Apple's new headset ?

[Hiob]

From my POV it is certainly not tinkered as an "Gaming VR Headset", even if it could possibly used for that. It is more like a makeshift "Holodeck" that you wear on your face. And it's totally possibel, that it will excel in that regard. But still - the price is very steep - even for enthusiasts.

[dburne]

14 minutes ago, 1BRAVO9 said:

 

 

I never said it was.

 

Did you read the thread?

Of course I read the thread.

Guess I must have misunderstood your statement?

Quote

$3500 has to be a deal breaker for the vast majority of the PC gamer market, including DCS.

It seemed to me you were referring to the PC Gamer.

[1BRAVO9]

26 minutes ago, dburne said:

Of course I read the thread.

Guess I must have misunderstood your statement?

It seemed to me you were referring to the PC Gamer.

 

The fact that Apple products are usually not conducive for gaming with a Windows based pc was addressed in previous response so I didn't feel the need to address that.

I was just stating independent of that fact, the price point is kind of high for the average user.

As far as "PC gamer", if you thought I was referring to the magazine I wasn't. It was meant in the general sense. That's why I used the lower case "g".

Since we were talking about Apple I thought it was important to distinguish between the few people that game on Apple and those that game on PC, so I used PC gamer. As in an individual.

 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, 1BRAVO9 said:

 

The fact that Apple products are usually not conducive for gaming with a Windows based pc was addressed in previous response so I didn't feel the need to address that.

I was just stating independent of that fact, the price point is kind of high for the average user.

As far as "PC gamer", if you thought I was referring to the magazine I wasn't. It was meant in the general sense. That's why I used the lower case "g".

Since we were talking about Apple I thought it was important to distinguish between the few people that game on Apple and those that game on PC, so I used PC gamer. As in an individual.

 

 

Just never mind, apparently we are on two totally different pages with this one. 

[Lange_666]

I just wonder how you people can say it's amazing without even seeing, feeling or trying it out.
Since i'm only interested in VR for flightsims (ain't gonna watch movies, presentations or use apps in it), i'm only interested on how it "would" perform in a flightsim environment at the current PC performance.  Since it can't be done, i don't really care about the Apple headset.

[Hiob]

17 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

I just wonder how you people can say it's amazing without even seeing, feeling or trying it out.
Since i'm only interested in VR for flightsims (ain't gonna watch movies, presentations or use apps in it), i'm only interested on how it "would" perform in a flightsim environment at the current PC performance.  Since it can't be done, i don't really care about the Apple headset.

It’s a shame though. The computing power within the Headpiece would certainly give a nice performance boost IF (big if) it was properly utilized by the software.

But this kind of resource sharing between an apple product and the PC realm is wishful thinking, I suppose.

[Rodeo]

12 minutes ago, Hiob said:

a nice performance boost IF (big if) it was properly utilized by the software

This is my big issue with upcoming Next-Gen headsets and use within DCS.. just because new headset does x, y and z doesn’t mean DCS will support it

[winghunter]

DCS running natively on the M2 isnt going to happen in this decade. So it would have to be streamed over WIFI which should be certainly possible with various 3rd party apps.

[freehand]

4 hours ago, 1BRAVO9 said:

 

The fact that Apple products are usually not conducive for gaming with a Windows based pc was addressed in previous response so I didn't feel the need to address that.

I was just stating independent of that fact, the price point is kind of high for the average user.

As far as "PC gamer", if you thought I was referring to the magazine I wasn't. It was meant in the general sense. That's why I used the lower case "g".

Since we were talking about Apple I thought it was important to distinguish between the few people that game on Apple and those that game on PC, so I used PC gamer. As in an individual.

 

ok calm down you been here five minutes and giving the attitude already.

[ackattacker]

2 hours ago, winghunter said:

DCS running natively on the M2 isnt going to happen in this decade. So it would have to be streamed over WIFI which should be certainly possible with various 3rd party apps.

Yeah I could see something like virtual desktop allowing PC streaming.  But the resolution would be challenging over wifi for a good experience. And early descriptions from folks who got to try it, the FOV is not particularly large. By the time this releases next year, we may see other headsets with similar resolution better optimized for PCVR with lower price tags. I don't ever see this as being a desirable headset for DCS. That said, I could be proven wrong.  If enough talented developers tackle the problem, perhaps some sort of foveated transport would allow the experience over wifi to be actually good. I'm not holding my breath though.

Edited June 6, 2023 by ackattacker

[1BRAVO9]

2 hours ago, freehand said:

ok calm down you been here five minutes and giving the attitude already.

Not at all.

Just clarifying where I was misunderstood.

Please show me in the post you quoted where I appear not to be calm or have an attitude.

I thought it was a very clear and concise explanation of our misunderstanding.

Edited June 6, 2023 by 1BRAVO9

[SkateZilla]

Does not support PC, nor will they attempt to.

[Supmua]

I personally don’t think the Apple headset is relevant when it comes to DCS, and gaming has never been Apple’s main push anyway.  At worst it won’t be compatible and at best it’d take a hack to make it work at all.  This headset, however, will likely crash other preexisting high-end XR devices including the Varjo XR3 as their current business model will be royally disrupted by superior price point, hardware software integration, and usability.  

Edited June 10, 2023 by Supmua

[Supmua]

On 6/6/2023 at 3:56 PM, winghunter said:

DCS running natively on the M2 isnt going to happen in this decade. So it would have to be streamed over WIFI which should be certainly possible with various 3rd party apps.

