New better free Plane(s)

[shagrat]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Dragon1-1:

Say "thanks" all you want, but right now, a person in the same position I was in when I first downloaded DCS World might, just like me, end up saying "no, thanks" instead. Look at negative reviews on Steam, that's about the only place you'll hear from people who tried and didn't like it.

That's very likely because they expected something like World of Warplane and are hit with a ultra realism study sim.

I am 99% sure, someone that is a potential DCS customer, for real, does research what he's getting into - not just the game, where to get it, what details are modeled, but also what hardware (controllers, HOTAS etc.) he likely needs to have or invest in to enjoy it.

I've seen multiple friends I got into DCS (with modules like the Huey, Hornet, A-10C) and investing into a HOTAS and head tracking, still back out after a couple months, because it was "not enough quick action". They didn't need free trials or free modules and still figured it isn't for them, so why on earth should a bored steam player that stumbled upon a DCS ad on the steam store suddenly be interested in a full fidelity study sim, if he never cared about it before? And if he did, he sure is the type to inform himself and yes, click on links to more information.

[Beirut]

I hate to be too direct, but...

 

What part of "Two free planes + two free maps + 50 planes, helicopters, and maps available for free trials"  is insufficient?

 

There comes a point where vehicular semantics and wishing for a pony has to take a back seat to common sense and reality. There is absolutely positively overwhelmingly zero impediment to anyone with two brain cells figuring out how to access DCS in such a manner as to have a good understanding and enjoyment of it.  

 

 

[shagrat]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Beirut:

I hate to be too direct, but...

 

What part of "Two free planes + two free maps + 50 planes, helicopters, and maps available for free trials"  is insufficient?

 

There comes a point where vehicular semantics and wishing for a pony has to take a back seat to common sense and reality. There is absolutely positively overwhelmingly zero impediment to anyone with two brain cells figuring out how to access DCS in such a manner as to have a good understanding and enjoyment of it.  

 

 

^this 

...and someone that needs to be dragged and coaxed into "trying it" won't likely stay for long, no matter if there is one or five more free full fidelity aircraft.

Edited March 6, 2023 by shagrat

[Dragon1-1]

2 minutes ago, shagrat said:

...and someone that needs to be dragged and coaxed into "trying it" won't likely stay for long, no matter if there is one or five more free full fidelity aircraft.

I'm telling you about my own experience, it's not about being "dragged and coaxed", it's about getting drawn into the experience. Again, you can only make a first impression once. Back when I first tried it, DCS did not seem like it was worth the money. That was my first impression, and the baseline haven't improved since. If I didn't have Black Shark 1 off some bundle my father bought at random, I would have forgotten about it, and I was turned off that by video tutorials (no missions back then, thankfully this was fixed) and Ka-50s weird autopilot. So, I ended up giving DCS a pass for years. Of course, there weren't free trials back then, but I likely wouldn't have known, because I'd have put it away before digging deep enough to find out they were a thing. Marianas, as pretty as they are, would not have helped, either. In other words, the demo was a dismal failure, in that it didn't get me to buy anything. It's not so hard to understand, unless you've been here for so long you're incapable of imagining someone starting from zero.

Why am I here at all? VR. That is the only answer. DCS supported VR, the other sim did not. When I started getting serious about VR, DCS was the only option for combat flying, so I went with it. Paid modules were an immensely smoother experience. My initial approach was "well, it was kind of crap last time, but it's pretty and it does VR, I want some pretty VR, maybe it won't be so bad". Fully expected to keep flying the other sim. Didn't because of VR, and the fact they changed their forums to something even more hideous than IPS. Plus, well, DCS is actually good when you have a full module.

If I had a good impression with a simple trainer (like the TF-51D, which was fun, but I didn't care much for WWII), this would likely have turned out differently. Sounds like you guys just don't care about ED's ability to actually attract new audiences.

[SharpeXB]

36 minutes ago, Beirut said:

There is absolutely positively overwhelmingly zero impediment to anyone with two brain cells figuring out how to access DCS

Trouble is the typical video gamer has just a single brain cell…

[schmiefel]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I don't think T-45C team used any non-original assets

Well, that's the part where todays wishful thinking starts to become the new truth especially in the internet or to state it different: too many people dont't know what they don't know - and even express this lack of knowledge publically as an argument.

