SA-342 Gazelle 2023 "FM" Update

[Mordants]

Hi I think this post is more suited to this topic since my problem only occured after the FM update.

I seem to have a unique problem with my Stream Deck and the new SA342 Gazelle module. Before the update my SA342 profiles all worked as advertised with the different variants. The settings for the Stream Deck are all ok because all other DCS modules work, both fixed wing and rotary wing.

There are the latest SA342 profiles in the saved games export module folder. The SA342 2.0 stream Deck profile version found in this forum is available on my Stream Deck

The export.log shows as no module found on line 4 with a subsequent Huey loaded up correctly from line 5.

Stream Deck comms output is inconsistent though with global connection showing activity and then next time not

Config.lua looks to be ok too, which I expected because other modules are fine.

I’m not sure what else to try having made numerous small alterations for the naming of each lua file just in case there was a syntax error but nothing seems to work.

I am open to any ideas to try and solve this and hope there is someone here who can help.

Please see attached logs and pictures which might help.  

Export.log Config.lua

[Jaguar 1-1 - Ant]

2 hours ago, Kinkkujuustovoileipä said:

 

The fighting behaviour is likely the SAS, which may be detuned in future update.

 

Thanks for your reply, i will find out what the SAS is, guessing *Something* Auto Stabilisation? can it be turned off? I am thankful you are updating this aircraft and look forward to any updates in future

3 hours ago, Kinkkujuustovoileipä said:

The pedal issue is likely due to the amount of power you are putting in - more collective power means you need more pedal to fight the torque. In an OGE hover with HOT3s loaded, you are very heavy, thus lots of power, thus lots of torque.

This makes sense, yes

3 hours ago, Kinkkujuustovoileipä said:

So, these issues should become somewhat easier soon, but it won't hold your hand

I'm still enjoying the challenge

[Rudel_chw]

5 minutes ago, Jaguar 1-1 - Ant said:

i will find out what the SAS is, guessing *Something* Auto Stabilisation? can it be turned off?

 

He is refering to a component of the Autopilot, which helps stabilize the flight controls on three axes: pitch, row and yaw ... it's on the Manual, but its description is not very helpful, better check on Chuck's Guide.

[Hiob]

18 minutes ago, Jaguar 1-1 - Ant said:

Thanks for your reply, i will find out what the SAS is, guessing *Something* Auto Stabilisation? can it be turned off? 

SAS - Stability Augmentation System.

It has three channels for pitch roll and yaw. Each can be deactivated separately, but in normal operation they should be turned on. (Switches on the bottom end of the front dash)

It is in a way connected to APs in general, in that an AP probably uses the same computer and actuators. However, the SAS on its own doesn’t do any „auto piloting“. 

A similar system can be found in almost all choppers in DCS (except the huey I think). When you turn it off the chopper usually gets a bit more reactive and agile but harder to control and fly smoothly. PIO is much more likely.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Hiob

[Kike]

I'm probably doing something wrong, but I've lost the agility of this helicopter, now it's like flying a stone, I'm probably doing something wrong, any suggestions?

 

Thx!

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, Kike said:

I'm probably doing something wrong, but I've lost the agility of this helicopter, now it's like flying a stone, I'm probably doing something wrong, any suggestions?

 

Thx!

Try with SAS-Channels on and off. Most important - don't take the old Gazelle FM as a reference.

 

[paco2002]

On 6/13/2023 at 12:21 PM, Devil 505 said:

I am experiencing the exact same thing, which sucks, because the periscope is amazing in VR and I need the pilot to keep the Helo still.  Only way I have managed to work it for the time being is using Trim for both cyclic and rudder.  Still difficult though because I cannot get it to stay in one place without it rolling on me once in auto hover.  I have tried disengaging the trim system when using the auto hover which helps a little, but then you are at the mercy of holding the aircraft nose on with the rudder while in hover without rolling it out of auto hover.  

Not a deal breaker, I want this to be like the real thing and if this is the case, then I am fine with that.  Just wanted to see if others were struggling like I was flying solo and trying to use the missiles now.

 

On 6/13/2023 at 11:04 AM, idenwen said:

I have weid problems with the new flight model. It feels great when flying medium speed but has some spots where controls are going crazy when slow or hovering.

For example: Hover, enter a slow descent and then go back to a ascend while very slowly adding power. The whole chopper moves a bit and tumbles a bit, thats ok and normal, but there are spots in the power courve where it "snaps" like on rails into place or alternates snapping violently betweeen two places about 5° from each other. A bit more power and everyting back to normal.

