reported MT freezes even in main menu

[crazyave]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:06 PM, AstonMartinDBS said:

Exclusively in the MT version I sometimes (randomly) have the same symptoms: Mouse lags (even in the main menu), heavy lags during flight (> 2 seconds), etc.

But the issues don't occur always - there were no issues in the last four DCS MT sessions for instance. The attached dcs.log is from the last of those four sessions.

• OS: Windows 11 Pro
• CPU: i9-13900K
• GPU: RTX 4090
• no VR (2D, resolution: 4k, G-Sync enabled, v-Sync enabled in DCS)
• other components: see signature

I run DCS on this new rig since mid May 2023 and I usually start the MT version. I'm pretty sure, that the issues appeared right after the last OB update. I didn't change the settings since likely a month.

Didn't try to deactivate HT in the BIOS/UEFI so far.

dcs.log 117.73 kB · 0 downloads list.txt 17.17 kB · 0 downloads DxDiag.txt 98.89 kB · 0 downloads

 

I have the same hardware setup and the same issue.  Random freeze loading at main menu.  Pretty much have to pull the power off my case to get my computer back when it happens.  Crazy.

[YoYo]

3 hours ago, crazyave said:

I have the same hardware setup and the same issue.  Random freeze loading at main menu.  Pretty much have to pull the power off my case to get my computer back when it happens.  Crazy.

Give HT=off till the next OB patch.

[DAZnBLAST]

So I enabled "Per P-Core Control" and "Per E-Core Control" in the BIOS which had me see an improvement in the freezes. Still not great though, sporadic 5-8 second freezes still exist, see my latest DCS log, this log was created after a deletion of the fxo and metashaders2 folders and a full DCS Repair.....

 

 

dcs.log

Edited July 14, 2023 by DAZnBLAST

[crazyave]

On 7/12/2023 at 9:45 PM, YoYo said:

Give HT=off till the next OB patch.

 

Thanks for the tip, I'm giving it a shot(I tried it in the past for hopes of performance improvement, but it did nothing at that time).  So far so good, no crashes or hangs in F10, but the issue is pretty random so it will take a while to confirm.

This issue they're having is hugely impactful, I had to pull power to my unit yesterday to recover and then my hardware got fouled up somehow and I had to completely disassemble my whole system and put it back together to get it to work again.  What the heck is in this multithread executable!  jeez!  I really hope they can figure this stuff out, I'm missing playing DCS and being forced to look at other VR games for entertainment.

[YoYo]

@Flappie & @BIGNEWY , sorry for the question ;). but any news about progress of July patch about this HT issue and Long Loading of MT version? 

Did the developers find the cause and solution? Im asking for some status information . It would be nice to know something.

[BIGNEWY]

51 minutes ago, YoYo said:

@Flappie & @BIGNEWY , sorry for the question ;). but any news about progress of July patch about this HT issue and Long Loading of MT version? 

Did the developers find the cause and solution? Im asking for some status information . It would be nice to know something.

July patch testing is in progress, I dont have a date for public at this time. 

Long load times have been reduced, hyperthreading issue some are seeing is still being investigated internally. 

[Kobymaru]

Quick update, the latest patch did NOT fix anything. Load times in MT are horrendous, every menu takes several minutes to load and somehow DCS just made my mouse and whole PC stuttery??

I'm back to the ST build for now. Not going to turn off Hyper Threading and cripple my system just to work around a bug of a game, but that's just me.

Shame to leave so much performance on the table though, MT build was very promising and performant before the 2.8.6.41363 patch.

[YoYo]

It's nice that the problem of slow loading has been solved, it's actually an improvement and its fixed, Im sure 100%.

I had HT=off for a whole month and didn't have any single problem with freezing in the menu. Installed Todays patch, I turn on finally HT and for 5 runs od DCS MT I had 2 slow action and freezes in the menu.  So I can confirm this problem isnt fixed yet and still needs some hot fix @Flappie.

When it happened 1 core had 100%, the res are sleepeing. 

From what I remember, this applies to owners of newer 12700, 13xxx series processors with HT=on (which, let me remind you, is the default option, on which DCS worked ok after all before the last 2 patches). Something has been messed up and is still causing problems with multithreading and their priorities with HT=on.

 

[Miro]

Unfortunately i must confirm... problem still exists.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Miro

[YoYo]

Completely unplayable. Another run, the same symptom again. I'm going to turn off HT. I'm attaching the log, ok, I have some mods with texturers, but with HT=off, no problem at all. The team has to keep working here to bring a new patch. Let me remind you that most people (I think) don't even know where to turn on and off HT so it's better to fix it, for real.

dcs.log dcs.log.old

[Miro]

For me even without HT is going worse than before, before today's patch without HT, i got problems only on F10 map, after today's patch everything is going messy, like with HT on.

dcs.log

[slughead]

The latest patch works fine for me regarding application launch time and jumping into a jet. It's taking 20 seconds for the main window to appear. I wasn't on the previous build due to the launch time problems so I went direct from the one before last (2.8.6.41066)  to this one. Maybe people could try going back two builds and then straight to the latest. I also remove all mods and do a repair before installing a different version. Finally, before starting DCS with a new update I clear out the metashaders2 and fxo folders in saved games. I have hyperthreading enabled.