[Beirut]

4 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

 

 

Sounds like you guys just don't care about ED's ability to actually attract new audiences.

 

 

 

Fortunately you are here with purity of spirit to compensate for our egregious lack of empathy. I for one thank you.

 

I will make her call me Dragon 1 tonight. 

[Top Jockey]

My 2 cents:

1. No, I didn't buy modules / got to be a client of ED, DCS because of the free TP-51 or the Su-25T.

Although I think they are a pleasant complement / additional bonus, and indeed i've spent some hours using the Su-25T sights / TV screen to use its several different guided munitions... but that's the kind of stuf I like.

2. About the 2nd question, I believe it can simultaneously happen more than just 1 of your options, so I didn't vote.

 

I got to be a client because:

- first I bought the MiG-21bis and got very well impressed

( already knew LOMAC and highly appreciated it - the best graphics so far in any combat flight sim )

- then after a while, wanted to fly the F-15 and MiG-29 again, so I bought FC3

- then the Hornet came out ... with JHMCS and all the bells and wistles, and couldn't let that pass

- the rest is history ...

 

[Evoman]

47 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

This is problematic in several ways

First that creating a full fidelity module, even one that seems similar to an existing one, specifically to just give away for free is likely to be cost prohibitive. 
Second that video game players don’t need trainer aircraft since all the real world reasons these are necessary don’t exist in a game. You can go straight to flying an F-16 if that’s what excites and motivates you. A new player would probably think the trainer is too dull. 

Uh, doesn't DCS already feature just that with the TF-51D. Which by the way is the only good free aircraft that does a good job representing WWII aircraft. And I doubt that affects P-51 sales negatively. And how is investing in something that would be considered a better marketing approach be cost prohibitive?  That investment will pay for it's self for years to come with the increased interest and sales of more advanced modules. So according to you any company spending money on marketing is a misuse of resources?

I highly recommend watching this interview with ED staff about this very subject @ 1:27:55min. Even they understand why that the current lineup of free aircraft are not the best at attracting new people. And that they have already been looking into how to better bring in new people.

 

 

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Sounds like you guys just don't care about ED's ability to actually attract new audiences.

DCS is not for everyone. No matter what they do to market it, 99.9999% of the video gamer customer base doesn’t have the aptitude or desire to play a complex sim game like this. And you can’t force them to either. They can try the game for free and there’s plenty of content out there in social media to show people what this game is like. You don’t need a free download to see what the game involves, YouTube is full of videos and tutorials that reveal everything about it. If anything the real purpose of the free trial is just for people to test it on their PC system or controllers.

[Ashayar]

Well, I started with the SU-25T, and I play with a lot of planes, but still love my Frogfoot!

 

I didin't know anything about how to handle a plane before trying DCS, but I don't think another plane would be easier to learn in my case.

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

And you still don't get it. It's not about what you can theoretically get. It's about first impressions. Particularly for Steam users casually stumbling on the sim. All the things you list are not in the picture for that crucial first moment. They might be for someone who heard about DCS and wants to look for it, not for someone who saw an ad and wants to see what's behind it. 

Say "thanks" all you want, but right now, a person in the same position I was in when I first downloaded DCS World might, just like me, end up saying "no, thanks" instead. Look at negative reviews on Steam, that's about the only place you'll hear from people who tried and didn't like it.

Well there are several things that go into it.

Does ED feel they need a higher influx of new players or is the current trickle/flood enough for them.

We have no idea about how well DCS is doing,  it seems like it might be doing good and growing,  but we don't know. Only ED.

I agree the two free planes aren't great. Ideally there should be a way to make the A4 official yet free. It will fix several problems. 

1. Great plane that shows the capabilities of DCS.

2. Being official. It can be used on all servers with no problems. 

 

But I also think there should be a free two seater plane. The TF51 should be made into a working two seater. That way DCS players can take friends for  joy ride even if they don't have a joystick/HOTAS. Especially if they use VR, just sitting there while the 51 does some acrobatics would be quite fun and probably a good selling point for someone to invest in a HOTAS.

