correct as is MAVERICK in SMS page missing ripple option when LAU-88 is loaded

[St4RgAz3R]

From yesterday's changelog 16 Dec : 

Fixed: Unable to ripple 2 Mavericks when LAU-88 launcher is used. 

Not only not fixed but now when the LAU-88 rack is loaded on the aircraft the ripple option is missing from the SMS page. With the LAU-117 the option is still there and ripple works as before. 

Two tracks below of both the LAU-88 and LAU-117 loaded

lau 117 ripple.trk lau 88 no ripple button.trk

[BIGNEWY]

43 minutes ago, St4RgAz3R said:

Not only not fixed but now when the LAU-88 rack is loaded on the aircraft the ripple option is missing from the SMS page. With the LAU-117 the option is still there and ripple works as before. 

Hi, 

this is correct, we have no evidence the LAU-88 can be used for ripple. 

[Moonshine]

Funny, then why is this in the changelog?

so at the very least 2 should be able to be shot at once, yet for that we need a ripple option…

I assume you will need lau88 on both, left and right wing for this to work as firing 2 mavs from the same station seems rather stupid.

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Moonshine

[_SteelFalcon_]

There is a specific manual that mentions ripple function for the Maverick briefly and all it says in there is that ripple is limited to 2 stations (so let's say mavs on lau-88 on station 3 and 7)
so max ripple is 2 missiles, 1 from the left wing, 1 from the right wing. no matter if lau-88 or lau-117 is used. Hint: 1-451

Also, on that same page in said manual, there is specific mention on what the STEP button on the MFD does, and the current implementation is also incorrect in that regard

now sadly we're missing the ripple option on the SMS page when lau-88 is loaded. and please, get rid of the correct as is tag, the feature is in the changelog...

Edited December 17, 2022 by _SteelFalcon_

[St4RgAz3R]

So i guess we were reading the changelog wrong. If i get this right they mean that the fix is to NOT be able to fire in ripple with LAU-88 loaded not the other way around. Makes no sense to me but if there is no evidence to support that it can indeed be used for ripple then it is what it is i guess. Maybe SteelFalcon could provide the actual evidence and this changes 

[_SteelFalcon_]

Well the evidence is referenced. One just has to look at the correct manual, i‘m pretty sure if i was able to find it, ED surely will too

[Moonshine]

30 minutes ago, St4RgAz3R said:

So i guess we were reading the changelog wrong. If i get this right they mean that the fix is to NOT be able to fire in ripple with LAU-88 loaded not the other way around. Makes no sense to me but if there is no evidence to support that it can indeed be used for ripple then it is what it is i guess. Maybe SteelFalcon could provide the actual evidence and this changes 

so if we read the manual wrong, why is this point even listed? ripple mavs with lau88 has never worked in DCS so far, the feature was never implemented and now it should be fixed? would one fix a thing that can not have been broken because it was never there in the first place and then list it in the changelogs as "fixed"? seems very unlogical.

newys claim that there is no evidence is completely wrong. the only time you cant shoot 2 mavs from Lau88 at the same time is when you only have one station with mavericks equipped. 
I dearly hope that this gets looked at and not lightly brushed off as "need evidence" or "correct as is". 

no manual says you cant ripple mavs from lau88 specifically. only says you have to have mavs equipped on both wings in order for ripple to work. (cant shoot 2 missiles from the same station at the same time)

[St4RgAz3R]

20 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

so if we read the manual wrong, why is this point even listed? ripple mavs with lau88 has never worked in DCS so far, the feature was never implemented and now it should be fixed? would one fix a thing that can not have been broken because it was never there in the first place and then list it in the changelogs as "fixed"? seems very unlogical.

newys claim that there is no evidence is completely wrong. the only time you cant shoot 2 mavs from Lau88 at the same time is when you only have one station with mavericks equipped. 
I dearly hope that this gets looked at and not lightly brushed off as "need evidence" or "correct as is". 

no manual says you cant ripple mavs from lau88 specifically. only says you have to have mavs equipped on both wings in order for ripple to work. (cant shoot 2 missiles from the same station at the same time)

Yep as i said makes no sense to me either. I thought the same thing that's why i made the post because i believed that the fix was intended to make the 88 rack to be able to fire in ripple as it didn't work before. That's the logical thing to assume from the changelog. But reading on bignewys response made me wonder if that's really the case. I also hope they 'll take a look on this and not let it linger forever like other bugs, like the one with VIS mode for example.  

[Moonshine]

sent 9L and Newy a PM with all the documents needed. fingers crossed...

[_SteelFalcon_]

How is this still marked as correct as is?

[Sarge55]

Could be because it’s Sunday and he’s entitled to the odd day off, eh?

[Moonshine]

i did get an answer yesterday that it has been forwarded to the team. now to the usual, sit and wait patiently

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Moonshine said:

i did get an answer yesterday that it has been forwarded to the team. now to the usual, sit and wait patiently

We had sent your info to the team, from what I am hear back this is not evidence but conjecture. We are wary on spending any time of things that can be viewed in a similar light to the 4 HARM function a while back. If any more evidence is found, feel free to send our way. Thanks. 