 

Both of you have the same issue. Moving the power fast, makes the turbine enter a freewheel state, wich basically, is like having a car in one gear, go full throttle, and full clutch at the same time. To avoid that, you need to move CAREFULLY the power on the Gazelle, that way, it wont be snappy. 

[idenwen]

1 hour ago, paco2002 said:

Both of you have the same issue. Moving the power fast,

I basically wrote the opposite

Quote

For example: Hover, enter a slow descent and then go back to a ascend while very slowly adding power. 

 

[paco2002]

1 hour ago, idenwen said:

I basically wrote the opposite

 

Add power slowlier then ;D

[Marshallman]

Just started on Gazelle after a week or two away.... My collective (Virpil) fully calibrated is showing a 25% to 90% range on the gauge and wont settle at zero nor climb to 100%.

Works perfectly with Apache, Hind, Huey, Mi8 and UH60.

Is this on list to do or am I missing something?

Regards

Nimbus

 

 

[Orbitus]

On 6/26/2023 at 5:29 AM, Hiob said:

On 6/25/2023 at 7:46 PM, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

 

Now it depends on the definition of "a lot".  I find it quite signific

 

On 6/26/2023 at 1:47 PM, YoYo said:

This is good example of start, see pedals (just a slight tilt to the right, the copter takes off without heeling):

and another:

This is a stable helicopter when taking off.

I will only add that I consider the changes in FM and the direction to be good.

 

Don't know which DCS version you're on. Could you please provide a video of you taking off this smoothly and stabilized. Thanks.

[Johnny Dioxin]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:23 AM, Marshallman said:

Just started on Gazelle after a week or two away.... My collective (Virpil) fully calibrated is showing a 25% to 90% range on the gauge and wont settle at zero nor climb to 100%.

Works perfectly with Apache, Hind, Huey, Mi8 and UH60.

Is this on list to do or am I missing something?

Regards

Nimbus

 

 

Just been flying - or trying to - online and also having collective issues. I kept switching helicopters (between Gazelles) and was only able to take off twice - and both times the collective simply died and I hit the deck. Also using Virpil HOTAS - T50 in my case. I didn't use full collective and got just a few feet in the air.

Also, was using multicrew and within seconds of taking over flight controls the helicopter just piled into the ground with a lack of power. My online buddy also had issues, but not as frequently as I did. Used two different servers.

On all other occasions the power seemed to drop as soon as I got in the aircraft and movement of the collective (which could be seen moving in the VC model) achieved nothing. I tried both manual and auto start and same thing.

I'll keep trying through the week and will try and get a track.

[heloguy]

4 hours ago, Johnny Dioxin said:

Just been flying - or trying to - online and also having collective issues. I kept switching helicopters (between Gazelles) and was only able to take off twice - and both times the collective simply died and I hit the deck. Also using Virpil HOTAS - T50 in my case. I didn't use full collective and got just a few feet in the air.

Also, was using multicrew and within seconds of taking over flight controls the helicopter just piled into the ground with a lack of power. My online buddy also had issues, but not as frequently as I did. Used two different servers.

On all other occasions the power seemed to drop as soon as I got in the aircraft and movement of the collective (which could be seen moving in the VC model) achieved nothing. I tried both manual and auto start and same thing.

I'll keep trying through the week and will try and get a track.

That certainly sounds strange.  Make sure there isn't a random control bind that's driving your engine power to idle.  This would be the "Fuel Flow Lever" bind.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Just been flying - or trying to - online and also having collective issues. I kept switching helicopters (between Gazelles) and was only able to take off twice - and both times the collective simply died and I hit the deck. Also using Virpil HOTAS - T50 in my case. I didn't use full collective and got just a few feet in the air.
Also, was using multicrew and within seconds of taking over flight controls the helicopter just piled into the ground with a lack of power. My online buddy also had issues, but not as frequently as I did. Used two different servers.
On all other occasions the power seemed to drop as soon as I got in the aircraft and movement of the collective (which could be seen moving in the VC model) achieved nothing. I tried both manual and auto start and same thing.
I'll keep trying through the week and will try and get a track.

I was trialing the gazelle pre update to updated version so the new ‘lack in power’ characteristics was very apparent for me. But they are saying not to compare the new FM to the old FM and to take 50% fuel, that it is pretty accurate So… But yes to me it does feel rather underpowered when compared to the other DCS helos esp when w/o translational lift.

[karasinicoff]

5 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

I was trialing the gazelle pre update to updated version so the new ‘lack in power’ characteristics was very apparent for me. But they are saying not to compare the new FM to the old FM and to take 50% fuel, that it is pretty accurate So… But yes to me it does feel rather underpowered when compared to the other DCS helos esp when w/o translational lift.

