correct as is HAS mode | Scan cycle time & Search filter

[moggel]

In my group (DCAF, 119th FS) we specialize in Wild Weasel mission and rely on the HTS for our Hunter Killer hops. In such we try to filter the HTS classes to remove uninteresting emitters and lower the HTS scan times. With all classes active the HTS scan times are well over a minute whereas if we filter it to one or two classes the scan times are reduced to under 10 seconds - quite a difference when you're traveling at 350-400kt, trying to build SA.

However, I have seen no real difference in how fast the HTS picks up an emitter, regardless of the current filtering. This makes me think that feature is just cosmetic at this point, and is yet to be modeled. Can anyone chime in with more insight on this topic?

Edited April 29, 2023 by moggel

[Rei]

Hey,

I haven’t tried this yet, so i don’t have a track file, but in the manual it says it requires some time to actually verify the emitter. It may detect the emitter within the Scan Time on the HAD THRT page, but it would take longer to verify the emitter as the correct CLASS.

It very well may be a bug from recent updates, but I would assume it’s some sort of backend thing we can’t see.


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[Tholozor]

5 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

Well spotted, there is something strange with scan timing.

And there is no difference in scan time of one cycle regarding which FOV is selected (Wide, Center, Left, Right), with all 5 radar threat emitters selected, one cycle is 4 seconds long!

 

 

f16_HARM_scanTiming.trk 127.61 kB · 0 downloads

The topic here is the HTS, not the HARM itself.

[_SteelFalcon_]

8 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

This is the problem of HTS mode.

No. This is the problem of HAS mode (HARM As Sensor). 
HTS is not a mode, it‘s a system. 
Its data is shown on the HAD (HARM Attack Display) and on said HAD, the search time is longer the more emitter Classes you have active. By default, all classes are selected.

Deselecting unnecessary classes significantly speeds up the search for emitters in the active categories. So if you know what you look for, narrow it down as much as you can.

this principle can of course be applied to the HARM in HAS mode too

Edited May 1, 2023 by _SteelFalcon_

[skywalker22]

My bad, I meant HAS mode. And I am sure the OP is talking about same scan timing.

i did a short video of the issue we are talkin about.

[_SteelFalcon_]

No, OP refers to the effect HTS class selection has on the search timer of the HTS and if you can speed this up or if deselecting threat classes even has an effect in DCS at the moment

Edited May 1, 2023 by _SteelFalcon_

[skywalker22]

There seems to be an issue for the HAS mode, its about scan cycle(s), they seem to be broken.

Here is an example I just took:

Issues we have atm:

1. there is no difference in scan timing according to selected Field of view (Wide, Center, Left, Right)

2. if all 5 radar threat emitters are selected, the cycle time is 5 seconds (if only 1 selected, cycle is 1 second)

3. note from the video: count down starting times 13, 22, 31, 40 and 49 and counting down for 1,2,3,4 or 5 respectively

 

Question: do these reduced scan times really influence on detection time on emitters or not, specially compared to how it used to work before?

How it used to work, you can check this WAG's video from cca 2 years ago, HAS had different, much higher cycle times and changing FOV did make a difference (now it doesn't). So, which is more correct, I don't know. That's why I am creating this topic, to find out, if current state is more correct, or there are issues.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2024 by skywalker22

[Furiz]

Hey,

That is WPN page = HARM sensor page, nothing to do with HTS or HAD page.

Not sure about scan times, cant test now. Will test later.

 

 

[Moonshine]

@skywalker22

Quote

There seems to be an issue for HTS in HAS mode, its about scan cycle(s), they seem to be broken.

you can not use HTS and Harm HAS mode together. If you use HTS, you need the harm to be in a PB mode (any of them). Because:

in HAS, the HARM seeker is your sensor.

With the HTS and HARM in PB, your HTS is the sensor, not the HARM.

dont mix those two up. If you use HAS, your HTS is useless to fire the weapon, no handoff will be made. 
 

while you surely can display the HTS (HAD) while having the Harm in HAS, it does not share information with the missile, so the HAD just a fancy display of emitters that you cant do anything with.

edit: resolved

Edited May 1, 2023 by Moonshine

[skywalker22]

No HTS here, sorry, my bad. Fixed my post.

30 minutes ago, Furiz said:

Hey,

That is WPN page = HARM sensor page, nothing to do with HTS or HAD page.

Not sure about scan times, cant test now. Will test later.

 

 

Thx mate, still mixing these expressions all over the place, mainly I do it correctly, just type it incorrectly 

Do you maybe have any scan time results from the past, so you could compare the old and new ones?

[Lord Vader]

Hi @moggeland repliers

There appears to be something weird about the timers, yes.

We've marked this for internal analysis.

[Lord Vader]

Hi again @moggeland repliers.

This situation was reviewed internally and I have to explain the following:

When we originally designed the HAS, the scan times were slightly longer per unit, resulting in a longer search pattern. Matt Wagner's video at the time reflect that original logic.

Since then, the system has been adjusted to be slightly faster, especially if no station is found from the selection. 

As for the timer resetting, it's based on a algorithm, involving the maximum time that can be achieved with targets and if they're detected or not. If not, the cycle is reinitialized. If one is detected, the scanning time may increase accordingly but it doesn't take all the time specified. Again, that should be regarded as "maximum" time, not actual total time.  

Thank you for your time and for understanding.