need track replay Too long in the grove

[GillyG]

Hi all,

Can’t find any posts about this and have watched numerous tutorials with not much progress. 
 

Have been using Banklers case 1 recovery trainer with the F18 and have been hitting all the numbers from the break right through to actually trapping. Literally 7/7 for all phases. 

However the only problem is I’m consistently getting 22secs in the groove even when I follow the ICLS needles. 
 

spacing at the downwind is 1.2nm turn exactly at the stern of the ship, heights and bank through the base and turn to final (groove) all hitting the numbers. But for the life can’t figure out why my groove time is so long. 
Can’t find any info to figure it out so though I would post here asking for any suggestions. 

Have literally read and watched every video and tutorial I can find on the net and still can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong. 
 

Any help would be great. 
 

 

 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

I do not think it is a bug, but please include a short as possible track replay example of your attempt and we will take a look. 

you can save a track replay during the debrief window

thank you

[Foka]

Probably you turn base a bit to late, or do it to slow.

[MrReynolds]

Still maintain this is the best (hope it's the right one)!!

  

[TimRobertsen]

6 hours ago, GillyG said:

Hi all,

Any help would be great. 
 

What's the ship speed, and wind speed?

For simple/easy training, set the shipspeed to 20, and no wind.

You might be flying very light, that will give you a slightly lower airspeed.

Good trap-weight is 33.000lbs (it's the max trap/groove weight, I believe)

 

As Foka said, you might be starting the approach-turn too late.

[Habu_69]

Using Moose Airboss, if I begin crosswind a beat or 2 after "Paddles contact"  my groove time is right at 18 sec.

[Willdass]

From my experience with the Bankler's trainer is if you wait more than a few seconds after your abeam grade shows, you will be too long in the groove. Be ready to turn right when that message appears. I always allow for a quick glance at the ship to verify that I see the round down. So: grade appears, quick glance, turn. all in 1-2 sec. 

See my video below if you like, recently got my first 75/75.

I have made no changes to aircraft weight, ship speed or wind.

 

[GillyG]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

Looks like I may of been turning a little too late. To my eye I now make the turn at what is probably the LSO station or when the left DDI is level with the stern of the ship. Only a few seconds really does make a difference. Different sight picture to learn in the turns now, but my groove times are a lot better. 
 

Cheers

[Nealius]

10 hours ago, Habu_69 said:

Using Moose Airboss, if I begin crosswind a beat or 2 after "Paddles contact"  my groove time is right at 18 sec.

This is my observation as well. Anticipating the paddles call I can get about 16~17sec. Without the paddles call I don't have enough visual acuity (monitors not being real eyeballs) to identify any specific part of the ship other than the superstructure. 

[norman99]

3 hours ago, Nealius said:

Without the paddles call I don't have enough visual acuity (monitors not being real eyeballs) to identify any specific part of the ship other than the superstructure. 

I have the same issue, so don't even look at the ship any more. I simply turn when the TCN bearing on the HSI (which I have on the R DDI) is exactly 90⁰ from the downwind track.

Works for me, I consistently get 17s grove lengths using this technique. 

As mentioned above though, you have to be accurate, turn EXACTLY at the calculated 90⁰, even +/- 3⁰ can make a big difference. 

[GillyG]

7 minutes ago, norman99 said:

I have the same issue, so don't even look at the ship any more. I simply turn when the TCN bearing on the HSI (which I have on the R DDI) is exactly 90⁰ from the downwind track.

Works for me, I consistently get 17s grove lengths using this technique. 

As mentioned above though, you have to be accurate, turn EXACTLY at the calculated 90⁰, even +/- 3⁰ can make a big difference. 

Are you setting the tacan course 90 to the left and when you cross it you make your turn eg BRC: 353 TCN Course: 263 make the turn when you cross the course line

[TimRobertsen]

1 hour ago, GillyG said:

Are you setting the tacan course 90 to the left and when you cross it you make your turn eg BRC: 353 TCN Course: 263 make the turn when you cross the course line

You could do that, but there's no need, just start the turn when the Tacan-symbol on the HSI is aligned with the D or E in MODE.

[norman99]

@GillyGNo, I set the TCN course to the BRC. For the 90⁰ bearing, I just do a quick calculation in my head.

eg. If BRC is 067⁰, I set the TCN course to 067⁰, set the HDG bug to the reciprocal, 247⁰, and then turn when the TCN bearing on the top left of the HSI reads exactly 157⁰.

Edited November 18, 2022 by norman99

[GillyG]

17 hours ago, norman99 said:

@GillyGNo, I set the TCN course to the BRC. For the 90⁰ bearing, I just do a quick calculation in my head.

eg. If BRC is 067⁰, I set the TCN course to 067⁰, set the HDG bug to the reciprocal, 247⁰, and then turn when the TCN bearing on the top left of the HSI reads exactly 157⁰.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions! Using the TACAN at 90° seems to put me in the groove everytime, even though its quite a bit before the stern of the carrier

A little confusing when all documents and tutorials say to turn when you see the round down of the ship, but this will always make your groove times excessive (well for me anyway) which from what I  can gather can have a serious flow on effect for those in the pattern behind you.

Whatever works I guess!

 

 

 

[Nealius]

There is one situation where turning when you see the round-down is valid, but I can't remember. It all depends on carrier speed and natural wind speed. Sometimes your abeam distance too IIRC.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Nealius

[CBStu]

A question for RL. Why is groove time so important? What would be caused by an extra 3-4 second long groove.

[Tholozor]

3 hours ago, CBStu said:

A question for RL. Why is groove time so important? What would be caused by an extra 3-4 second long groove.

Spacing for the aircraft behind you, and those behind them that are waiting to depart the marshal stack. Everybody is consuming fuel.

[CBStu]

I can see that for sure especially if you are several planes back.