Patch notes discussion 10th March - 12th April 2023

[Hillman]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

It should work, oculus is even in the priority chain for MT with OpenXR next in line

I am not a fan of having to force parameters, in my opinion we do to much of it and it complicates matters for users who are not tech savvy. 

but good to hear its smooth for you

Unfortunately it does not work for me. This is confirmed by the logfiles (included) and the Virtual desktop overly showing Oculus RT for ST and OpenVR for MT.
ST: 2023-03-12 10:39:25.751 INFO    VISUALIZER (17900): LAUNCH IN VR OculusRift: OculusRift : Oculus Rift S
MT: 2023-03-12 10:41:34.732 INFO    VISUALIZER (4304): LAUNCH IN VR OpenXR: SteamVR/OpenXR : oculus

And in OpenVR I am placed at wing-height in the VR hangar and everything flickers a lot during loading.

This is how I start DCS:
"C:\Program Files\Virtual Desktop Streamer\VirtualDesktop.Streamer.exe" "C:\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe"

 

Grateful for any help here.

 

dcsST.log dcsMT.log

[BIGNEWY]

8 minutes ago, Hillman said:

This is how I start DCS:
"C:\Program Files\Virtual Desktop Streamer\VirtualDesktop.Streamer.exe" "C:\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe"

I dont have oculus myself sorry but someone who does said this 

"MT works via native client with both AirLink and VD. Make sure you launch dcs via VD with "Launch Game..." feature"

[Paladin1cd]

I posted to make sure it wasn't just a few of us, and it appears that it isn't. The whole missile launch warning not working is really game breaking, especially for us A-G and SEAD/DEAD guys. Any way of getting a hotfix for that? It just is to frustrating to think you have defeated a missile to only find out it smacks you out of the sky moments later. It seems to be Vipers and Hornets (haven't heard of other platforms, if you know of any, please list it in this thread) that are affected. MT is working amazingly well, but I just don't really want to play with such a major piece of equipment no longer functioning properly. 

[Gryzor]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

It should work, oculus is even in the priority chain for MT with OpenXR next in line

I am not a fan of having to force parameters, in my opinion we do to much of it and it complicates matters for users who are not tech savvy. 

but good to hear its smooth for you

And what about SteamVR native HDMs like index? Performance in Index is not good under OpenXR

Edit: 2D works perfectly in MT (120 Hz Vsync and GPU bound even in big cities and 4K). But with OpenXR (Valve Index) I have a lot of spikes, constantly CPU bound message, even at motion smoothin (40Hz) and low pixel density. In SP with Valve Index (native steamVR) I don´t have any stutters even in big cities, constant 40fps with motion smoothing.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Gryzor

[BIGNEWY]

35 minutes ago, Paladin1cd said:

I posted to make sure it wasn't just a few of us, and it appears that it isn't. The whole missile launch warning not working is really game breaking, especially for us A-G and SEAD/DEAD guys. Any way of getting a hotfix for that? It just is to frustrating to think you have defeated a missile to only find out it smacks you out of the sky moments later. It seems to be Vipers and Hornets (haven't heard of other platforms, if you know of any, please list it in this thread) that are affected. MT is working amazingly well, but I just don't really want to play with such a major piece of equipment no longer functioning properly. 

please remove any unofficial mods or edits if you have any and run a slow repair or verify if steam of DCS 

thanks

24 minutes ago, Gryzor said:

And what about SteamVR native HDMs like index? Performance in Index is not good under OpenXR

Edit: 2D works perfectly in MT (120 Hz Vsync and GPU bound even in big cities and 4K). But with OpenXR (Valve Index) I have a lot of spikes, constantly CPU bound message, even at motion smoothin (40Hz) and low pixel density. In SP with Valve Index (native steamVR) I don´t have any stutters even in big cities, constant 40fps with motion smoothing.

 

Try higher Hz a go and disable motion smoothing, see what you get. 

[Baldrick33]

27 minutes ago, Gryzor said:

And what about SteamVR native HDMs like index? Performance in Index is not good under OpenXR

Edit: 2D works perfectly in MT (120 Hz Vsync and GPU bound even in big cities and 4K). But with OpenXR (Valve Index) I have a lot of spikes, constantly CPU bound message, even at motion smoothin (40Hz) and low pixel density. In SP with Valve Index (native steamVR) I don´t have any stutters even in big cities, constant 40fps with motion smoothing.

 

Not sure if this works for the Index but with my WMR Reverb I got a lot of stuttering with motion reprojection running using the native WMR OpenXR. I switched it to use the SteamVR runtime (under Developer option in SteamVR settings) and it is nice and smooth now with MT.

[unlikely_spider]

12 hours ago, JIGGAwest said:

- windows game mode on

- xbox game bar active

Should these things be off?