This module is completely broken, not flyable at all. Even all armaments are not working at this moment with some reason. What a disappointments..

[Esac_mirmidon]

I can fire "all armaments" without issues.

 

Please elaborate.

 

 

[leonsilver]

5 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

This module is completely broken, not flyable at all. Even all armaments are not working at this moment with some reason. What a disappointments..

The weapons are usable, only the Mistral is faulty, but this is not Polychop's fault. FM is a thousand times better than the old one, I really like flying with the new Gazella! But.. the FM is still WIP - don't forget that.

[Kike]

This helicopter is only about 2500 lbs of empty weight, right?... My Sa342 has 4313235234234 lbs with the latest patch.
"Ok, reduce your fuel at 50%"...not a solution.

In my case I can't access to the 100% power in the t/off or hover (they stop about the 80 or 90% of power), only with speed I can access to the 100%, this is normal in this holicopter?
The power control it's imprecise, very imprecise, and I tried to change of my joystick curves and I've the same problem.

Anyone having the same problem?

Bad for me, I'm like a child with a broken toy, but maybe I don't know how to play with him, this possibility it's on the table.

 

[leonsilver]

Here is an "interesting" video.
Unfortunately, it is not of very good quality, but the instrument that is important to us is just visible. And what is even more surprising is what the uploader (presumably the pilot) writes at the beginning of the video:

"During take-off and landing, you hardly need to use the controls, I mean the stick rudder and the pedals. There is almost no need to use the pedal, which, thanks to the fenestron, enables much more precise control."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenestron

[609_Relentov]

Similar collective issues here.  I re-bound my Virpil T50 CM3 throttle to the collective axis, but while I see the in-cockpit collective move its full range, looking at the gauge, it appears limiting to about 85-90% - I can barely get off the ground.  This after checking that my weight was below the maximum allowed weight (from the reload pop up), after reducing the fuel load, etc.

Edit - seems to be 85-90% max on the ground with full collective.  Once (barely!  ) in the air, and you pick up speed and gain some transitional lift, the helicopter starts to gain altitude (plus the gauge goes higher and you see the warning light/hear the warning beep, if still at full collective).

Edited July 5, 2023 by 609_Relentov

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Similar collective issues here.  I re-bound my Virpil T50 CM3 throttle to the collective axis, but while I see the in-cockpit collective move its full range, looking at the gauge, it appears limiting to about 90% - I can barely get off the ground.  This after checking that my weight was below the maximum allowed weight (from the reload pop up), after reducing the fuel load, etc.

Yeah requiring so much collective (and pedal) does seem rather strange.

[grim_reaper68]

On 7/4/2023 at 6:29 PM, Kike said:

This helicopter is only about 2500 lbs of empty weight, right?... My Sa342 has 4313235234234 lbs with the latest patch.
"Ok, reduce your fuel at 50%"...not a solution.

In my case I can't access to the 100% power in the t/off or hover (they stop about the 80 or 90% of power), only with speed I can access to the 100%, this is normal in this holicopter?
The power control it's imprecise, very imprecise, and I tried to change of my joystick curves and I've the same problem.

Anyone having the same problem?

Bad for me, I'm like a child with a broken toy, but maybe I don't know how to play with him, this possibility it's on the table.

 

Same for me, unable to go over 90% a hoover lift and low speed. Once over 30 kmh, I get the turbine overload alarm. All the time the power input is at 100%

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Something went wrong with update. Gazelle no longer has power. 

I can't lift off!! Go to Instant Action/Georgia/Static Tanks. Mission starts with started Gazelle. It does not have power to takeoff, or hover IGE never mind OGE. Same problem with Instant Action/Nevada/Cold Start. Empty helicopter,  40% fuel , it can't TO or hover. 

Update broke power?

[grim_reaper68]

I this topic  gulredrel told that Polychop is working to fix it.

 

[Kazputin]

On 6/11/2023 at 4:36 PM, RealDCSpilot said:

Already tried everything, instant trim should be the right choice for a FFB stick. It simply doesn't work right.

Chiming in to say I've just come on the forums to find some info about this - FFB trim is totally not working right now, either with the trimmer button or a hat. Basically it offsets the zero position of the stick, but then applies that offset to the current position. So as soon as you press the trimmer or use the hat, your stick position is doubled.

You can see this if you turn on the controls window, move the cyclic left, then apply left trim. The cyclic position moves with it.

I think for 'FFB trim mode', the current position of the stick needs to be read as an absolute value, not a relative value from the 'center'. Trimmer stores the '0' position that can then be used to calculate actual deflection. Or something like that!

Happy to try and produce a video or something/test anything that needs testing, if that's helpful.