Air Refuelling - update it!

[Swiss-Sim]

Hello there,

i can finally refuel my F-18 and to be honest, the physics in generally are outdated. I always wonder how DCS became such modern Sim, nice graphics, detailed aircraft and at the other side, it seems the devs just forgot something years ago to update. At firs i saw the Eurofighter Typhoon footage in DCS, where they did air refuelling, and that was something awesome. I usually played Falcon 4.0 then later BMS and then when i discovered DCS World i upgraded my PC and i love this Sim.

Today i was looking for Air Refuelling videos and i saw one from BMS, i thought, i will click on it just for fun. There is an Mirage but it use the F-16 MFDs etc. Its not a real Mirage. When you look this Video, go to Min. 2:39 and look from there the physics from the basket and even when the basket is connected, you will see the fuel coming out, like in real. I was looking like a mad dog at this video and asked me, why DCS, whyyyyy?

At 4:54 you will see after finishing, it will come gas again out, looks amazing man...

I hope, ED, you will improve that. I am even thinking about to install BMS again only for this LOL

Crazy

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Swiss-Sim

[razo+r]

They are working on it.

[Mad_Shell]

2 minutes ago, razo+r said:

They are working on it.

Do you have any citation about it? I remember them saying it was planned when they have time, and that was already years ago. It seems it's just a wishlist item, and I doubt the work has even begun on it.

[ContraStorm]

Another thing on air refueling that I have noticed is missing is the white stripes on the hose. Its just a black hose in DCS.

[rob10]

3 hours ago, Mad_Shell said:

Do you have any citation about it? I remember them saying it was planned when they have time, and that was already years ago. It seems it's just a wishlist item, and I doubt the work has even begun on it.

I can't cite exactly where they talked about it, but I also remember ED saying that it is something in the queue to be updated.  Who knows when, might be next week, might be 3 years from now, but usually if they say they intend to do it they get around to it eventually.

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Swiss-Sim said:

Hello there,

i can finally refuel my F-18 and to be honest, the physics in generally are outdated. I always wonder how DCS became such modern Sim, nice graphics, detailed aircraft and at the other side, it seems the devs just forgot something years ago to update. At firs i saw the Eurofighter Typhoon footage in DCS, where they did air refuelling, and that was something awesome. I usually played Falcon 4.0 then later BMS and then when i discovered DCS World i upgraded my PC and i love this Sim.

Today i was looking for Air Refuelling videos and i saw one from BMS, i thought, i will click on it just for fun. There is an Mirage but it use the F-16 MFDs etc. Its not a real Mirage. When you look this Video, go to Min. 2:39 and look from there the physics from the basket and even when the basket is connected, you will see the fuel coming out, like in real. I was looking like a mad dog at this video and asked me, why DCS, whyyyyy?

At 4:54 you will see after finishing, it will come gas again out, looks amazing man...

I hope, ED, you will improve that. I am even thinking about to install BMS again only for this LOL

Crazy

 

 

Besides the floppy hose the rest of the graphics look pretty awful

[AegisFX]

I agree that I'd like to see the refueling process updated/upgraded. I'm more concerned with proper communications and positioning but I absolutely love the idea of the hose, boom, or receiving probe/door being damaged and having physics too.

[MadMax-87]

When i saw the video posted above, i gave it a try. I installed bms and started the game, its pretty after 20 minutes i deinstalled it again, not worth spamming my ssd space. How in the world somebody can play bms and why? The aircraft feels like paper, come on guys, who ever promote bms, he must be mentaly ill. Sorry i dont want to be rude, but everywhere you see those bms spam, but the game is the biggest nonsense. Lol i am dying

[MAXsenna]

14 hours ago, MadMax-87 said:

When i saw the video posted above, i gave it a try. I installed bms and started the game, its pretty after 20 minutes i deinstalled it again, not worth spamming my ssd space. How in the world somebody can play bms and why? The aircraft feels like paper, come on guys, who ever promote bms, he must be mentaly ill. Sorry i dont want to be rude, but everywhere you see those bms spam, but the game is the biggest nonsense. Lol i am dying

This is exactly why we are not allowed to discuss other SIMs on this forum. You just proved why we have certain forum rules.
Calling others mentally is not rude, it's bullying, which says a lot about you.

[Germane]

Am 7.7.2023 um 20:37 schrieb Swiss-Sim:

Hello there,

i can finally refuel my F-18 and to be honest, the physics in generally are outdated. I always wonder how DCS became such modern Sim, nice graphics, detailed aircraft and at the other side, it seems the devs just forgot something years ago to update. At firs i saw the Eurofighter Typhoon footage in DCS, where they did air refuelling, and that was something awesome. I usually played Falcon 4.0 then later BMS and then when i discovered DCS World i upgraded my PC and i love this Sim.

