Why is DCS in VR with 12th & 13th gen CPU, DDR5, and 4090 so applalingly slow?

[zildac]

1 minute ago, Gunfreak said:

As i said it gave me zero advantages. All it does for me is that I now have to start various open xr silliness and if I want to change between vr and flat(which I often do because I capture tracks or work in mission editor) I have to go into vr options and select or deselect vr in dcs. Instead of just starting the game in steam vr. Openxr is graphical since my problem isn't graphical but CPU, open xr does nothing. 

Not sure what silliness you are referring to re OpenXR/OC, but regarding your second point...Skatezilla App...VR OFF, done

null

 

[Gunfreak]

12 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

How many more people do you want have tell you that your expectations are simply NOT going to be met.

it’s worth bearing in mind that some of the visual options exist to future proof the system, ie can be turned on WHEN our PCs have the grunt to deal with the requirements.

As for not wanting to use OpenXR, that’s just cutting your own nose to spite your face.  There’s a very good guide on the forums to follow.  If you really can’t be bothered, probably worth going for a walk to cool off.

 

I've tired open xr several times. It had no effect.  Some people see. Think it's magical.  But for many people it has zero effect or even makes stuff worse.

When I used a 2080ti I lost a lot of performance using it. With my 3090 it just didn't do anything. Except had several steps needed to use or not use VR.

 

3 minutes ago, zildac said:

Not sure what silliness you are referring to re OpenXR/OC, but regarding your second point...Skatezilla App...VR OFF, done

null

 

I have no idea what you posted there 

[zildac]

I have no idea what you posted there 

Skatezilla app... Google. Option to start DCS in 2D mode.

[Gunfreak]

4 minutes ago, zildac said:

Skatezilla app... Google. Option to start DCS in 2D mode.

So yet another program needed for open xr?

Right now all I need to do is turn my my G2, start DCS and select start in steam vr if I want VR, or start without steam vr if I don't want vr.

Why should add any more programs or steps to thar when it gives me zero advantages. 

[zildac]

So yet another program needed for open xr?
Right now all I need to do is turn my my G2, start DCS and select start in steam vr if I want VR, or start without steam vr if I don't want vr.
Why should add any more programs or steps to thar when it gives me zero advantages. 

It has nothing to do with OpenXR. It offers an easy way to start DCS in 2D. Plus a host of other features. You appear to be looking for "problems", good luck on your quest.

[Gunfreak]

34 minutes ago, zildac said:

40 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

So yet another program needed for open xr?
Right now all I need to do is turn my my G2, start DCS and select start in steam vr if I want VR, or start without steam vr if I don't want vr.
Why should add any more programs or steps to thar when it gives me zero advantages. 

It has nothing to do with OpenXR. It offers an easy way to start DCS in 2D. Plus a host of other features. You appear to be looking for "problems", good luck on your quest.

I have an easy way to start dcs in 2d.

If you think its a good program.  You should say why instead of google it.

[zildac]

50 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

I have an easy way to start dcs in 2d.

If you think its a good program.  You should say why instead of google it.

Perhaps you need to do a little more reading before rejecting the suggestions you are given here, from people that are trying to help. You can lead a horse and all that....

[Gunfreak]

36 minutes ago, zildac said:

Perhaps you need to do a little more reading before rejecting the suggestions you are given here, from people that are trying to help. You can lead a horse and all that....

You recommend a program to make it easy to switch to 2d. 

Since I use steam vr it's already easy to switch to 2d. You are giving me a solution to a problem I don't have.

You then say it does other stuff too. Well fine. Then say what that is. You recommend it. Then saying Google it isn't helpful. 

If I recommend a restaurant and you ask: What do they serve? And I say Google it. Or read up on it. Isn't helpful.

 

[5ephir0th]

Whats the problem with OpenXR on 2D? You dont have to change nothing, i use OpenXR and just use two separate shorcuts, one for 2D and one for OpenXR (which the only thing it do is launching the game in SteamVR mode)

Thats on Standalone, you dont need Skatezilla, or enable/disable to go from one to another

[trevoC]

11 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

As i said it gave me zero advantages. All it does for me is that I now have to start various open xr silliness and if I want to change between vr and flat(which I often do because I capture tracks or work in mission editor) I have to go into vr options and select or deselect vr in dcs. Instead of just starting the game in steam vr. Openxr is graphical since my problem isn't graphical but CPU, open xr does nothing. 

I think it would be worth it for you to figure it out.

Everyones problem is CPU. OpenXR reduces this (cuts it almost in half for me). I also have a 3090 so we are in the same boat. I have no idea what you think you have to open (openXR silliness). I literally double click DCS, thats it.

If you don't want to open in VR, don't turn on your headset. No need to open DCS and switch. It will load directly to 4k or whatever.

At this point it seems like your complaints on performance are only exceeded by your unwillingness to fix them. If you have had zero advantages with openXR then you haven't installed it correctly or enabled it. IMO, You've been given a clear solution to improve your performance. OpenXR is far superior to steamVR, hands down even without any optimizations which are many in openXR.

