reported earlier igla missiles way way too weak. Tested

[csdigitaldesign]

Why are the Iglas SOOOO bad? In real life the Iglas are suppose to have a 5km range... yet I can't get any lock until I'm half that range. I also found that while they do have a very small explosive charge.. it takes TWO at least to kill a Huey.. forget ever shooting down a Hind or something! It's not consistent with the ground manpads Iglas at all. I mean at 2km I might as well be using my guns! They do more damage! What's the point of even putting this missile on the aircraft? I was looking forward to being able to try and defend myself vs air threats, at least vs helis. Why is the Igla so nerfed on this helicopter? is 5km too much range? It just isn't making any sense based on real world statics. Don't give us an Igla to use ED if you are going to make it worthless.

Edited January 10, 2023 by csdigitaldesign
typos

[razo+r]

 

 

 

[BIGNEWY]

threads merge. 

The Igla damage has been reported please be patient and we will have a fix out hopefully for the next patch. 

thanks

[AeriaGloria]

On 1/10/2023 at 3:36 AM, csdigitaldesign said:

Why are the Iglas SOOOO bad? In real life the Iglas are suppose to have a 5km range... yet I can't get any lock until I'm half that range. I also found that while they do have a very small explosive charge.. it takes TWO at least to kill a Huey.. forget ever shooting down a Hind or something! It's not consistent with the ground manpads Iglas at all. I mean at 2km I might as well be using my guns! They do more damage! What's the point of even putting this missile on the aircraft? I was looking forward to being able to try and defend myself vs air threats, at least vs helis. Why is the Igla so nerfed on this helicopter? is 5km too much range? It just isn't making any sense based on real world statics. Don't give us an Igla to use ED if you are going to make it worthless.

 

In 1980s, Soviets found R-60M to only lock on helicopter with exhaust suppressors up to 600m. In game the Igla is set to same seeker strength. Even if slightly more in reality, that is not too far. In my experience approximate ranges are 

Mi-24/8: 5 km from rear, 2 km from side, 1 km from front 

Huey/Gazelle/Apache: 2 km from behind, 1.5 km to side, less then 1 km in front

This also applies to Mistral with its exact same seeker strength. So All helicopters with IR missiles in DCS have this characteristic. 

[Hobel]

Yes against helicopters the range is not far but that's fine.

One has for it in the ka50 other things the gun and the ATGM.

Against jets the Igla has already up to 4-5km range which is excellent.

[some1]

If anyone's interested, here's a short track presenting AI CH-47 that survived:

- three hits with IGLA

followed by:

- six hits with Vihkr

followed by:

- multiple hits with 30mm HE

I put him on fire - twice - yet he was still able to pull manoeuvres that put Ka-50 agility to shame. 

I don't think IGLA warhead damage is our only problem here... 

immortalCH47.trk

[Flappie]

Igla is one problem, and devs are working on it. DCS AI helicopters resistance to damage is another one, and ED is aware of the issue.

I did some testing here:

The CH-53 is about to get fixed.

I guess the global AI helicopter issue will be addressed at some point.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Flappie

[ak22]

Hopefully the damage get fixed soon this BS3 update seems bit rushed out.

[Hobel]

from the Russian forum, the damage will probably be increased.

[Zergburger]

On 1/23/2023 at 3:04 PM, Hobel said:

from the Russian forum, the damage will probably be increased.

hey Hobel, just curious if you have any update on this... tired of hitting fast mover with 2+ igla's only to show no signs of damage.

[Hobel]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Zergburger:

hey Hobel, just curious if you have any update on this... tired of hitting fast mover with 2+ igla's only to show no signs of damage.

At the moment I don't know anything more than what it says.

 

Which one exactly? single player or MP mission?  Track of it?

[Zergburger]

On 3/15/2023 at 3:37 AM, Hobel said:

At the moment I don't know anything more than what it says.

 

Which one exactly? single player or MP mission?  Track of it?

let me see if i can collect a track for you. most of mine have been on longer multiplayer sessions, and i know you guys hate dealing with 40+minute tracks

Edited March 21, 2023 by Zergburger

[BalticDude]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:04 AM, Hobel said:

from the Russian forum, the damage will probably be increased.

Does anyone know if ED ever did anything about the Igla damage not doing anything even on PvP servers?

[okopanja]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:20 AM, BalticDude said:

Does anyone know if ED ever did anything about the Igla damage not doing anything even on PvP servers?

As far as I know, there was one change in damaged model, and things got improved. Still you can not hope to kill a target with a single shot.

I made some "trolling" attacks on GS server some 2-4 weeks ago by sneaking undetected near Kutaisi. On average you need 2 to shoot down eagle (got one igla, got finished with vikhr), tomcat (survives single igla very well), warthog (took 2 iglas and crashed), hornet (can be killed by a single but usually 2 are needed). Sometimes even one works. E.g. the following did not work, but some 2-3 minutes later the dude did hit ground and kill got attributed.