Today i was looking for Air Refuelling videos and i saw one from BMS, i thought, i will click on it just for fun. There is an Mirage but it use the F-16 MFDs etc. Its not a real Mirage. When you look this Video, go to Min. 2:39 and look from there the physics from the basket and even when the basket is connected, you will see the fuel coming out, like in real. I was looking like a mad dog at this video and asked me, why DCS, whyyyyy?

At 4:54 you will see after finishing, it will come gas again out, looks amazing man...

I hope, ED, you will improve that. I am even thinking about to install BMS again only for this LOL

Crazy

 

 

+1

For me, this is one of the most eagerly awaitet updates.

[Mareak]

Came here just to find something about the Air to Air refueling. Thank God, that it was not just me. Yes, I agree something need to be done on the air to air refueling. make it easy, medium and hard setting or just simply make it good. I really wanted to make a long combat mission but unable to do so because of the air to air refueling. it's so damn hard and I'm just an account manager not a real pilot.

[Zebra1-1]

AAR is a much better experience in VR. Still hard, but then it's not exactly easy in real life either. This is a Sim afterall.  

[SkateZilla]

On 7/7/2023 at 3:05 PM, Mad_Shell said:

Do you have any citation about it? I remember them saying it was planned when they have time, and that was already years ago. It seems it's just a wishlist item, and I doubt the work has even begun on it.

They are likely working on the systems behind the scenes, but they are also replacing the S-3 Model, and Likely the S-3R and Systems associated with it.

[MadMax-87]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Mareak:

Came here just to find something about the Air to Air refueling. Thank God, that it was not just me. Yes, I agree something need to be done on the air to air refueling. make it easy, medium and hard setting or just simply make it good. I really wanted to make a long combat mission but unable to do so because of the air to air refueling. it's so damn hard and I'm just an account manager not a real pilot.

Well all what you need is a good throttle to be able to adjust the gas as you need, and the other thing is, just do it every day. My first time AAR was with F-16 and it is not really hard. Then with my F-18 i thought, its not possible to do... but now i can do AAR, maybe not perfect, but it works. Thats all the mathematics. You must spend time with your aircraft.

But just for you: i fly to the tanker with max. 20 KN and then i slow down to 3 knots and simply fly in formation and then i just follow the basket when near enough. And dont forget, its the same like when you fly in formation, you have to set constantly the throttle back/forward, its not like you set it on time like in a Car! And with your joystick you simply move it millimeter left/right/up/down thats ist, no trim or flaps.

If you have issues, check if your gear is calibrated, if yes, set in game settings for joystick curve "15", for the throttle dont touch anything. If you have rudder peddals check the calibration to. But dont ever set deadzone, trust me. Deadzone will kill AAR possibility, because you cant do precise movements.

Good luck

[Gunfreak]

According to the book air war in Vietnam. In a extreme case of an F4 have literally 0lb of fuel and missed the speed of the tanker and was falling behind the tanker. The boom operator. Jammed the boom home. And the boom locking  mechanism was strong enough to hold the 13 ton F4 stopped it from falling further behind. 

Now that's a nice manly boom, I want that in DCS.

[draconus]

On 7/19/2023 at 4:26 PM, Mareak said:

it's so damn hard and I'm just an account manager not a real pilot.

That's your excuse yet you still fly the military aircraft? The only mode will be realistic mode.

17 hours ago, MadMax-87 said:

If you have issues, check if your gear is calibrated, if yes, set in game settings for joystick curve "15", for the throttle dont touch anything. If you have rudder peddals check the calibration to. But dont ever set deadzone, trust me. Deadzone will kill AAR possibility, because you cant do precise movements.

I can't agree with either "no deadzones" or curves advice. Plenty of users have deadzones and no curves on their sticks and do AAR just fine, me including. There were even guys doing it with a keyboard. It's just a skill to learn - nothing more. And formation flying is kind of like in a car - you constantly make micromovements with your pedal (throttle) to keep the right distance to the other cars and so you do with the steering wheel (stick) to keep it on track.

16 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

And the boom locking  mechanism was strong enough to hold the 13 ton F4 stopped it from falling further behind. 

Well, not exactly, glinding jet still produces a lot of lift, so it wasn't holding that many tons actually.

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

That's your excuse yet you still fly the military aircraft? The only mode will be realistic mode.

I can't agree with either "no deadzones" or curves advice. Plenty of users have deadzones and no curves on their sticks and do AAR just fine, me including. There were even guys doing it with a keyboard. It's just a skill to learn - nothing more. And formation flying is kind of like in a car - you constantly make micromovements with your pedal (throttle) to keep the right distance to the other cars and so you do with the steering wheel (stick) to keep it on track.

Well, not exactly, glinding jet still produces a lot of lift, so it wasn't holding that many tons actually.