[Beirut]

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

DCS is not for everyone. No matter what they do to market it, 99.9999% of the video gamer customer base doesn’t have the aptitude or desire to play a complex sim game like this. And you can’t force them to either. They can try the game for free and there’s plenty of content out there in social media to show people what this game is like. You don’t need a free download to see what the game involves, YouTube is full of videos and tutorials that reveal everything about it. If anything the real purpose of the free trial is just for people to test it on their PC system or controllers.

 

Amen!

 

Can you imagine the same person who needs their hand ever so gently held to cross the road to get to DCS actually getting there... and then trying to figure out the A-10C? 

 

 

"It's got buttons! It's got switches! AHHHHH!!!!"

 

 

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, Evoman said:

Uh, doesn't DCS already feature just that with the TF-51D

The TF-51D is almost identical to it’s fighter version plus the modern modules are much more complex. ED already answered this question earlier, the T-38 is only visually similar to the F-5, systems wise it’s different. 

[erniedaoage]

I bought the ka50 and p51d before there was the word "world" involved in DCS. And i bought it because i watched videos about the 2 modules and saw all those buttons and switches! 

[SharpeXB]

13 minutes ago, Ashayar said:

I didin't know anything about how to handle a plane before trying DCS, but I don't think another plane would be easier to learn in my case.

That was me too. I knew completely nothing about modern aircraft (had only played a WWI sim) before getting the A-10C on a Steam sale. I read the manual on my iPhone and figured it all out. So I get a chuckle out of people needing such hand holding. 

[Evoman]

2 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

But I also think there should be a free two seater plane. The TF51 should be made into a working two seater. That way DCS players can take friends for  joy ride even if they don't have a joystick/HOTAS. Especially if they use VR, just sitting there while the 51 does some acrobatics would be quite fun and probably a good selling point for someone to invest in a HOTAS.

The need for a free two seater is another big need that has come up here and in other past conversations for this very reason. And that is part of the reason why the AT-38B Talon has been coming up as a good candidate.

[SharpeXB]

12 minutes ago, Beirut said:

Can you imagine the same person who needs their hand ever so gently held to cross the road to get to DCS actually getting there... and then trying to figure out the A-10C? 

When I read these things I get the impression of people trying to force their friends to play DCS who really just don’t want to

[cfrag]

55 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Sounds like you guys just don't care about ED's ability to actually attract new audiences.

Uh. Well, allow me to ask pointedly:

Do you think you know better than ED who their audience is and how to attract them? 

If not, then we simply do not agree with your opinion and ours is as valid or invalid as yours. No need to get accusatory. 

[SharpeXB]

47 minutes ago, Evoman said:

I highly recommend watching this interview with ED staff about this very subject @ 1:27:55min.

What he’s talking about there is the success of the free trials, especially the lockdown free trial event. I didn’t hear anything about creating a new module from the ground up to specifically be a free plane in the game. He did agree the Frogfoot is kinda unappealing though. But again the solution for that is free trials of all the other aircraft. 

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

What he’s talking about there is the success of the free trials, especially the lockdown free trial event. 

 

That was, hands down, unbelievably cool. Everyone is locked up, hunkered down, and pissed off. And then ED says "How would y'all like to fly some planes?"

 

Absolutely Five-Star! 

[Rudel_chw]

4 hours ago, Beirut said:

There is a point where one should step back and just say "Thanks".

+1 … fully agree 

[Nodak]

Some day in the future it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to dump the FC-3 plane pack as free.  They really won't fit in the line up well for full fidelity servers with fleshed out planes having radios, nav aids, and such.  Servers can always cherry pick which ones they'll allow.  Pretty sure they've already made their monies on these. 

[Rudel_chw]

8 minutes ago, Nodak said:

Some day in the future it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to dump the FC-3 plane pack as free. 

The people who paid for their FC3 module will enjoy this, see all the newbies get it free while they had to purchase it like every regular consumer … is getting free stuff so important?

[Ashayar]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

That was me too. I knew completely nothing about modern aircraft (had only played a WWI sim) before getting the A-10C on a Steam sale. I read the manual on my iPhone and figured it all out. So I get a chuckle out of people needing such hand holding. 

I think that even if you are passionate, sometimes it can be hard, because it is complex, and it needs a lot of time. 

That's why I understand more @Evoman's idea than just changing the base plane. Time to make a SU25UB ED