 

[rob10]

On 7/18/2023 at 5:18 AM, BIGNEWY said:

July patch testing is in progress, I dont have a date for public at this time. 

Long load times have been reduced, hyperthreading issue some are seeing is still being investigated internally. 

 

3 hours ago, YoYo said:

Completely unplayable. Another run, the same symptom again. I'm going to turn off HT. I'm attaching the log, ok, I have some mods with texturers, but with HT=off, no problem at all. The team has to keep working here to bring a new patch. Let me remind you that most people (I think) don't even know where to turn on and off HT so it's better to fix it, for real

Pretty sure they didn't mention the HT issue being fixed in the current release.  From Bignewy's post quoted above I'd say they haven't figured out the problem yet or else they likely would have fixed it (or maybe it required further testing to make sure it didn't break something else so it didn't make this patch).

[BIGNEWY]

26 minutes ago, rob10 said:

Pretty sure they didn't mention the HT issue being fixed in the current release.  From Bignewy's post quoted above I'd say they haven't figured out the problem yet or else they likely would have fixed it (or maybe it required further testing to make sure it didn't break something else so it didn't make this patch).

correct no fix mentioned in the log. The team are still investigating. 

 

[YoYo]

9 hours ago, rob10 said:

Pretty sure they didn't mention the HT issue being fixed in the current release.  From Bignewy's post quoted above I'd say they haven't figured out the problem yet or else they likely would have fixed it (or maybe it required further testing to make sure it didn't break something else so it didn't make this patch).

Note that this was almost a week ago. A week for a programmer is a really long time, so everything could have changed (subject to change ).
The changelog doesn't include all the changes and fixes, even the main example - there is no word that "slow loading issue" has been fixed but they fixed it, so I think it's our duty (even) to report what else doesn't work. Right?

[Crazzy_rusian]

Issue with freeze is gone for me after latest patch. FPS is pretty high. (HT on) 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Crazzy_rusian

[buceador]

16 hours ago, Kobymaru said:

Quick update, the latest patch did NOT fix anything. Load times in MT are horrendous, every menu takes several minutes to load and somehow DCS just made my mouse and whole PC stuttery??

I'm back to the ST build for now. Not going to turn off Hyper Threading and cripple my system just to work around a bug of a game, but that's just me.

Shame to leave so much performance on the table though, MT build was very promising and performant before the 2.8.6.41363 patch.

This seems like it not a UNIVERSAL problem in that my 2D experience with loading times has gone from 94 seconds back down to 23.
For reference:
(12th gen intel(r) core(tm) i5-12600k 3.70 ghz / 32GB RAM / RTX3060ti)

[YoYo]

7 minutes ago, buceador said:

 from 94 seconds back down to 23.

but this topic isnt about long loading time , this is solved by current OB patch :).

[Flappie]

53 minutes ago, Crazzy_rusian said:

Issue with freeze is gone for me after latest patch. FPS is pretty high. (HT on)

Great news. What is your CPU model, please?

[YoYo]

14 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Great news. What is your CPU model, please?

He has in the signature 12700K. 

btw. as I tested yesterday with HT=on, I also had a few launches ok, but after this 30% of them were with the freezing menu problem again (better word is slide show menu, not freezing ).  Sometimes it shows up sometimes it doesn't. Now Im on HT=off again and the issue is gone.

Edited July 25, 2023 by YoYo

[Flappie]

From user Dave H "Yoda", in ED Discord (i9 13900KF

Quote

Gents,

Just a bit of feedback if it's of use, setting the process affinity to exclude CPU 0 leaving 1 through 7 running has largely eliminated the issues I was experiencing.

With this option set, within Open XR the "Turbo" option needed to be turned off.

Currently NVCP is set to "let the application decide" and I'll tweak a bit with that later.

That seems interesting since it does not involve disabling Hyperthreading. Feel free to try this solution.

[evilnate]

I was having issues with freezing even in menu, more specifically black screen VR with G2. Replaced cable, no help. Restored connection to one drive that was bugging me for password and never had a issue since. Running on windows 10.

[Kobymaru]

Looks like almost everyone here has an Intel 12th gen or 13th gen. Those have two types of cores, the faster P-Core and the slower E-Core. These have been known to cause stutters and crashes in other games as well.

Has anyone with an Intel 12th gen or 13th gen tried DCS-MT with Windows 11? I read somewhere that Win11 have better handling for these CPUs that will not be backported to Windows 10.
 

[AdrianL]

2 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

13th gen tried DCS-MT with Windows 11

I run Win 11 with an i9-13900, with HT on. Thankfully do not have any stuttering or freezing issues mentioned here. 

[YoYo]

8 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

Looks like almost everyone here has an Intel 12th gen or 13th gen. Those have two types of cores, the faster P-Core and the slower E-Core. These have been known to cause stutters and crashes in other games as well.

Has anyone with an Intel 12th gen or 13th gen tried DCS-MT with Windows 11? I read somewhere that Win11 have better handling for these CPUs that will not be backported to Windows 10.
 

 But the problem is that it was ok, and MT worked great with HT=on, ED changed a part of code 2 patches before and the issue was appeard.