It stopped the 13 ton backwards movement. That's impressive. And not something th DCS boon does at all. In DCS the pilot does everything with no help from the boom. You have to be far more accurate in DCS then in real life.

[Zebra1-1]

It stopped the 13 ton backwards movement. That's impressive. And not something th DCS boon does at all. In DCS the pilot does everything with no help from the boom. You have to be far more accurate in DCS then in real life.

The boom doesn't lock onto an aircraft or pull it as far as I'm aware. The aircraft being fuelled sits in the wake of the tanker which I'm sure it assists with the tow and a pilot told me that you feel when you start getting slow. Not sure how that translates to fueling from a basket though.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Gunfreak]

3 hours ago, Zebra1-1 said:

The boom doesn't lock onto an aircraft or pull it as far as I'm aware. The aircraft being fuelled sits in the wake of the tanker which I'm sure it assists with the tow and a pilot told me that you feel when you start getting slow. Not sure how that translates to fueling from a basket though.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
 

Several of the pilots in the book(is a collection of first hand experiences spread over the entire air war) talk about the boom having a lock of some kind.

In one instance the refueling cover on an F4 didn't open. All emergency procedures failed to open it and the F4 was flying on vapors.  Finally the boom operator just hit the cover hard several times, finally pinching through the cover.

[SkateZilla]

9 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Several of the pilots in the book(is a collection of first hand experiences spread over the entire air war) talk about the boom having a lock of some kind.

In one instance the refueling cover on an F4 didn't open. All emergency procedures failed to open it and the F4 was flying on vapors.  Finally the boom operator just hit the cover hard several times, finally pinching through the cover.

Stories like this really shouldn't have even happened.

I get it, they are flying on vapors, but trying to ram the refueling probe through the cover, that cover could have broke off and gone into an intake, sparked and ignited jet fuel,
the list goes on.

The proper thing to do in that procedure would have been to Fly to a safe mark and ditch the aircraft.

 

As for Locks, Both he Boom and the Drogue system have Clamps that engage when the connection is made
The NATO boom, when inserted, extrudes 2 clamps from the nozzle head to hold it into the refueling receptacle.
The USN Drogue, when Probe is pushed in, auto engages clamps.

There have been incident reports of NATO Boom tankers "Towing" Aircraft by hooking up and locking the boom.

Edited July 23, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Zebra1-1]

21 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Several of the pilots in the book(is a collection of first hand experiences spread over the entire air war) talk about the boom having a lock of some kind.

In one instance the refueling cover on an F4 didn't open. All emergency procedures failed to open it and the F4 was flying on vapors.  Finally the boom operator just hit the cover hard several times, finally pinching through the cover.

 

12 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Stories like this really shouldn't have even happened.

I get it, they are flying on vapors, but trying to ram the refueling probe through the cover, that cover could have broke off and gone into an intake, sparked and ignited jet fuel,
the list goes on.

The proper thing to do in that procedure would have been to Fly to a safe mark and ditch the aircraft.

 

As for Locks, Both he Boom and the Drogue system have Clamps that engage when the connection is made
The NATO boom, when inserted, extrudes 2 clamps from the nozzle head to hold it into the refueling receptacle.
The USN Drogue, when Probe is pushed in, auto engages clamps.

There have been incident reports of NATO Boom tankers "Towing" Aircraft by hooking up and locking the boom.

 

 

Thank you. I actually read up on that yesterday after getting curious. Seems like the tow from a boom has been done on a F-111 in the past too. Very interesting. I'm curious how often the boom is used for minor adjustments at least. 

[SharpeXB]

If this was more realistic it would be a lot harder

 

[Germane]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb SharpeXB:

If this was more realistic it would be a lot harder

 

Thats really cool!

[SharpeXB]

Just now, Germane said:

Thats really cool!

Yeah some good advice too 

[ROBYMIG]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:37 PM, Swiss-Sim said:

Hello there,

i can finally refuel my F-18 and to be honest, the physics in generally are outdated. I always wonder how DCS became such modern Sim, nice graphics, detailed aircraft and at the other side, it seems the devs just forgot something years ago to update. At firs i saw the Eurofighter Typhoon footage in DCS, where they did air refuelling, and that was something awesome. I usually played Falcon 4.0 then later BMS and then when i discovered DCS World i upgraded my PC and i love this Sim.

Today i was looking for Air Refuelling videos and i saw one from BMS, i thought, i will click on it just for fun. There is an Mirage but it use the F-16 MFDs etc. Its not a real Mirage. When you look this Video, go to Min. 2:39 and look from there the physics from the basket and even when the basket is connected, you will see the fuel coming out, like in real. I was looking like a mad dog at this video and asked me, why DCS, whyyyyy?

At 4:54 you will see after finishing, it will come gas again out, looks amazing man...

I hope, ED, you will improve that. I am even thinking about to install BMS again only for this LOL

Crazy

 

 

+1