4

Edited May 25, 2023 by okopanja

[BalticDude]

Thanks for the update and cool video! Hopefully the damage models for the planes, AI and the Igla get much needed attention soon.

[TheIrishAce]

Can anyone confirm if this issue has been patched previously?

I have recently hit an AI F5 with 3 Igla's directly only for it to shrug them off an fox2 me.
It's crazy to me that 4 igla missiles are needed for a chance at splashing a single bandit or other enemy helo.

To me this issue is still present.

[Gryzor]

Igla weak damage is still present in 2.9. 4 hits to shot down a Hind....

When it would be fixed?

[RPY Variable]

https://streamable.com/5aft7v

Shot 2 Igla's to an F-14, and he went happily back home. Today I must have shoot and hit 10 different aircraft with at least 2 Iglas. I was only able to get kills for 5.

Maybe one went down with only one Igla only (F-18) out of 12 "encounters".

+-80% of the cases are like this F-18 screenshots. Hit, debris, and the aircraft continue.

I get that the missile if not an apocalyptic weapon, but it is design to shot down military aerial crafts. I get that in real life maybe 10%, 20%, 30% or 40% of the cases it doesn't shoot down an aircraft, but I doubt that 90% it doesn't manage to down and aircraft..

Add to this that you need like 4 Vikhr to shot down an AH-64 if you hit it from the front and in my  ka-50 I go down with one hellfire.

v2.9.4.53990

[Nealius]

Having been personally hit by Iglas in both the F-16 and F/A-18 multiple times, I don't see an issue with the small warhead modeling. In the majority of cases I'm damaged enough to require ejection within a few minutes after being hit; usually fuel leak. I suspect this is an issue with AI damage modeling moreso than it is with the Igla itself.

Edited May 19, 2024 by Nealius

[Flappie]

The Igla missile has a small warhead (1 kg), which means smaller damage. For maximum damage, fire at the shortest range possible, for the fuel inside the missile will help causing damage. Longest range = no more fuel, less damage.

2 hours ago, Nealius said:

I suspect this is an issue with AI damage modeling moreso than it is with the Igla itself.

That is the case for helicopters. The Mi-8 tail is almost indestructible in DCS (reported), and it is often directly hit by the Igla missile. The tail acts as a shield.

I tested the Igla against the Hornet and it was pretty efficient.

Edited May 19, 2024 by Flappie
typo, rephrasing

[RPY Variable]

9 hours ago, Nealius said:

Having been personally hit by Iglas in both the F-16 and F/A-18 multiple times, I don't see an issue with the small warhead modeling. In the majority of cases I'm damaged enough to require ejection within a few minutes after being hit; usually fuel leak. I suspect this is an issue with AI damage modeling moreso than it is with the Igla itself.

 

A pretty effective "small warhead". And I'm talking 100% pvp no AI.

I get that it may not be a 100% effective. But having to shoot twice every time it doesn't map with reality. In most of the cases, you need to impact twice to shot and F-18... an F-14 will most likely survive. A-10 will certainly continue flying. The chance of taking down an aircraft with one Igla hit is +- 20%, which in my opinion, 20% should be more close to the chance of flying away, they are made of papier mache.

A HE 20mm projectile weights +- 130 grams, and Igla warhead (which is more sophisticated) weights 9 times more... If Igla had the damaging power of 9 HE impacts, we would not be having this discussion. I know that it is not an apples to apples comparison, but argumentatively it is much more valid and closer to reality than "I think it is well modeled."
 

[Flappie]

EDIT: sorry, the text was gone; I had to rewrite my post.

This video shows a tail hit. As I said, the Mi-8 tails is almost indestructible in DCS (at least for AI units). But other helicopters are affected too (see the results of my test below). I tested this after discovering that my Igla missiles would always go for the Mi-8 and Mi-24 tail, which really acts as a shield for them.

What you see in the table is the number of 30 mm round hits needed to cut off the tail of an AI helicopter.

When tails won't be made of concrete anymore, there are high chances that the Igla missiles will be much more useful against the helicopters.

Edited May 19, 2024 by Flappie

[Flappie]

By the way, I started testing frontal shots on helicopters and some have concrete pilots that won't die, which does not help either.

[Nealius]

On 5/20/2024 at 3:55 AM, RPY Variable said:

A pretty effective "small warhead". And I'm talking 100% pvp no AI.

Effective against that AH-1, which is a very small helicopter. Not equivalent to a large fighter. Generalization cannot be made from one very specific example.

If you intend this example to be used when discussing effectiveness against DCS helos, and only helos, not other aircraft, then your point stands.

Edited May 21, 2024 by Nealius