True with the current DCS engine.  However, check this out.  This is sort of equivalent to Proton for Steam Deck.

https://videocardz.com/newz/apple-m1-m2-systems-can-now-run-windows-games-like-as-cyberpunk-2077-diablo-4-and-hogwarts-legacy-thanks-to-its-new-emulation-software

Edited June 10, 2023 by Supmua

[edmuss]

5 hours ago, Supmua said:

 This headset, however, will likely crash other preexisting high-end XR devices including the Varjo XR3 as their current business model will be royally disrupted by superior price point, hardware software integration, and usability.  

Apart from the whole tied into Apple ecosystem which to the best of my limited knowledge, none of the design industry uses. I think varjo are safe with the enterprise customer base they have

[SharpeXB]

$3,499 is a bargain considering the original Macintosh PC sold for the equivalent of $7,400 today

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

$3,499 is a bargain considering the original Macintosh PC sold for the equivalent of $7,400 today

It’s still too high for general public, hence the suffix Pro. But I think the cost is justified even cheaper compared to other high-end XR headsets some of which require expensive yearly subscription fee.

[SharpeXB]

36 minutes ago, Supmua said:

It’s still too high for general public, hence the suffix Pro. But I think the cost is justified even cheaper compared to other high-end XR headsets some of which require expensive yearly subscription fee.

Sure but it’s funny to recall how expensive these now commonplace devices are in today’s money. Like how the first DVD players cost nearly $2,000. So you can’t judge an early release technology by its price. It may be that other HMD makers aimed too low and didn’t impress enough people with the tech. For example all the other headsets resolutions are too low to make them usefull for anything. 

Every review of that headset seems to imply that AR/VR is dead unless somehow Apple resurrects it. Perhaps that’s a reaction to how slick this device is that it suddenly makes its own market seem questionable. I didn’t read that about VR until everyone saw the Vision Pro. That’s interesting. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by SharpeXB

[kerlcat]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Sure but it’s funny to recall how expensive these now commonplace devices are in today’s money. Like how the first DVD players cost nearly $2,000. So you can’t judge an early release technology by its price. ...

 

I couldn't agree with you any more. Cutting edge technology meanwhile affordable? Wake up. It simply takes time to commercialize those advanced and expensive parts. R&D cost also has to be armotized gradually.

When people complain $3499 way too far from "affordable to common people", they didn't realize cutting edge products are for early adapters who are not common people...they could be developers, enthusiasts... Most of us would take benefit eventually after Apple proved the XR market. Wish to have a $999 of Vision non-Pro version in 2025, or Quest true-Pro version with Vision's micro-OLED... 

Ouch! A 42" LCD 1080P TV costed me $3000 in 2006... what's the price of 85" OLED today?

Edited June 11, 2023 by kerlcat

[Supmua]

2 hours ago, kerlcat said:

I couldn't agree with you any more. Cutting edge technology meanwhile affordable? Wake up. It simply takes time to commercialize those advanced and expensive parts. R&D cost also has to be armotized gradually.

When people complain $3499 way too far from "affordable to common people", they didn't realize cutting edge products are for early adapters who are not common people...they could be developers, enthusiasts... Most of us would take benefit eventually after Apple proved the XR market. Wish to have a $999 of Vision non-Pro version in 2025, or Quest true-Pro version with Vision's micro-OLED... 

Ouch! A 42" LCD 1080P TV costed me $3000 in 2006... what's the price of 85" OLED today?

 

I don't think Apple can/will make a headset that costs $999 at least not now, the high-res micro OLED panels alone likely cost that much, plus another large front panel that projects your eyes to the outside world which I'm not sure if it's OLED or not.  Add M2 and R1 chips in there plus 12 cameras (which is really over the top) and a bunch of other sensors, as well as curved glass and metal body and the cost goes way up.  May be the cost will come down eventually with mass adoption, but there's also a chance that it will flop.  Let's hope that they succeed because we need more public interest in XR/VR space to keep it afloat.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Supmua

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Well, technology-wise, everything made there seems to serve a purpose and serve it well, not exactly a waste -- the hand gesture tracking and eye tracking are both top-notch. The pass-thru mode blows all competitions away.

Of course, I see no reason I am buying it.

[Supmua]

This would’ve been a top-tier headset for DCS, which is too bad. Hand tracking is reportedly perfect with 12 cameras that can track your hands on HOTAS without looking down, and the 12ms headset latency is super low not to mention 23m pixels on OLED screens. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Supmua

[edmuss]

Can you imagine trying to drive that many pixels in DCS?

Aero is half of that at highest DFR resolution

[kerlcat]

You all said it right. Just a wish to have VisionPro-like premium & affordable VR for DCS…no controller, accurate eye tacking for DFR, superb visual, and incredible latency and so on. Then we will need 5090+ to drive that beast…

Unfortunately it would only exist in dream for a few yrs. And hope Apple could be success so more products for PCVR could benefit from same supply chain with a lot cheaper BOM cost driven by volume.

[shagrat]

Am 1.6.2023 um 04:15 schrieb MNissen:

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

It's worth noting that DCS World works perfectly on the following Mac gear:

Mac Pro 5,1 (Early 2009) - 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon - 48 GB RAM - Radeon RX 590

 

Mac OS X 10.15 - Bootcamp - Windows 10 - 2 x SSD 1TB - T16000M HOTAS - DCS World & Open Beta - 

______

The Apple Vision Pro is designed as a standalone wearable Computer, not a VR-Headset for Mac's, leave alone a Windows PC. If you watch the trailers and showcases carefully, you'll notice they do not even have a lot of real 3D applications on the Apple Vision Pro, yet (and no Store to download apps).

The main concept is to augment your environment with virtual Desktop Windows running Facetime, your Mac's office or creative suite (in a window!) and entertain yourself with movies in a virtual cinema... You may be able to mirror your Mac's desktop to a huge virtual window and play DCS in 2D on a virtual 40" display, though.