PS, I will not discuss the sent documentation here for obvious reasons. If you have questions about it, please stick to DMs. 

[Moonshine]

At the very least it gets looked at. SMEs will surely be able to answer that.

The current implementation is equally just a conjecture as nowhere it says that this function is limited to lau117…all it says is that you need mavs on both wings since it fires one per side and a maximum ripple of 2 missiles total.

what i dont get about your statement, why would this be listed in the patchnotes if now we need to bring up evidence to even support the feature YOU listed in the patch as „fixed“, as in what exactly did you fix? It wasnt there before the patch in the first place, how could it possibly have been broken?

Edited December 18, 2022 by Moonshine

[paura19]

Hm hm
And I can't shoot both. Everytime only one Maverick goes off the pylon. I am struggling with Ripple fire 2 years.
What is wrong? A aircraft or my procedure of use Ripple fire.

Edited December 19, 2022 by paura19

[Falconeer]

10 hours ago, paura19 said:

Hm hm
And I can't shoot both. Everytime only one Maverick goes off the pylon. I am struggling with Ripple fire 2 years.
What is wrong? A aircraft or my procedure of use Ripple fire.

 

Did you set ripple amount of 2 in the SMS?

[_SteelFalcon_]

11 minutes ago, Falconeer said:

Did you set ripple amount of 2 in the SMS?

Check his screenshot. Yes he did

[Falconeer]

Yes i see it now 

[ColinM9991]

The biggest question that has been asked, and what still makes absolutely zero sense, is why this was present in the changelog if it's not actually supported. There was a conscious decision made to not only include that in the changelog but to also push that changelog out following a peer review of the contents (if changelogs are peer reviewed, that is). Maybe it's under the wrong module? 

This makes it all the more confusing that the players need to send evidence. Some clarification of that changelog entry would definitely be appreciated.

Edited December 20, 2022 by ColinM9991

[Lord Vader]

The phrase used in the changelog refers to the way it was reported. It was initially a bug that caused another issue in the module. It's technically fixed by removing the option.

The LAU-88 pylon doesn't support "quick draw", only the LAU-117 pylon. This is according to our sources, of course. Feel free to send your documented evidence to @BIGNEWYand we'll review this if necessary.

[ColinM9991]

1 minute ago, Lord Vader said:

The phrase used in the changelog refers to the way it was reported. It was initially a bug that caused an issue in the module. It's technically fixed by removing the option.

The LAU-88 pylon doesn't support "quick draw", only the LAU-115 pylon. This is according to our sources, of course. Feel free to send your documented evidence to @BIGNEWYand we'll review this if necessary.

Ah, that makes sense. The bug in that case was the original inclusion of ripple

 

Thanks for clarifying

[TEOMOOSE]

On 12/20/2022 at 8:16 AM, Lord Vader said:

The phrase used in the changelog refers to the way it was reported. It was initially a bug that caused another issue in the module. It's technically fixed by removing the option.

The LAU-88 pylon doesn't support "quick draw", only the LAU-115 pylon. This is according to our sources, of course. Feel free to send your documented evidence to @BIGNEWYand we'll review this if necessary.

Hey!

Which LAU-88 do we have, the LAU-88/A or the LAU-88A/A. They are similar but not the same. The A/A is an improved version of previous. Either way the LAU-88 (/A) or the LUA-88 A/A both can be boresighted. 

Why do you say LAU-115 when its the LAU-117/A ? - its rather confusing.



The reason im asking which LUA-88 is modelled here because you guys had it implemented correctly at first. My assumption is that we have "had" the LUA-88 A/A. Which has a boresight memory setting. It provides the same boresight correction to all missiles on the same launcher. Meaning you only have to boresight one maverick on each pylon.

if however we do have the LUA-88 A/A launcher specifically then its missing features.

Edited January 2, 2023 by TEOMOOSE

[Lord Vader]

On 1/2/2023 at 9:54 AM, TEOMOOSE said:

Hey!

Which LAU-88 do we have, the LAU-88/A or the LAU-88A/A. They are similar but not the same. The A/A is an improved version of previous. Either way the LAU-88 (/A) or the LUA-88 A/A both can be boresighted. 

Why do you say LAU-115 when its the LAU-117/A ? - its rather confusing.



The reason im asking which LUA-88 is modelled here because you guys had it implemented correctly at first. My assumption is that we have "had" the LUA-88 A/A. Which has a boresight memory setting. It provides the same boresight correction to all missiles on the same launcher. Meaning you only have to boresight one maverick on each pylon.

if however we do have the LUA-88 A/A launcher specifically then its missing features.

 

There's no confusion here. When I said "Quick Draw" it's the other term used to "ripple" Maverick missiles. We never said boresighting to all missiles in the rack wasn't possible. That's is something correctly modelled to the specified LAU-88 type rack we have. 

And it's LAU-117 not 115, that was a typo. I've corrected, thanks.