reported AGM-154A JSOW broken

[101st Lonestar AUT]

Happened in our squadron training:

- Four f-16 dropping 8 JSOW similarly. (single realease, nearly same position, one bomb after the other)
- Half of them hitting the target perfectly, the other half was behaving like brake chutes, soaring down and detonating in the mountains 10 miles before targets.

Tacview:
Reason found - Energy bleeding out because of vertical "wobbling"

null

BR

Edited February 2, 2023 by 101st Lonestar AUT

[Moonshine]

Might be the same issue as reported here?:

 

[101st Lonestar AUT]

Sounds similar but we did not drop pairs (tandem).
Just launched two single JSOWs.

Also the Tread is from beginning of 2022 and still not fixed.
(I mean JSOW is not the most important - I understand...)

Thanks for the hint.

[Moonshine]

Yeah back then it was most noticeable when dropping pairs, dont know about single drop in short succession. Either way something is borked as some seem to land way short for no apparent reason besides their strange behavior causing speed loss.

this plus the very little damage it does made me avoid the use of jsows since their implementation

Edited February 2, 2023 by Moonshine

[BIGNEWY]

Please always include a track replay example that we can compare. 

thank you

[Moonshine]

17 hours ago, Moonshine said:

Might be the same issue as reported here?:

 

for this one there is tracks, for the other one, maybe @101st Lonestar AUTcan provide the one from his mission (or replicate it)?

[_SteelFalcon_]

I tested it again with different settings and once on CAUC and once on Syria as i did originally for the tandem bug report

interestingly, i was not able to reproduce the issue on CAUC. but on Syria, out of 4 JSOW, 1 falls 5-7nm short, 1 falls juuuuust shy and 2 hit reliably.

i did test both tandem options, as well as single drops.

see tracks attached

JSOW_single.trk JSOW_tandem_line.trk JSOW_tandem_parallel.trk JSOW_tandem_line_Syria.trk JSOW_tandem_parallel_Syria.trk JSOW_single_syria.trk

Edited February 2, 2023 by _SteelFalcon_

[_SteelFalcon_]

Anything? Still missing tracks?

[Moonshine]

bump

[void68]

Am 2.2.2023 um 12:04 schrieb Moonshine:

this plus the very little damage it does made me avoid the use of jsows since their implementation

 

So what AG ordnance do you use with Mavericks broken, CBU105 broken, JSOWs broken?  Not so much left despite dumb WWII era bombs...

[Moonshine]

Yup, sad state of the viper currently.

[VarZat]

7 hours ago, void68 said:

So what AG ordnance do you use with Mavericks broken, CBU105 broken, JSOWs broken?  Not so much left despite dumb WWII era bombs...

Whats broken about the maverick

[_SteelFalcon_]

5 minutes ago, VarZat said:

Whats broken about the maverick

You mean beside it going for street lamps instead of the hot tanks next to it?

anyway, let‘s not derail this thread. I‘m still hoping the jsow gets looked at.

[void68]

Am 28.2.2023 um 17:41 schrieb VarZat:

Whats broken about the maverick

Boresighting was messed up with latest stable release. However it seems it has been fixed again in the actual beta but I can't confirm (as I usually don't play betas... usually but nowadays I hardly find any software that isn't in lifetime beta stage if applying last century's standards...)

[Moonshine]

To get back to the subject; any chance @BIGNEWYcould check the supplied tracks regarding the JSOWs?

[AstonMartinDBS]

On 2/2/2023 at 6:53 PM, _SteelFalcon_ said:

I tested it again with different settings and once on CAUC and once on Syria as i did originally for the tandem bug report

interestingly, i was not able to reproduce the issue on CAUC. but on Syria, out of 4 JSOW, 1 falls 5-7nm short, 1 falls juuuuust shy and 2 hit reliably.

I watched/replayed your six tracks (current OB 2.8.2.35759 installed here).

At the three tracks on Caucasus each JSOW reached the target area, but some missed the targets close.

On all three Syria-tracks I observed the same issue: 1 of 4 JSOWs ran out of energy and dropped ~5 NM too early.

[_SteelFalcon_]

55 minutes ago, AstonMartinDBS said:

I watched/replayed your six tracks (current OB 2.8.2.35759 installed here).

At the three tracks on Caucasus each JSOW reached the target area, but some missed the targets close.

On all three Syria-tracks I observed the same issue: 1 of 4 JSOWs ran out of energy and dropped ~5 NM too early.

yeah that's what i found weird too. how does it work on one map but not the other, and why does it only affect 1 jsow of the whole payload i wonder

[Lord Vader]

Hi @101st Lonestar AUT and all repliers.

We will be conducting a few tests on this because there are some inconsistencies.

Thank you for your patience. 

 

[dave76]

i follow all the steps to release jsow in STP MODE , i ahve JIZ max range, vv aligned , steerpoint selected, i shoot when relese cue intersect fpm BUT jsow does not hit TGT .........IT JUST MISS.......do not get why

[razo+r]

Can you attach a track? 

[BIGNEWY]

please include a track replay example so we can check it. 

thank you

[Dr_Pavelheer]

1) Did you give them time to align?

2) Is the steerpoint altitude correct? By default waypoints in DCS are high above the ground

[Moonshine]

18 minutes ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

1) Did you give them time to align?

2) Is the steerpoint altitude correct? By default waypoints in DCS are high above the ground

this.

and also there is still this issue: 

 

[BIGNEWY]

we have tested but were unable to reproduce. If you are still seeing an issue, please supply a track based on current OB.

thank you

 

[TobiasA]

Am 19.5.2023 um 20:06 schrieb BIGNEWY:

we have tested but were unable to reproduce. If you are still seeing an issue, please supply a track based on current OB.

thank you

 

I can confirm the wobble. The wobble starts at the same distance towards the target with the munition entering multiple sharp and hard turns, which leads to a severe energy loss.
JSOW_double_release.trk

And I also can confirm that they have a tendency to fall short even if released inside the WEZ:

JSOW_double_release_take2.trk

Two of four did pull up behind me to more than 1000ft above my altitude, nearly stalled and then fell short.

So, there are two issues:

- When released from high altitude and sufficient energy, they have a tendency to wobble and do weird maneuvring but they usually hit (but often without doing damage)

- When released from medium altitude, they have a 50/50 chance to make it to the target, and sometimes pull up until they nearly stall, followed by falling short.

 

Released at 5800 ft, climbs to >7800.
Be sure to not slow down after release and bank away, you might get rammed by your own JSOW.