noted Lack of female pilot models?

[Northstar98]

On 3/19/2023 at 12:55 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Personally the only time when I could see the pilot models being an issue, is with side-by-side cockpits and then especially in helicopters. There I'd love to see female pilot models too - otherwise I don't really care...
I'd much rather have female pilot voices, but as Bignewy said there has been some progress on the amount of female voices in the game.

At the moment we have:
- male US (Wags and the new supercarrier pilot voice)
- male UK
- male RU
- male FR
- male CN

Hopefully at some point in the not too distant future we can pick a female pilot voice from a drop-down menu in the Options-screen
 

Personally, I couldn't agree more. I feel like including more and diversifying voices (not only for players, but the AI) would be a far more worthwhile improvement compared to pilot bodies.

I'm not necessarily against female pilot bodies (and truth be told I almost certainly won't notice), I just feel that right now there's bigger 3D modelling fish to fry, whereas radio communications has been longing for improvement for years and diversifying them would be a marked improvement.

Especially when (with English communications), your pilot voice sometimes drastically changes depending on who you're talking to - you get one voice that's there for most of the time, then a drastically different voice when talking to the supercarrier ATC system and another when requesting air - pretty immersion breaking.

Then when using the radio communications with the AI in multiplayer, where each player has exactly the same voice. Then there's the AI who also don't have many variations meaning on busy SP missions several different aircraft have the same voice (and given that the AI last I checked was awful at radio etiquette - continuously stepping over each other) and it becomes very difficult to tell who's talking if you didn't catch their call sign.

I'd definitely appreciate a selection of voices, which should absolutely include female voices - certain other civilian focused sims do it, as does the other F-16 sim, I don't see why DCS shouldn't.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Northstar98

[upyr1]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:04 AM, some1 said:

Only in the last few years they accepted first women for training, who are graduating by now. (https://www.iwoaw.org/women-aviation-news/advocacy/after-a-nearly-80-year-hiatus-russian-women-can-be-fighter-pilots-and-aircraft-technicians-again/)

So for the time period and airframes simulated in DCS, no female pilots in Soviet/Russian aircraft is pretty much as accurate as it could be. 

As for the F-16, the aircraft still doesn't have any pilot body in the cockpit, so a female model is probably very low on priority list. 

 

How about a female pilot fir the I-16? 

[some1]

3 hours ago, TheFreshPrince said:

Well you have dozens of liveries for each plane that you can choose from and that will even be displayed to others in multiplayer. So if I want to change my pilot, and we're only talking about small parts of the whole model, that's now a problem? I'm no developer and I don't need this to be implemented.

If you only want a livery with a black pilot in a red tailed Mustang, then you can have that now, it's already in the sim.

But you've asked about changes to the models themselves and separate control over pilots skins, and this is something that requires modifications in all model sources across DCS, plus core changes in the sim. It's just the nature of the software itself. A small tweak may seem easy, but a game-wide solution suddenly involves a team of developers.

2 hours ago, upyr1 said:

How about a female pilot fir the I-16? 

Were there any? That's a serious question, I don't know. There were several female regiments in the Soviet Air Force during the war, but none of them flew I-16. Maybe some individual pilots, lost to history...

Anyway, that's not even ED model, you have to petition the author of Polikarpov module for DCS.

[SharpeXB]

Honestly, why does this matter? There are already a fair number of female voices in scripted campaigns and such, to the degree this seems authentic. But you can hardly see any of the pilot models let alone that the flight gear makes determining this even harder. The vast majority of DCS players are probably male and prefer seeing a male pilot in their plane. Sure it’s great that a lot of games let you choose your character, maybe someday DCS gets this too. But it doesn’t seem like it should be a high priority. 

[upyr1]

15 minutes ago, some1 said:

If you only want a livery with a black pilot in a red tailed Mustang, then you can have that now, it's already in the sim.

But you've asked about changes to the models themselves and separate control over pilots skins, and this is something that requires modifications in all model sources across DCS, plus core changes in the sim. It's just the nature of the software itself. A small tweak may seem easy, but a game-wide solution suddenly involves a team of developers.