11 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

So yet another program needed for open xr?

Right now all I need to do is turn my my G2, start DCS and select start in steam vr if I want VR, or start without steam vr if I don't want vr.

Why should add any more programs or steps to thar when it gives me zero advantages. 

This is exactly how it works with openXR also. OpenXR doesn't change this behavior. This is exactly how I start DCS for either VR or 2D. You don't need any of the above software. You simply do not understand OpenXR, thats fine. My advice, spend some time to understand it.

[trevoC]

Don't want VR, don't turn on your headset. Launch DCS the same. That simple. In fact simpler because you do not need to launch steam or steamVR.

with steam:
launch Win VR portal > launch steam > launch steam VR > launch DCS

OpenXR:
launch VR Poral (or not for 2D) > launch DCS

not sure how the first is simpler if that is your goal.

Plus, you have the added benefit of not having any steam software overhead..... less software.

[Mr_sukebe]

Has anyone else but the OP had no improvement from using OpenXR to:

 - enable upsampling via say FSR

 - enable fixed foveated rendering 

 - facilitated the use of VRnecksaver

 

[MacEwan]

I've had tremendous improvement from using OpenXR. Ofcourse it took some time messing with the settings to get it right, but it was well worth it.

[Devil-101]

Simply Said, the bottleneck is the new Intel CPUs as their base clocks are extremally low like 2.6Ghz, 2.2Ghz ….ETC. DCS doesn't understand that it can boost these processors nor understand which cores to use, in other words if your CPU is running DCS on less that 3.00 Ghz, then try disabling throttling in the Registry, disabling multithreading in the Bios, Increase processor power in Power management to 100%, Reduce the number of cores on the Intel CPU to the number of # of Performance-cores that you have, please note that these settings will help DCS but might have undesired effects on other programs, it took me a while to figure it out, so I hope it helps. on the other hand DCS should do something about them unable to utilize this type of technology correctly.

[SharpeXB]

20 hours ago, Devil-101 said:

Simply Said, the bottleneck is the new Intel CPUs as their base clocks are extremally low like 2.6Ghz, 2.2Ghz

Rubbish. Clock speed is not the only factor in performance. The new CPUs perform very well in DCS of course. 

20 hours ago, Devil-101 said:

DCS doesn't understand that it can boost these processors nor understand which cores to use, in other words if your CPU is running DCS on less that 3.00 Ghz

More rubbish, I can see mine running at it’s 5.8GHz boost when playing DCS

 

Maybe you should refrain from handing out advice

Edited December 27, 2022 by SharpeXB

[trevoC]

applications are not aware of boost clocks or speeds at all. An application does not have to be and isn't written to take advantage of these. This is handled by the CPU itself independent of software.

[NineLine]

On 12/23/2022 at 12:47 AM, Mr_sukebe said:

Has anyone else but the OP had no improvement from using OpenXR to:

 - enable upsampling via say FSR

 - enable fixed foveated rendering 

 - facilitated the use of VRnecksaver

 

I personally swear by OpenXR now, I used to see DCS dropping out with SteamVR and that is all gone plus a much smoother experience. I only have a RTX 2080 Ti and VR runs really decent for me. I cant understand why someone with a 3090 or (holy smokes) 4090 is having issues. But its best to share your settings for graphics and VR plus any settings outside of DCS, etc. This is the only way we can address issues, and @BIGNEWYis pretty good with helping people through VR troubles.

Thanks guys

[BIGNEWY]

I use a reverb G2 @ 100% and openXR 

I tweak my settings to target 45+ FPS in VR ( usually get 45 - 90 FPS depending where I am in the sky and how busy the mission is ) 

I use higher settings for single player in VR and lower settings for busy multiplayer in VR. 

I switch between 2D and VR with skatezillas tool, or shortcuts with  --force_enable_VR at the end of target line.

OpenVR is easy to setup and reduces the overhead associated with running steamVR  

[Pasquale1986]

In my view performance is affewcted by the combination of VR Headset and PC hardware. After 2.8 my FPS with the Oculus Rift were horrible. They dropped from constant 45 FPS to 25 to 35. As i wanted to upgrade hardware anyways, i switched to the Reverb G2 and i am back at 40 to 45 FPS in 2.8 despite the much higher resolution. And different settings have different consequences on different VR-rigs. E.G. OpenXR does not have a great performance impact on my system.

[Toddieie]

So I happened onto this thread looking for info on any VR updates in 2.8 or the Steam update today.  Have found NOTHING.  However...I have been reading about OPEN XR...  I started DCS a year ago with my first HMD...Valve Index(which is easiest and best to use, but cannot wear glasses)...and was blown away by the immersion of VR in DCS.  Started with F18, which took months just to learn.  I do not work...so...almost 100 percent of my time is on DCS and trying to overclock my 3 PC's.  Been a long year...but have now gone into Multiplaying and improving my own missions for Dogfighting.  Plus F16, F15, P51, and Huey...proficient in all...thanks to DCS Forums, Contributors, and Tube...I use HTC Vive Pro 2 mostly.