[Hillman]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

I dont have oculus myself sorry but someone who does said this 

"MT works via native client with both AirLink and VD. Make sure you launch dcs via VD with "Launch Game..." feature"

That is exactly how I launch DCS and it does not work. Either  manually right-click VD and "Launch game..." or using shortcuts like I described. The result is exactly the same.

One important point might be that I´m using Pico4 which somehow emulates Oculus. No problem in ST or any earlier DCS versions.

I think a parameter to force Oculus would be good here.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Hillman

[Paladin1cd]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

please remove any unofficial mods or edits if you have any and run a slow repair or verify if steam of DCS 

thanks

Try higher Hz a go and disable motion smoothing, see what you get. 

Didn't work. Still got smoked by a SA5 without any warning. 

[BIGNEWY]

6 minutes ago, Paladin1cd said:

Didn't work. Still got smoked by a SA5 without any warning. 

thanks we are looking into it

 

[Gryzor]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

please remove any unofficial mnullods or edits if you have any and run a slow repair or verify if steam of DCS 

thanks

Try higher Hz a go and disable motion smoothing, see what you get. 

Mods are removed. It seems to me that OpenXR under Native SteamVR HMD (like valve index) causes some sort of lag or stuttering.

Let me give to you my testes:

VR-MT 80 hz (without motion smoothing), sustained. but with a lot of stuttering (spikes cause fluctuations 79 Hz - 80 Hz). Attach DCS log and some pictures. All CPU Bounded (doesn´t make sense)

VR-MT 60 hz (with motion smoothing, Index at 120 Hz), sustained. but with a lot of stuttering (spikes cause fluctuations 59 Hz - 60 Hz). Attach some pictures. All CPU Bounded (doesn´t make sense)

2D (120 fps, 4K, Syria Big City, and GPU-bounded everytime - except the instant I take the picture -). TOTALLY SMOOTH AS SILK in 2D

dcs.log

Edited March 12, 2023 by Gryzor
Pciture add

[JasBird]

Very happy with MT boost performance in VR. Is it just me, or does the flying feel more responsive and smoother? Only tested F-5, Mirage 2000C and Viggen. More CPU power to the flight model?

Haven't played for over a month, before the MT patch, so maybe just forgotten how nice it is to fly in DCS?

 

[NIGHTHAWK1]

My 2 cents worth.   I have been playing around with settings since MT released.  I now have 90fps in VR.   AMAZING    In syria, free flight, instant action, f18,  I9-12900k,RTX3090, 64g ram.  Edit:  Most of my DCS system settings are set to high.

Only one question??  I do not want to mess with much so help here would be greatly appreciated.  My in pit screens are darker, DDI, UFC,  What do I change to get them brighter like before.  Yes I have brightness nobs all the way up.  It is just one setting in DCS or OTT that might affect this.  Any Suggestions??

YES   MT is the greatest thing since sliced bread, etc, etc.  It is the biggest improvement in a single update that I have ever seen in 30 plus years of flight simming

Thank you DCS/ED

Edited March 12, 2023 by NIGHTHAWK1

[roadczar]

Fantastic job ED, DCS VR Multithreaded is awesome. I was able to bump my SS from 1.0 to 1.5 and it is buttery smooth. 4090/13900KS/64gb/Pimax8ks. Running everything maxed out except for MSAA and SSAO which are turned off. 

Any MSAA setting is causing major performance choppiness.

Edited March 12, 2023 by roadczar

[Hillman]

1 hour ago, NIGHTHAWK1 said:

My 2 cents worth.   I have been playing around with settings since MT released.  I now have 90fps in VR.   AMAZING    In syria, free flight, instant action, f18,  I9-12900k,RTX3090, 64g ram.  

Only one question??  I do not want to mess with much so help here would be greatly appreciated.  My in pit screens are darker, DDI, UFC,  What do I change to get them brighter like before.  Yes I have brightness nobs all the way up.  It is just one setting in DCS or OTT that might affect this.  Any Suggestions??

YES   MT is the greatest thing since sliced bread, etc, etc.  It is the biggest improvement in a single update that I have ever seen in 30 plus years of flight simming

Thank you DCS/ED

Have you tried to adjsut Gamma under Options/System? I can't say I have noticed any difference with MT here, but it varies a bit from module to module. Luckily it's easy to change midflight.

[Gunfreak]

Even with 60-80FPS i kept getting stutter and lag in VR, I did a complete reinstall of windows and dcs. After spending the day getting windows up and running again. I tested the same mission. 

I get 50-80 fps, but continous CPU bound. And stuttering. 

There is a some fighting going on about a dozen ww2 tanks and guns firing. But I don't feel that is enough to warrant such a bad performance. 

