhaps?

 

But let's please get this back on topic of the Phantom and Heatblur, there are other threads in this forum discussing maps and such !!  if you do a search of threads I have posted in, you'll see many posts in discussions about possible future maps!

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

12 hours ago, 79Au said:

no Iraq on PG map

Not *yet*. The reason that map was renamed from its original name to "Persian Gulf" was twofold:

- to appease the "geographically challenged" part of the player base;
- to give themselves (ED I mean) the option to expand the map at some point in the future to include the actual Persian Gulf and indeed Iraq.

What we have now isn't a "Persian Gulf" map, but a Strait of Hormuz map, which was renamed (iirc even after release). Iraq isn't on there because it isn't relevant for the original scope for that map.
People seem to forget that...

[TheGhostOfDefi]

4 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Not *yet*. The reason that map was renamed from its original name to "Persian Gulf" was twofold:

- to appease the "geographically challenged" part of the player base;
- to give themselves (ED I mean) the option to expand the map at some point in the future to include the actual Persian Gulf and indeed Iraq.

What we have now isn't a "Persian Gulf" map, but a Strait of Hormuz map, which was renamed (iirc even after release). Iraq isn't on there because it isn't relevant for the original scope for that map.
People seem to forget that...

But iirc ED stated that there are no intentions of enhancing this map anytime soon.. Correct me if im wrong.

[Silver_Dragon]

5 minutes ago, TheGhostOfDefi said:

But iirc ED stated that there are no intentions of enhancing this map anytime soon.. Correct me if im wrong.

Correct, actually ED has no get any plan to update PG Map.

[MAXsenna]

But iirc ED stated that there are no intentions of enhancing this map anytime soon.. Correct me if im wrong.

That does not matter. People can, comment, hope and wish all they want. And it's not like ED has not changed their plans for benefits of us users in the past.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[79Au]

I'd happily fork over $50 (not $70) for a separate Iraq map. (ODS/Iran-Iraq war/"Shatt al Arab", don't care I'm desperate haha) Same for Gulf of Tonkin/Vietnam map, given the relevance of these theatres, to me it's absolutely puzzling that these products aren't in the works or already released, if the demand is so high.

Flying a Phantom over Iraq would be a dream come true, Same for KW, SE, Tomcat, Hornet, Huey, MiGs you name it, I'd buy every module that was deployed there during one of the conflicts. Actually I don't think there's a place that offers more possibilities for the modules we have, other than Iraq.

According to rumours the reason why the PG map is focused on SoH is ED had a deal with some aerobatics team from the UAE and decided to call it their middle east map for DCS. And I wouldn't even have a problem with that if it wasn't the last map from ED in this region.

BTW, I don't think it's off topic to talk about suitable maps for our beloved F-4 we're patiently waiting for.  (or the "reveal announcement"...)