I tried... OpenXR...DID NOT work well for me.  I tried it several different times and it was tedious learning to download, install, and play with settings...get what you pay for.  I used it with Valve Index, HP Reverb, HTC Vive Pro 2, and Pimax 8kx.  VR seems better in SteamVR DCS 2.7 than with OpenXr, OpenBeta, or 2.8 either Beta...after all the time spent on tweaking Bios and Memory Timings for my Intel 12900k, Asus Z690 Extreme, DDR5 64gb 4x16 running 6000, and RTX 3080Ti...on 2 Pc's.  I also purchased South Atlantic but cant use it because it is BETA ONLY....which I do not use.  I also found that having 3 different DCS Games on same PC has somehow bleed-over and interferes with each other.  Have only 1 game on each PC...both SteamVR.

I am waiting for DCS to make use of Multi-threading...which is what new Hardware and Microsoft has gone to.  I have programs that make use of this and have seen SIGNIFICANT performance increase in these programs.  I am very patient...(try Memtesting for 3 mos).  Also, low Latency is critical to DCS.

I finally have no stuttering and almost 100% settings...dont use shadows and low weather in my Missions.  Also...all my planes are Cadillac Models...as I use IPD in VR at 35...which gives me better clarity.  My VR is very Pleasurable Flying Now.  Flying a F18 or F16.. low ..at night and listening to Rock-N-Roll...in the Persian Gulf Module... is Amazing.

[pastranario3]

En 27/12/2022 a las 22:28, Toddieie dijo:

So I happened onto this thread looking for info on any VR updates in 2.8 or the Steam update today.  Have found NOTHING.  However...I have been reading about OPEN XR...  I started DCS a year ago with my first HMD...Valve Index(which is easiest and best to use, but cannot wear glasses)...and was blown away by the immersion of VR in DCS.  Started with F18, which took months just to learn.  I do not work...so...almost 100 percent of my time is on DCS and trying to overclock my 3 PC's.  Been a long year...but have now gone into Multiplaying and improving my own missions for Dogfighting.  Plus F16, F15, P51, and Huey...proficient in all...thanks to DCS Forums, Contributors, and Tube...I use HTC Vive Pro 2 mostly.

I tried... OpenXR...DID NOT work well for me.  I tried it several different times and it was tedious learning to download, install, and play with settings...get what you pay for.  I used it with Valve Index, HP Reverb, HTC Vive Pro 2, and Pimax 8kx.  VR seems better in SteamVR DCS 2.7 than with OpenXr, OpenBeta, or 2.8 either Beta...after all the time spent on tweaking Bios and Memory Timings for my Intel 12900k, Asus Z690 Extreme, DDR5 64gb 4x16 running 6000, and RTX 3080Ti...on 2 Pc's.  I also purchased South Atlantic but cant use it because it is BETA ONLY....which I do not use.  I also found that having 3 different DCS Games on same PC has somehow bleed-over and interferes with each other.  Have only 1 game on each PC...both SteamVR.

I am waiting for DCS to make use of Multi-threading...which is what new Hardware and Microsoft has gone to.  I have programs that make use of this and have seen SIGNIFICANT performance increase in these programs.  I am very patient...(try Memtesting for 3 mos).  Also, low Latency is critical to DCS.

I finally have no stuttering and almost 100% settings...dont use shadows and low weather in my Missions.  Also...all my planes are Cadillac Models...as I use IPD in VR at 35...which gives me better clarity.  My VR is very Pleasurable Flying Now.  Flying a F18 or F16.. low ..at night and listening to Rock-N-Roll...in the Persian Gulf Module... is Amazing.

Hello, do you have the efficiency cores working? or just the physical ones? do you overclock the 12900?

[j0nx]

This graphics engine is so old and tired that frankly I am surprised it works as well as it does. Firing up FS2020 and then DCS is an appalling difference and makes DCS look like something from the early 2000s which imo may not be entirely off base. I think and have thought for a while that these guys need to stop all work on modules until they can get a modern graphics engine overhaul out the door. It should be their ONLY priority moving forward imo.

Edited January 7, 2023 by j0nx

[Timmy51]

It's impossible to move all resources to engine development since it requires a different type of knowledge base comparing to coding the game logic (FM, AI, etc.). They also have 3D modelers, sound engineers (if it's not out-sourced).

[trevoC]

Please get the secretary to immediately start working on vulkan engine and dlss.

I'm guessing that all available resources (all members of the graphics engine team) are already all working on that project.

[Lange_666]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:41 PM, j0nx said:

Firing up FS2020 and then DCS is an appalling difference and makes DCS look like something from the early 2000s which imo may not be entirely off base.

FS2020 is all about eye-candy, the rest is just way below par.
I take the crappy AI and ATC behavior as an example, it's just plain horrible for a game that calls itself a simulation.   

Edited January 10, 2023 by Lange_666