Were there any? That's a serious question, I don't know. There were several female regiments in the Soviet Air Force during the war, but none of them flew I-16. Maybe some individual pilots, lost to history...

Anyway, that's not even ED model, you have to petition the author of Polikarpov module for DCS.

I posted that in the octopus section. I do know voice mods would be cool. 

 

[F-2]

 It was once so! I guess lung cancer got her.

[buceador]

On 3/19/2023 at 5:15 PM, TheFreshPrince said:

Well you have dozens of liveries for each plane that you can choose from and that will even be displayed to others in multiplayer. So if I want to change my pilot, and we're only talking about small parts of the whole model, that's now a problem? I'm no developer and I don't need this to be implemented.

 

But I think it's a necessary feature anyway to increase realism. And it's also about fairness. You just have to implement this at some point anyway. So why not set it on the agenda right away? In contrast to big developments like multithreading, dynamic weather, etc., this is a relatively small amount of work, at least in my guess. If changing to a dynamic pilot model instead of a fixed one for each aircraft would be easier, then sure why not. I don't think anyone demands to have this within this year, but to say "if someday we think about this"... Well...

And as you say, the longer you wait and build stuff as it is right now, the more stuff you will have to revisit later. Which will make it more and more unlikely to ever have this feature. 

Bignewy has already said, I think in this thread, that he will put the suggestion to the developers...

[CarbonFox]

On 1/30/2023 at 6:56 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi 

We have had this conversation many times on the ED forums, 

We would also like to see more female pilots in DCS, we already have female voice overs on the super carrier, wingman 4 on the AH-64D is a female voice ect. and hopefully in the future we will see a model. 

 

 

 

 

Speaking on the Supercarrier voices, will you be adding a male voice over as well eventually? Something that can be randomized mission to mission or be influenced by mission date.

Edited March 24, 2023 by CarbonFox

[Mars Exulte]

On 3/19/2023 at 4:04 PM, F-2 said:

 It was once so! I guess lung cancer got her.

 I like how many of those assets are like... right over there (points at DCS today)

[AvgeekJoe]

I like the idea of female pilot and soldier and first responder models.  Professionally dressed, of course.  The US military allowed women to fly in combat starting in 1993.

[ToastyBanK3nobi]

Don´t get me wrong here... BUT who says that the Pilotmodel actually identifies as a male? - I mean we have a completely overblown discussion about something and yes i refer to the pilot as a thing, because it isn´t breathing or feeling or something in between... I don´t get the point why we have to be inclusive everywhere? This is a FICTIONAL work - it is astonishing how this whole ordeal gets everywhere in these days.

Sorry if my opinion isn´t liked, but it is fatigueging...

 

p.s. sorry if my english isn´t the best, it´s not my native

 

FLY SAVE PILOTS O7

[buceador]

Just now, ToastyBanK3nobi said:

Don´t get me wrong here... BUT who says that the Pilotmodel actually identifies as a male? - I mean we have a completely overblown discussion about something and yes i refer to the pilot as a thing, because it isn´t breathing or feeling or something in between... I don´t get the point why we have to be inclusive everywhere? This is a FICTIONAL work - it is astonishing how this whole ordeal gets everywhere in these days.

Sorry if my opinion isn´t liked, but it is fatigueging...

 

p.s. sorry if my english isn´t the best, it´s not my native

 

FLY SAVE PILOTS O7

It's not about inclusivity, it's about immersion and realism, especially if you produce videos like GR for example (or me!)

[ToastyBanK3nobi]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb buceador:

It's not about inclusivity, it's about immersion and realism, especially if you produce videos like GR for example (or me!)

I get what you want and why... but we are talking about a game, not a video software aren´t we? - and in this game you can see nothing but a lump of something that could be a man or something else... right? it is never wearing anything other then a flysuit (i know the ww2 planes are different - but there were definately no women on fighterplanes in ww2) - and the only thing that makes is possible to tell that the model is a man is its adams apple??? you get were i´m going? if we talk about genders this would be genderprojection in times like today... you can´t asume a gender by looking... thats my point here...