I have i9 9900k @ 4.8ghz, 3090, 64gig ram and using M2 drive.

Except for much faster mission loading, I have no difference in gameplay performance between TM and not MT. And FPS is not related to the lag and stuttering at all. If I decrease the graphics, FPS go up but same stuttering. 

[JIGGAwest]

5 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

Should these things be off?

not if you want to use the optimizations for AMD X3D chips. you need latest BIOS and Chipset drivers.

I also suspect other recent AMD ZEN3 and ZEN4 see benefit in this as well, but just a theory.

[Wali763]

18 hours ago, JIGGAwest said:

Maybe not directly related to just MT.

But, curious if you have the latest:

Ryzen master

Chipset drivers

Motherboard BIOS

- windows game mode on

- xbox game bar active

Hi.

I have Ryzenmaster. But since I cant oc my 5800x3D, I dont use it. Chipset drivers were updated 1 month ago. Mobo Bios is a bit dated, 03/22. Did not update, since there were no desireable new things to potentially upset a working system.

No gamemode, no gamebar. See no use in those.

As I wrote above MT brings very little change for me. Maybe 1ms GPU frametime. In CPU-limited scenarios MT helps a bit, but stutters still occur.

[BIGNEWY]

44 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Even with 60-80FPS i kept getting stutter and lag in VR, I did a complete reinstall of windows and dcs. After spending the day getting windows up and running again. I tested the same mission. 

I get 50-80 fps, but continous CPU bound. And stuttering. 

There is a some fighting going on about a dozen ww2 tanks and guns firing. But I don't feel that is enough to warrant such a bad performance. 

I have i9 9900k @ 4.8ghz, 3090, 64gig ram and using M2 drive.

Except for much faster mission loading, I have no difference in gameplay performance between TM and not MT. And FPS is not related to the lag and stuttering at all. If I decrease the graphics, FPS go up but same stuttering. 

Ensure hotplug is disabled. Otherwise it is a known issue for some people and in our FAQ, the team will investigate it further

thanks

[Sr.]

I will say, while like others I didn't realize much gain on simple missions but, I DO see a great deal of improvement in the more complex campaigns and another carrier based playground I built last year.

 

Back then, I really had to limit the amount of assets on the carrier deck to avoid horrible stutter. Last night, I added several more static aircraft and set an AWACS to taxi and take off. Not a single stutter.

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Ensure hotplug is disabled. Otherwise it is a known issue for some people and in our FAQ, the team will investigate it further

thanks

disabling hotplug had no effect.

[Ratfink]

11 hours ago, Hillman said:

Unfortunately it does not work for me. This is confirmed by the logfiles (included) and the Virtual desktop overly showing Oculus RT for ST and OpenVR for MT.
ST: 2023-03-12 10:39:25.751 INFO    VISUALIZER (17900): LAUNCH IN VR OculusRift: OculusRift : Oculus Rift S
MT: 2023-03-12 10:41:34.732 INFO    VISUALIZER (4304): LAUNCH IN VR OpenXR: SteamVR/OpenXR : oculus

And in OpenVR I am placed at wing-height in the VR hangar and everything flickers a lot during loading.

I have a Rift S and see that line in dcs.log but with "VISUALIZER (Main): LAUNCH IN VR OpenXR: Oculus Rift S" for MT

The loading hangar page stutters and lags like crazy. I do see better fps overall in flight, but with a lot of lag and "CPU bound (Main Thread)". CPU0 is running 100%, CPU1-7 high but not max

 

[Ratfink]

If MT wants to run with OpenXR for Oculus Rift S, should I be looking to OpenXR Toolkit for making optimisations to improve performance?

As I'm only used to DCS using Oculus API directly, I have no experience with OpenXR

[Recluse]

On 3/12/2023 at 5:03 AM, BIGNEWY said:

It should work, oculus is even in the priority chain for MT with OpenXR next in line

I am not a fan of having to force parameters, in my opinion we do to much of it and it complicates matters for users who are not tech savvy. 

but good to hear its smooth for you

I can also confirm that the MT .exe launches OPEN XR by default on Quest 2.  I have been using OPEN XR, so I don't mind, but I created a test shortcut to the bin-MT/DCS.exe with NO command line parameters and my Open XR  overlay came up in game.  Overlay doesn't show up when I launch the original shortcut to bin/UPDATER.EXE

 

Hmmmm..... or is it THIS setting that is doing it in the companion app?

 

EDIT: NOPE.. I made a new shortcut to bin/DCS.exe with no command line params and it did not show the OXRTK overlay.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Recluse

[j9murphy]

@BIGNEWY Any chance we'll get a new stable version soon?  Quite the performance and feature difference between the two now (excellent work by the way!)