[buceador]

5 minutes ago, ToastyBanK3nobi said:

I get what you want and why... but we are talking about a game, not a video software aren´t we? - and in this game you can see nothing but a lump of something that could be a man or something else... right? it is never wearing anything other then a flysuit (i know the ww2 planes are different - but there were definately no women on fighterplanes in ww2) - and the only thing that makes is possible to tell that the model is a man is its adams apple??? you get were i´m going? if we talk about genders this would be genderprojection in times like today... you can´t asume a gender by looking... thats my point here...

Helicopter pilots are clearly visible, ground staff, deck crew, all clearly visible, this is not a crusade it is merely a suggestion!

[ToastyBanK3nobi]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb buceador:

Helicopter pilots are clearly visible, ground staff, deck crew, all clearly visible, this is not a crusade it is merely a suggestion!

I think you don´t get my point - you CAN´T tell which gender it is, cause you can´t ask. the only thing you do is asuming... strangely most of the time it is asumed someone is male if the person looks like it... and no one cares... but if someone asumes a person looks like a woman, everybody freaks out... sorry but i think this is hypocrisy...

if ED would add women, they would have to include every available gender and then tell me how do you want to diff between them? just by an option in the settings menu?

and as many befor me said already this isn´t done in a second nor two... this could take years to develop for every plane out there...

Edited March 28, 2023 by ToastyBanK3nobi

[buceador]

8 minutes ago, ToastyBanK3nobi said:

I think you don´t get my point - you CAN´T tell which gender it is, cause you can´t ask. the only thing you do is asuming... strangely most of the time it is asumed someone is male if the person looks like it... and no one cares... but if someone asumes a person looks like a woman, everybody freaks out... sorry but i think this is hypocrisy...

if ED would add women, they would have to include every available gender and then tell me how do you want to diff between them? just by an option in the settings menu?

and as many befor me said already this isn´t done in a second nor two... this could take years to develop for every plane out there...

 

Ha! There are ONLY 2 genders! I don't care which gender they really are as they are not real, we are talking about visual realism in the SIM, nothing more, this is nothing to do with GAMEPLAY per se, simply the finished result of the video.

[MAXsenna]

Ha! There are ONLY 2 genders! I don't care which gender they really are as they are not real, we are talking about visual realism in the SIM, nothing more, this is nothing to do with GAMEPLAY per se, simply the finished result of the video.

Two "genders"? Ask a farmer.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

On 3/28/2023 at 10:55 AM, ToastyBanK3nobi said:

they would have to include every available gender

“Every available gender”? please don’t go there…

[MAXsenna]

“Every available gender”? please don’t go there…

They did....

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[AvgeekJoe]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:46 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Discussed this again with the team, if someday we offer multiple pilot models we'll certainly consider it then. 

thank you

I think the time for multiple pilot models that reflect all of humanity is now please, respectfully.

 

I'm male and not changing my gender anytime soon.

Edited September 8, 2024 by AvgeekJoe

[BIGNEWY]

3 hours ago, AvgeekJoe said:

I think the time for multiple pilot models that reflect all of humanity is now please, respectfully.

 

I'm male and not changing my gender anytime soon.

 

Please understand we are not a huge company, it takes months of work for pilot models, adding more choices is certainly something we want to do, but we also have to decide what is priority regarding new art. 

thank you 

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

19 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please understand we are not a huge company, it takes months of work for pilot models, adding more choices is certainly something we want to do, but we also have to decide what is priority regarding new art. 

thank you 

Is there any possibility of using Heatblur's already done humans in other modules? (I anticipate that the answer is that they can't be cross pollinated but have to ask). 

[Hawkeye60]

 

[SharpeXB]

I get the impression that everyone responding to this topic is male.

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

11 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I get the impression that everyone responding to this topic is male.

I wonder what percentage of DCS (or any combat flight sim / game) players are female? It would be nice to have more and maybe by being inclusive in representing females in the game, might attract more.

Edited September 9, 2024 by II.JG1_Vonrd